Severe weather or other safety alerts on your InReach, Zoleo, etc. (2 Viewers)

[4Berg]

Hey everyone,

For many years, I have enjoyed lurking in this community for trip inspiration and as a place to learn about new products and solutions.

So, as I am looking for people who enjoy remote adventures to test a new service I have launched, I thought I'd reach out to the community here.

Almost three years ago, my travels took me to Cape Scott Provincial Park, at the northern end of Vancouver Island, a remote area on the shores of the Pacific Ocean, where I spent a week. While there, I realized I would have had no way of getting notified of a distant earthquake and the resulting tsunami. My Garmin inReach would have allowed me to call for help in an emergency or to get a current forecast, but it couldn't alert me in the case of an immediate risk. Imagine a similar situation in an area at risk from flash flooding, forest fires or a tornado. When I got back to civilization, I tried to find a solution. Surprisingly, no one offered a notification solution using a satellite device like inReach!

So, I founded a company called Adiona Alert to provide the service I needed but couldn't find.

After more than two years of work, including testing the service over the last six months throughout North America and issuing over 2000 safety alerts, including severe weather, to our small fleet of test devices, we are beginning to invite people to join our Early Access program so they can start using the service today for free!

Given where your adventures likely take you, I thought this community would be perfect to test the service. I would be honoured if you would consider signing up for the Early Access program.

As we slowly add small groups of users, It would be great if some of you would apply for our Early Access program. You would get these potentially live-saving alerts for free. All I ask in return is to share your thoughts, suggestions, and even complaints with my team to improve the solution.

I would love you to visit our website - AdionaAlert.com, to learn more and apply for our Early Access program.

Thanks for considering this, and let me know if you have any questions or concerns.


J.S.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Very interesting and innovative. We have an inReach 66i. So your service is the inverse of the Garmin inReach SOS. So I assume you would use the Garmin mail address associated with ones inReach account?

 

[4Berg]

Very interesting and innovative. We have an inReach 66i. So your service is the inverse of the Garmin inReach SOS. So I assume you would use the Garmin mail address associated with ones inReach account?

Thank you!

Yes, in essence we turn your passive safety inReach that you would use to call for help into an active/preventative solution - we will tell you of an safety risk so you can keep your family, your rig, yourself safe!

We are not using the email address associated with your inReach for a variety of reasons. Instead, we are doing "a little magic" to use an SMS phone number associated with the inReach while we explore other options with the Garmin team. We might become more "convincing" <grin> as we get more users, but we've developed a workaround for now.

We would be happy to have you try the service!

Let me know if you have any questions.


J.S.

 

[peesalot]

I use the Inreach but only activate when I am going offgrid , usually for a month or 2 at a time, would your service automatically pick up that my Inreach is active or would I turn your service on & off like the Inreach ?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I use the Inreach but only activate when I am going offgrid , usually for a month or 2 at a time, would your service automatically pick up that my Inreach is active or would I turn your service on & off like the Inreach ?

Great question as I do the same thing.

 

[peesalot]

I assume you add your sms number to the alert list and it sends wether you are receiving or not, as far as I know my sms number does not change with suspend/activate changes, it stays the same.

 

[4Berg]

I use the Inreach but only activate when I am going offgrid , usually for a month or 2 at a time, would your service automatically pick up that my Inreach is active or would I turn your service on & off like the Inreach ?

Great question as I do the same thing.

Yes, this is a very typical use.

We continuously monitor the location reported by your device, so as soon as you turn on your device and head back out into the backcountry, we will be monitoring your location for alerts.

We have worked hard for our service to be as straightforward as possible - set it and forget it!

What currently happens when you turn your device off, put it away, etc., is that our system continues to monitor your last reported location and sends alerts to your device when they are issued. The alerts won't be delivered since your device is off and stored.

It's not the way we want to handle it in the long run but we need to work with users to understand how they want us to handle the long periods of time they don't use their device. I'd love your thoughts!

I assume you add your sms number to the alert list and it sends wether you are receiving or not, as far as I know my sms number does not change with suspend/activate changes, it stays the same.

This is one of the trickiest parts of sending alerts to inReach users (it's not an issue for users of other devices - Zoleo, Bivy, etc.)

Garmin does NOT assign a dedicated SMS phone number to each inReach. Without getting into all the technical details, they "temporarily" assign a unique SMS number to a conversation. They then re-assign that number and disconnect that conversation after an unknown period of time.

We just don't have enough experience with longer periods when a device is inactive (three months, eight months?) to know that the number won't change. But we can also handle that change when it happens.

We have quite a bit of experience with the unique numbers and have found ways to "manage" this until we can find a better solution with the Garmin team. We just don't have a lot of influence with them right now, but as our user base grows, we will continue to explore solutions with them. Between our user base and their needs and some competition, I think we will find a way in the long run.

In fairness to Garmin, while I don't necessarily agree with their decision not to assign an SMS number to each device, they have very good business reasons that go well beyond what I would have thought before we began working with them.

We look forward to working with our early users so we can find the best solution to keep you safe on your adventures.

Let me know if you have any questions.


J.S.

 

[peesalot]

?, the old ( years ) conversations are there and I just continue, that way when people get the text they know I am remote on the inreach, and they reply same thread, I like this cause I have others who contact people so it buils a bit of a address book in case of emerg and I go with same people so it handy. Is it assigning a new temp # and the people just see the main sms # as described above ? I like the way the inreach beeps to indicate new message rcvd, it has been very useful and when you text someone at home they can access all kinds of features like my wife knows where I'm at roughly on the trail and can tell when we make camp, much better than sat phone for me.

 

[4Berg]

?, the old ( years ) conversations are there and I just continue, that way when people get the text they know I am remote on the inreach, and they reply same thread, I like this cause I have others who contact people so it buils a bit of a address book in case of emerg and I go with same people so it handy. Is it assigning a new temp # and the people just see the main sms # as described above ? I like the way the inreach beeps to indicate new message rcvd, it has been very useful and when you text someone at home they can access all kinds of features like my wife knows where I'm at roughly on the trail and can tell when we make camp, much better than sat phone for me.

Yes, that’s my experience as well

The one interesting twist is that your InReach does not get assigned its own number for months or years. It’s your conversations that get a number assigned to it.

The question for us is what happens when a device is inactive for months? And when does Garmin disconnects the number and re-assigns it.

Based on our experience (and obviously yours) that doesn’t seem to be an issue. That’s why we feel confident that our approach, while not ideal, will work reliably.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

This might go to how you plan to bill and perhaps that hasn't settled yet.

Do you anticipate your service and charges will sync with Garmin's plans? In other words, what's the behavior, not with device on/off but, with subscription on/off?

For instance I have a base Freedom Suspend Plan for which I pay a yearly fee of $34.95; this is a constant yearly charge and does not include satellite connectivity by itself. This plan allows me to activate & deactivate the satellite connectivity for an additional month-to-month fee of $15.85/mo. I can stop and start these month to month charges as often as I want. I.e. without incurring an additional re-activation charge. While I am paying $15.85/mo I enjoy all the satellite communication benefits.

So, I tend to deactivate my month-to-month connectivity in the fall and reactivate it in the spring. I'm not talking about the device, I'm talking about the satellite connection plan. The device can theoretically be powered up through any plan activations and deactivations all year, 24/7/365.

So, what would your subscription do in my case when I am deactivated from the satellite but my device is turned on? Remember, I have no satellite cannectivity when I'm deactivated.

 

[Mark W]

Just what sort of "alerts" will you be providing and what is your source of information that they are based on?

Mark...

 

[4Berg]

This might go to how you plan to bill and perhaps that hasn't settled yet.

Do you anticipate your service and charges will sync with Garmin's plans? In other words, what's the behavior, not with device on/off but, with subscription on/off?

For instance I have a base Freedom Suspend Plan for which I pay a yearly fee of $34.95; this is a constant yearly charge and does not include satellite connectivity by itself. This plan allows me to activate & deactivate the satellite connectivity for an additional month-to-month fee of $15.85/mo. I can stop and start these month to month charges as often as I want. I.e. without incurring an additional re-activation charge. While I am paying $15.85/mo I enjoy all the satellite communication benefits.

So, I tend to deactivate my month-to-month connectivity in the fall and reactivate it in the spring. I'm not talking about the device, I'm talking about the satellite connection plan. The device can theoretically be powered up through any plan activations and deactivations all year, 24/7/365.

So, what would your subscription do in my case when I am deactivated from the satellite but my device is turned on? Remember, I have no satellite cannectivity when I'm deactivated.

No, we have no settled on our plan options or the price. Part of our Early Access program will allow us to understand the use of various users, the costs that we incur to deliver the service, etc. More importantly, you will help us figure out what you think is a fair value, fair price.

So sometime over the winter or early spring, we will begin having conversations with our early users to make sure we have an excellent service for a fair price, with plans that reflect their use while making sure we have a sustainbale business model.

As for your specific use case, I should have clarified that when I refer to your device being “on”, I’m really talking about satellite connectivity. We have no way of knowing if your device is on or off, but we need you device to have connectivity to monitor your location and deliver alerts - to provide the service.

Your feedback is exactly the kind of discussions we need to have with users.

I hope you will consider trying the service, and would love to discuss your expectations about possible pricing plans when we are ready (even if you decide not to sign up for our Early Access program). Let me know and I will reach out early in the new year.

J.S.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

No, we have no settled on our plan options or the price. Part of our Early Access program will allow us to understand the use of various users, the costs that we incur to deliver the service, etc. More importantly, you will help us figure out what you think is a fair value, fair price.

So sometime over the winter or early spring, we will begin having conversations with our early users to make sure we have an excellent service for a fair price, with plans that reflect their use while making sure we have a sustainbale business model.

As for your specific use case, I should have clarified that when I refer to your device being “on”, I’m really talking about satellite connectivity. We have no way of knowing if your device is on or off, but we need you device to have connectivity to monitor your location and deliver alerts - to provide the service.

Your feedback is exactly the kind of discussions we need to have with users.

I hope you will consider trying the service, and would love to discuss your expectations about possible pricing plans when we are ready (even if you decide not to sign up for our Early Access program). Let me know and I will reach out early in the new year.

J.S.

Well I'd probably try it as one of your beta testers but I deactivated from sat comm in October and will reactivate before our next trip where we might expect to be away from cell service. Even we don't know exactly when that will be.

If we go to Oregon Inlet in NC, we'll then no we won't activate as there’s good cell service. If we go to A locale like the FL everglades, we'll then yes lol!

And this is exactly why we have the Garmin plan that we do.

 

[4Berg]

Just what sort of "alerts" will you be providing and what is your source of information that they are based on?

Mark..

Excellent question Mark!

The main alerts are weather watches and warnings issued by the National Weather Service (NWS) and Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Canadian counterpart to the NWS. These alerts range from flood and winter weather watches (such as what's happening in much of the PNW right now) to severe thunderstorms or tornado warnings. In other regions, these could be flash flooding, wind warnings, frost warnings, etc.

Both agencies are also sources for tsunami warnings.

In many US regions, the NWS also distributes Avalanche warnings which we also send to our users.

In addition, we monitor various other safety alerts issued by State, Provincial, Tribal, regional or local public safety agencies that address a comprehensive range of hazards. Some examples are drinking water advisories, active shooters, chemical releases, dam failures, missing persons, dangerous animals - you name it. The key is that alerts are issued when the local agency, which has the local knowledge and jurisdiction, believes the public would benefit from being notified of a significant risk in their community.

We source the alerts from several feeds managed by various government agencies, from FEMA in the US and Public Safety Canada to other feeds like the NWS weather alert feeds.

In all cases, the information and alerting agency is curated and vetted, and the feed is secured to ensure you get trusted and reliable information.

That said, by offering an Early Access program, one of our objectives is to learn from our users what information is valuable to them and will help them stay safe in the backcountry.

We are continually reviewing the alerts we are issuing and what alerts that aren't currently available that would benefit our users. Your feedback will also inform our future development plans for other safety information we would like to offer but haven't integrated yet.

We also want to allow you to opt-in or out of certain alerts, but that's not currently available.

We are just a small (but mighty) team, so we prioritize where we spend our time.

Does that answer your question?


J.S.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I've been thinking about this as part of a larger problem of location and alerts.
I have no idea how much cooperation from Garmin you would need.
Maybe this is crazy...

If I were camping I'd of course want to know about adverse conditions of course like storms, temperature, earthquakes etc... based on my current location. But weather alerts are common.

Thinking outside the box...
How about employing AI to not just give data but analytics from information culled from many sources such as news reports, satellite images, forum postings etc...? The content of the alerts might be unpredictable but that's the point.

The way it might be presented to the user is to ask for alerts related to some problem like animal attacks.
Your back end would make the needed AI queries to see if there were any alerts to be sent based on the results.
Heck, rather than be limited to a fixed list of alert categories you could even have the user specify what conditions to test.
User would enter: "Warn me when I am about to be too far from my campsite to return by dark"
AI would reply at the appropriate time:
"If you backtrack your route you can be at your campsite by dusk. If you continue you will arrive 37 minutes after dusk"

Other example - as you move around the following alerts could be sent based on your current location:
"Your location has had <X> bear attacks in the past year, <Y> fatal"
"There are poisonous snakes in your area"
"Your location is a high malaria area"
"There have been <X> reports of car breakins in the past year at the trailhead you used"
"There have been <X> incidents of rockslides in the past 5 years on your intended route"
"There are no medical facilities within <X> miles of your location"
"The nearest hospital is <X> miles from your location <LAT,LON>"
"There is a scenic view <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"There is a <some natural wonder> <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>
"There is fresh water <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"The water near you has been shown to have high levels of cadmium"
"There has been excellent fishing recently reported at at a nearby lake/stream <LAT,LON>"

You could opt in to sharing location to find people or avoid them:
"There is a group of people nearby; do <abc> to request/share location info"

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I just thought of another...
"You are about to leave an area where firearms are permitted and about to enter an area where firearms are prohibited"

 

[4Berg]

I've been thinking about this as part of a larger problem of location and alerts.
I have no idea how much cooperation from Garmin you would need.
Maybe this is crazy...

If I were camping I'd of course want to know about adverse conditions of course like storms, temperature, earthquakes etc... based on my current location. But weather alerts are common.

Thinking outside the box...
How about employing AI to not just give data but analytics from information culled from many sources such as news reports, satellite images, forum postings etc...? The content of the alerts might be unpredictable but that's the point.

The way it might be presented to the user is to ask for alerts related to some problem like animal attacks.
Your back end would make the needed AI queries to see if there were any alerts to be sent based on the results.
Heck, rather than be limited to a fixed list of alert categories you could even have the user specify what conditions to test.
User would enter: "Warn me when I am about to be too far from my campsite to return by dark"
AI would reply at the appropriate time:
"If you backtrack your route you can be at your campsite by dusk. If you continue you will arrive 37 minutes after dusk"

Other example - as you move around the following alerts could be sent based on your current location:
"Your location has had <X> bear attacks in the past year, <Y> fatal"
"There are poisonous snakes in your area"
"Your location is a high malaria area"
"There have been <X> reports of car breakins in the past year at the trailhead you used"
"There have been <X> incidents of rockslides in the past 5 years on your intended route"
"There are no medical facilities within <X> miles of your location"
"The nearest hospital is <X> miles from your location <LAT,LON>"
"There is a scenic view <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"There is a <some natural wonder> <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>
"There is fresh water <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"The water near you has been shown to have high levels of cadmium"
"There has been excellent fishing recently reported at at a nearby lake/stream <LAT,LON>"

You could opt in to sharing location to find people or avoid them:
"There is a group of people nearby; do <abc> to request/share location info"

I just thought of another...
"You are about to leave an area where firearms are permitted and about to enter an area where firearms are prohibited"

Thanks for these ideas! I love the creativity … I will take note of these and will use your ideas as we look for future development of our solution.

This is one of the benefits of engaging with this community - you know and will think of things that we would never have thought about.

Thanks again.


J.S.

 

[Mark W]

I've been thinking about this as part of a larger problem of location and alerts.
I have no idea how much cooperation from Garmin you would need.
Maybe this is crazy...

If I were camping I'd of course want to know about adverse conditions of course like storms, temperature, earthquakes etc... based on my current location. But weather alerts are common.

Thinking outside the box...
How about employing AI to not just give data but analytics from information culled from many sources such as news reports, satellite images, forum postings etc...? The content of the alerts might be unpredictable but that's the point.

The way it might be presented to the user is to ask for alerts related to some problem like animal attacks.
Your back end would make the needed AI queries to see if there were any alerts to be sent based on the results.
Heck, rather than be limited to a fixed list of alert categories you could even have the user specify what conditions to test.
User would enter: "Warn me when I am about to be too far from my campsite to return by dark"
AI would reply at the appropriate time:
"If you backtrack your route you can be at your campsite by dusk. If you continue you will arrive 37 minutes after dusk"

Other example - as you move around the following alerts could be sent based on your current location:
"Your location has had <X> bear attacks in the past year, <Y> fatal"
"There are poisonous snakes in your area"
"Your location is a high malaria area"
"There have been <X> reports of car breakins in the past year at the trailhead you used"
"There have been <X> incidents of rockslides in the past 5 years on your intended route"
"There are no medical facilities within <X> miles of your location"
"The nearest hospital is <X> miles from your location <LAT,LON>"
"There is a scenic view <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"There is a <some natural wonder> <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>
"There is fresh water <X> miles from you <LAT,LON>"
"The water near you has been shown to have high levels of cadmium"
"There has been excellent fishing recently reported at at a nearby lake/stream <LAT,LON>"

You could opt in to sharing location to find people or avoid them:
"There is a group of people nearby; do <abc> to request/share location info"

Anytime I or any of "my guys" heads out solo up here, in a rig or afoot, we always reach out to someone within our circle and make sure that they know where we are going, when we plan to be back, when we want them to be concerned if we are not and a handful of other info as appropriate. We have taken to calling it "Nanny Duty". BUT... it is "Nanny" only in terms of them being responsible to be a basic overwatch to either come looking or set things in motion if we do not return on schedule. And with the Sat-Comms that most of us have these days, it really is a last resort type of thing for the most part.


My point? If I had some sort of electronic device that beeped and buzzed and gave me suggestions to the degree that is suggested here... I would toss it under the tires before the first river crossing.

If I NEEDED this sort of intrusive Karening... I would stay home. Or actually probably not even have any desire to be out in the field in the first place.

Yeah I know you were not suggesting ALL of this... just spit balling. I get that. But seriously, Wow! If you have to be told that there are snakes where you are going? Stay home. If you do not know that there are no medical services where you are going? Stay home. If you don't know where to find drinkable water... ya better be carrying enough in the first place. If there have been enough people fishing in a lake to pass the word along whether it is good or not... That is NOT the lake I am gonna be fishing in anyway. And telling me that I am too far from my camp or how to get back to it? If I can't figure that out myself, I've got no business being in the field.

I doubt that a service such as is proposed in this thread has much applicability to me and my world. But even if it did, the last thing I would want is some sort of over the top 24/7 AI powered app to tuck me in and make sure my milk was warm and the nightlight is turned on..

The service as suggested by the OP seems like it might be a decent tool for the more urban/suburban folks that only get out occasionally and don't have a lot of time afield under their belt and/or are not familiar with the areas they might be spending time in or how to access the various sources of info that are available to us all. But load it up too much with fluff and most of us are gonna relegate it to the "Van Life bikini butt picture taking IG Influencer crowd" (Not that I have anything against a good bikini butt pic.)

Just my two cents worth, your mileage may vary and all that other stuff.


Mark...

 

[Godwin]

But seriously, Wow! If you have to be told that there are snakes where you are going?

Conversely if there are no snakes in the area I'm likely uninterested in going.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Well I was just throwing ideas out. Knowing these things won't stop me.
Heck we camp and hunt in bear country.
Might any of them keep us from an outing? Most likely not.
Well, contaminated water if we knew about it would keep us from fishing.
The underlying thought was that you don't know what you don't know.