Builds Shipwreck (10 Viewers)

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I'm swinging back to the idea of a HP Dana 44 with all the goodies inside front and either a 9" or Dana 60 rear... I may even put the output on the Driver's side (flip the 300 case)... there's a deal on a 60/44 combo with 4.88s and ARBs here - and my truck my have a new home tomorrow.... which makes the deal affordable... even if not, the idea of the 60/44 combination like the ICON '40s isn't a deal breaker since I don't do rocks.
 
You're way better off with an FJ40 or FJ60 front than a dana 44. Larger ring and pinion and with some 30 spline chromoly axles and birfs the Toyota stuff is way stronger than the dana 44 offerings.
You may also want to read Medusa's thread on pirate and why you may not want to use a dana 60 with links.
 
add up the cost of longs, a locker and a gear change - the chromoly shafts are a wash - it's all the same dollars to get the same axle. I don't remember whose thread I was reading, but he did thicker wall (3 1/2" diameter 1/2" wall) low-pinion 44, added better knuckles, and had basically a 60 (using the Jeep R&P and Jana bearings) in a 44 case size and (most importantly) lower weight. He has a 140:1 ratio - and his comment was it cost the same as building a 60. But it's lighter... he's been running that since 2010, and it hasn't broken yet...(Jeep, 6.0LS, 38.5s). If I start building a heavier rig and everything else has to get heavier and more powerful. Do 60s front and a 14 rear, now you need a NV4500, and an atlas t-case. Of course, now you need a motor that has at least 400 hp to simply move it... that's a 2000# difference in weight.
I don't rock bounce, I don't need the added strength... yet still, the key is that someone else has all of it put together for a very attractive (as opposed to building it myself) price.... parts are more than what he wants - granted, I have to narrow, but that's $125/axle and an afternoon driving to Tacoma.
 
A long long time ago b4 longfields were available I was breaking birfields w/a a lockrite, left & right & once both @ the same time w/33's & a heavy foot. My only solution @ the time was to narrow a waggy low pinion 44(6 lug). I installed a ARB & 4.88's along w/36" tslsx's. I've had no problems with the 44 chunk, but do periodically break stk dana axle joints. I'm running stk axles. If I knew about HP44's back then I would have used that instead. Since longs are now available I've been looking @ going back to an upgraded FJ40 frt end, longs, big pattern knuckles, ARB, & 4.88's. I looked @ the cost of these upgrades and came to the conclusion that a HP60 would be about the same money, with a lot of upside into strengthening it, if needed. You don't need Hi HP to turn a 60 & IMO I think strength trumps the added weight. I wheel w/a guy who is running a HP60 frt & 60 rear in a yj w/the stk 4.0, auto with 40" boggers, & is a rock bouncer. I think he's running an Atlas & I'm not sure of the gear ratio, but he does drive it on the road. It's very impressive. Another friend runs a narrowed HP60, mod'd to pass side drop, with 5.38's & 38" boggers, stk injected 350 sbc, 435 trans & stk dana 300. It's very impressive too. You say you are not a "rock bouncer" but when you build a bigger rig you will atempt bigger things. I think I'd be driving to Tacoma. Have a safe trip.
 
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Axle change... I'm going a bit stronger than I originally planned... I just traded my old car trailer for a set of ford axles. Front is a high pinion 44, rear is a dana 60 - all 8 lug (which is fine since I have 8 lug wheels)... yes, I know, the pinion is on the wrong side, it won't be when I'm done since I will narrow them to '40 width plus 2"... they're also 4.56 gearing - which was kind of the bit that got me interested...
 
14 bolts are not 35 spline, they are 30 spline. However, the shafts are 1.5" in diameter. Which most likely will not fit in the FF hubs on that 60. That rear 60 has weaker axle shafts than a 70's cruiser axle does. But it is full floating.

The Front arms you have look to be stock units. The "lift" comes from drop brackets to the frame.

I hope that your old trailer was not worth much. Those axles are worth under $300 for the pair at a pick-a-part.

they can be made reasonably strong, but it'll cost $$$
 
in any case, I'm going with 30 spline anyway. I read up on doing the 35 spline and I'm not convinced I need them - the entire point, as I said before, was full floater. If I didn't do full float, I'd do 9", and who knows, the guy with the FF 9" may still come through - but I'm not stopping to wait for parts or for the "perfect parts"...

I have the lift brackets

what is a bent, rusted, 14' trailer on mobile home axles worth? I paid less than $300 for it... still, I've been to the pick-a-parts here; there are two of them... neither have the axles, and the axles I got, the rear isn't worth $100, the front is and isn't worth it - it's the 4.56 gears that are worth it to me... bluntly, it was the cheapest way to get the gear ratio I need.... and frankly, the transmission will blow up and the out put shaft on the Dana 300 will spin long before even the axles in their current state will break... ymmv, but for me, this will work just fine.

As for the front, it will be dana 60 strength in a passenger side, dana 44 case... if money were no object, this would be a LS powered, fabricated 9", atlas cased land cruiser.

As for the rear axle, I've owned 8 of these things, and on the 3 I drove for any length of time, all of them had trouble keeping bolts in the rear flange... so sure, the axle is tough, but the flat plate u-joint mount - not so much. As the first time that happened to me, I had to run across 6 lanes of rush hour traffic to retrieve the lower half.... you'll have a tough time convincing me that the LC axle is anything but scrap since they tried to kill me many more times after that first time.

you did save me looking up the diameter of the 30 spline... calibrated eyeball says it's at least 1.5".... I'll be back in a minute with a yay or nay... and before I walk down to the shop... I don't know that these shafts fit this 3rd member... I asked the kid I bought the from where he got them, and the answer wasn't "I pulled them out of those axles"
 
1.5 it is... fortunately, 30 spline axles aren't 1.5" - 35 spline are

  • Axle shaft diameters are 1.42” (32 spline) for front axles, 1.46” (32 spline) for rear axles.Spline diameter is 1.5” (35 spline) for the front and rear. The axle tube is 3.125” in diameter.
that that brings up a question... are they 30 spline or 32 spline? or is that where I got confused, using a 30 spline 14 bolt axle in a dana 60? ah well, it gives me much to google.
 
Dana 60 rear = 30 spline, 1.31" (Or 10. Spline)

14 bolt = 30 spline, 1.5" shaft.

LC = 30 spline. ( you can put the ff 60 shafts into a Toyota carrier)

Glad to hear you did not pay much for that trailer. People sometimes think they are doing well when they are not.. That was my point.


If you have had problems keeping the flange bolts right on the driveshaft, something is wrong. I've been in cruisers for a fairly long time with no issues. I even converted my front d60 to a flange. It does not loosen up at all. But to each their own..
 
Additionally, those look to be full width axles. I thought you wanted a narrower rig?
 
I'm narrowing the axles - thus splines didn't really matter since I'm replacing them anyway... the high pinion carrier is on the wrong side too.

that bullet point was a cut and paste from (IIRC) eastside differential... anyway, a paste from someone who has an interest in imparting true information as they want to sell you stuff and not have to get a return when their information is wrong.

doing well would be to buy an already done rig... just sayin'
with that said, when I finally do sell my rigs, I rarely lose money... though, again, this is my hobby, not my business - so I don't count the hours labor in that final total especially since I get a few years of enjoyment out of it before some shiny babble makes me get rid of what I built.

and

the straw that broke and sent me into this path was this - there are 2 FJ60 front differentials available here... one, the seller has this "I'll respond every couple weeks to your when can I see it request" the other is in Canada, which, while not a huge deal to go get is a pain to get across the border... this was 5 miles from my house and no cash was traded... best of all, not only did I trade a trailer that was used up, but I sold some parts and (if I want it) will get a mod-job to do on his Jeep... if I do that, my build budget will be mildly happy

and finally, I don't have an FJ40 rear axle... this '40 came with a minitruck axle that has 2.23 gears - if you want me to save it for you, I will...
 
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You are narrowing and retubing a HP D44 front? That'll cost a penny.

mini trucks never came with a 2.23 gearset. It's probably an open gearset and 4.11 or 4.56. How did you check the ratio? If you hold one side solid, and rotate the other axle shaft 720 degrees the number of times the pinion rotates will be the gear ratio. But you have to spin the shaft twice if the other side is held steady.
It's also 30 spline already. You could conceivably retube the D60 chunk using the mini axle shafts. You would not be full floating then, but you would not have c clips either, it's a dirt cheap alternative that is fairly functional.
Or just leave the mini rear axle in there. It's a stout little unit.


Obviously, you can do whatever you desire. I tend to do things the hard way, but I'm stupid like that. Dana axles, toyota axles they are all good. You just have to consider what your overall intentions are. Reading through this thread I saw you bouncing around all over the place. Better to have a solid plan and build instead of rattling around.

I'm still having a hard time believing that you bought a 4wd rig without even looking under it. "Where is the front driveshaft" would have been one of my first questions lol.

Either way, have a good time doing the work :)
 
Is that 4 door rubicon yours in the background? Have you been happy with it? About a month before buying my 40 last spring I was on a lot considering trading in my fjc for one. They look so good with a small lift and 35s. At the end of the day I just couldn't go back to a jeep since I've had such good luck with Toyotas.
I figured the 40 could be my open top. Sweet garage set up. I'm hoping to eventually have something similar to mess around and enjoy my hobbys in when I can.
 
It's my wife's car, I don't really like it - I think it's very cheaply made - but it works for what she needs and beats the hell out of the Prius and smart car she had when I met her.
What I do like about it is it is very easy to update and upgrade because of parts availability, part costs, and (since it's cheaply made) you can pull the entire interior out of it in 10 minutes - so running wires and such is pretty straight forward. I also like that I don't have to fix it, that repairs are mopar's problem (which, it hasn't had any - so that's a good thing too).

I miss an open top, I love my Hummer, but a sunroof does not equate to top removal... thus, eventually this will probably be my daily driver and my search and rescue vehicle when its done.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
wow, did that sound as bitter on your end as it does on mine? you all really do need to get over yourselves.
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Bitter, not at all. I hope others read the thread on pirate. You are moving forward now that you've conceded to make changes that others were suggesting; longer wb, different drivetrain, wider axles. You would just prefer to posture as if you've made all of these discoveries yourself, instead of taking advice. I'll leave you to your attention whoring, but was curious about what you'd decided and you have changed a lot of things from your "pirate" build.
 
SuperBuickGuy said:
I think this needs to be said (again.) I post my builds to encourage other people to go spin their wrenches, I don't pretend to know something I don't, I do know a lot, and I can smell BS a mile away. I also don't have any patience for people who offer advice, but won't (or can't, usually can't) tell me why they have their opinion, and I have even less patience for people who want me to build their car. This is my hobby, it's what I do to relax after dealing all day with type A personalities who never relax. That said, I'm every bit as capable of racing to the bottom in retorts, don't lose sight of this - I spend all day being a jerk... if you want me to bring it here, try me - or look at the "conversation" on Pirate... took them 7 pages to answer 1 question... now, they have lots of room there for their projects.
With that said, I listen to what people say and I figure it's just a piece of metal to use, so it really doesn't matter to me where it ends up. I have a general goal in mind, a list of parts I have, a list of parts that I might find, and a list of unobtainium - when the car is done, it's a combination of those parts...
thus, welcome to my build thread - if you don't like it, go away, I won't miss you... conversely, if this becomes yet another bunch of guys trying to show me what little they've got - then there's no reason for me to post here. I like MUD, but, since I don't get paid to provide anything to you folks - I'm under no obligation to post anything more.
So here's the short version, I'll keep posting as long as people stop with the snide comments and backstabbing remarks... because frankly, it makes zero difference to me if I post this build here or not.

the point of this build is a vehicle I can go to the hills in, reliable, doesn't require a bunch of tools, has decent economy, and if it breaks something, I can repair it to get it home... there it is... in short, overlanding - where you go look at the scenery, not your transmission fluid blowing across the snow from a line that came off... there's a billion ways to accomplish my goals, this is my way.
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Okay amigo.. I posted in this thread to correct some information and hopefully save you some money (and potentially stop someone else from making the same mistake later on). There were no backstabbing remarks or snide comments. Just corrections on misinformation.

I would like you to think about something tho. There are a bunch of people on here that know quite a bit about things. If you get all defensive when they try to help, then this thread will go down in flames and get moved to Chat. You are not getting paid for this, and I am not getting paid for this none of us are. It's all a bunch of people trying to help each other out. I obviously offend you in some way so I'll check out of the thread. Good luck with your build. I sincerely hope that it ends up being what you want. It's your build, have fun with it. :beer:
 
Mace said:
Okay amigo.. I posted in this thread to correct some information and hopefully save you some money (and potentially stop someone else from making the same mistake later on). There were no backstabbing remarks or snide comments. Just corrections on misinformation.

I would like you to think about something tho. There are a bunch of people on here that know quite a bit about things. If you get all defensive when they try to help, then this thread will go down in flames and get moved to Chat. You are not getting paid for this, and I am not getting paid for this none of us are. It's all a bunch of people trying to help each other out. I obviously offend you in some way so I'll check out of the thread. Good luck with your build. I sincerely hope that it ends up being what you want. It's your build, have fun with it. :beer:
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what misinformation? I traded some axles for a trailer and it was, to me, a good deal. $300 axles in Las Vegas isn't really that good of a deal when you have to ship them to Seattle. to be clear, what made me consider them was the 4.56 gears, not the dana 60 or the high pinion (because frankly that's pearls for a pig) as I'm not going up that much to clear the tires.

you guys win, I'm done posting my build here - move it to wherever you want... I'll not post another picture (and that makes this thread chat not build). I have absolutely no idea how to craft my posts about my build in a manner that doesn't run afoul of the powers that be... I give up.

On Pirate things were fine until a moderator came in and decided to tell everyone my build was boring. Then the trolls came in and felt they had carte blanche to make crap up and say pretty rude things. You just did the same thing, so excuse me if I refuse to be a party to another pissing fest. Best of all, you further authorized it by allowing Wilson to call me whoring (though, I'm sure he doesn't understand what that means by his use of the word)... yeah, here comes the trolls and you were the first one who allowed it.
 
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The first dana 44 I had narrowed I sent the axle housing to Moser Enginnering. It was a waggy frt end (60 wms to wms) & had them cut 4" out of the long side to get to a stk 40 56". They cut a 4" section out of the long side axle tube, aligned it and and to my surprise they butt welded it back together. Its been together for over 15yrs and works as it should. I also shipped them fullsize axles & had them cut them to length & respline. I think it was under $100 for narrowing & 40 to 50 bucks to cut & resplined an axle. The second HP 44 I narrowed I loped the ends of the tube off at our set length, then removed the C's off the ends we just cut off. Installed the axle housing in the vehicle, heated the C's in an oven then knocked them on to the ends of the tubes & set the caster to our desired angle & welded them on. I helped a friend on his HP44 & swapped the chuck to the passenger side. For the short side the long tube was cut to length & the C's was knocked on as previuosly described. For the long side the tube was cut some where near the chunk, then we got some DOM tube to press fit inside the cut housing tube, then we cut the previous long side tube to the proper length and adapted it to the sleeved tube. Set the caster & welded it up. FYI.
 
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