tmxmotorsports
SILVER Star
One of these days I need to ride out and check your place out.
Series 80 engine rebuild or swap options? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter TexasSid
- Start date
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NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
You are welcome any time, you'll be disappointed. One of those shade tree mechanic shops out in cow country that you would not want to fix your head gasket, don't ya know. 
I would think most gm mechanics could stumble through a LS swap issue and get it back on the road. It might not run fantastic, and the check engine light might be on though. I had my oil pressure switch puke oil in a small town in the south. As I searched the local parts stores for the part, I ran into some knowledgeable people that were clearly familiar with LS motors. Also, buying LS parts on marketplace has also taught just how popular the motors are. They are everywhere. Worried about being somewhere in the USA where they don't know at least a little about LS motors is like being a Meth addict worried you'll end up in a small town that has no supply if you run out. The difference is LS motors might be more popular than meth.
NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
Another thing to consider about an LS based swap is durability. Everyone concentrates on the HP an TQ numbers but these motors pull the same long miles as a Toyota 6 cyl. Oil changes, occasional new serp belt and a new set of plugs and wires once in a while keep them happy. Maybe a coil pack here and there. But I am one of those weirdos that thinks going through and replacing 8 coil packs at 250K miles is not such a bad idea.
NeverFinis
SILVER Star
100% LS Swap. I am not a fan of the 1FZ-FE. Overly complicated, under powered, some design issues, and poor fuel economy.
Parts availability is a big issue with the 1FZ-FE and it is getting worse. I ran into a issue with a failed water pump on a road trip years ago, hours from home. You can't walk into any auto parts store and buy one. The local Toyota dealership had to be persuaded to look it up in their parts catalog because it was a LX450 and it was still 3 days before they could get one in.
I am working on swapping in a L96 into my LX450. It is a well regarded motor that can easily go 300,000 to 400,000 miles with basic maintenance. It was still being put into commercial vans as late as 2020. My motor and transmission is from 2020. Parts availability is a non-issue.
As I work on the installation, I am amazed how simple the L96 is. It is simple to work on, tons of power, better fuel economy, rugged and parts are available everywhere.
Parts availability is a big issue with the 1FZ-FE and it is getting worse. I ran into a issue with a failed water pump on a road trip years ago, hours from home. You can't walk into any auto parts store and buy one. The local Toyota dealership had to be persuaded to look it up in their parts catalog because it was a LX450 and it was still 3 days before they could get one in.
I am working on swapping in a L96 into my LX450. It is a well regarded motor that can easily go 300,000 to 400,000 miles with basic maintenance. It was still being put into commercial vans as late as 2020. My motor and transmission is from 2020. Parts availability is a non-issue.
As I work on the installation, I am amazed how simple the L96 is. It is simple to work on, tons of power, better fuel economy, rugged and parts are available everywhere.
Behave yourself, or they'll make you live in Hanksville...My bottom end has been touched way too many times. That's what happens when you grow up Mormon in utah
Hey! you got something against knuckle-draggers?!?Even the "blind squirrel can find an Acorn occasionally"!
I met a few folks like that in rural Alabama. From the outside, one shop looked like a scene out of "Deliverance"! Awesome folks there with skills the Engineering Auditors didn't even have! Those big city auditors expected knuckle-dragging idiots, not skilled machinists working with bleeding-edge materials and million-dollar CNC work centers.
From the road, it looked like a livestock building. Inside, was like a Sci-Fi movie. The three guys there were as sharp as they come too!
- Thread starter
- #48
Not personally. The Big City auditors living their big city bias thought those folks were going to be uneducated inbred slack-jawed idiots married to their sister.
A bit like my boss making fun of my teammate from the Netherlands who lived in Germany for his less-than-perfect English grammar. Never mind he was fluent in French, and Flemish, with limited Italian in addition to his native German and pretty good English skills. Of course, my boss who lived in Tucson couldn't even speak 'Spanish' with the local Hispanic and Latino population that lived around him.
Hypocrites if you ask me. One of many reasons I left Tucson.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
I'd buy either the mintyest 80 you can find, do the deferred maintenance, or the nicest one you can find with a bad motor planning to rip and replace immediately.
I'm planning to LS swap if/when my motor eventually dies catastrophically (bad enough that I can't repair it economically). I've read enough that I think it is a reasonable choice. But mine is a toy, used for weekend wheeling mostly.
I agree with the sentiments posted above. Engine swapping is inevitably a hot rod project, even with motors from the same family and brand. I've only done a few engine swaps, but there is always debugging time and stuff to scratch your head on.
A lot depends upon how cleanly it is done and documented. Most I've seen have left a lot to desire there - especially with wiring. Sounds like we have some members that do it right - that's the way to go! It should look factory clean or better when complete.
I like the stock motor well enough. It isn't a powerhouse, but so far seems durable.
Parts availability can be challenging sometimes, but with 'mud and some time googling, options are out there. Parts prices are definitely a downside: some parts are exorbitantly priced. Some bits are NLA, but used parts are still available, and there is a small ecosystem of people refurbishing some key parts.
I think the biggest assets for 80 owners are this community and the FSM. There are so many times that I would be lost or stuck without the great people here, and I think of myself as a half decent shadetree mechanic.
I've found it very difficult in my area
to get anyone to work on our 20 year old rover and 30 year old cruiser. Fortunately I have a good home shop and like to work on cars. I couldn't do it otherwise. For example, my son's rover recently had a blown head gasket (I diagnosed it, but didn't have time to fix it immediately) - three shops wouldn't touch it, and the "best" 4x4 shop in the area ultimately said it needed a new engine to the tune of $17k+. I took it home and did the head gaskets with my son for under $500 and it runs like a top. I have yet to find a shop that will bother with the 80 series.
I'm planning to LS swap if/when my motor eventually dies catastrophically (bad enough that I can't repair it economically). I've read enough that I think it is a reasonable choice. But mine is a toy, used for weekend wheeling mostly.
I agree with the sentiments posted above. Engine swapping is inevitably a hot rod project, even with motors from the same family and brand. I've only done a few engine swaps, but there is always debugging time and stuff to scratch your head on.
A lot depends upon how cleanly it is done and documented. Most I've seen have left a lot to desire there - especially with wiring. Sounds like we have some members that do it right - that's the way to go! It should look factory clean or better when complete.
I like the stock motor well enough. It isn't a powerhouse, but so far seems durable.
Parts availability can be challenging sometimes, but with 'mud and some time googling, options are out there. Parts prices are definitely a downside: some parts are exorbitantly priced. Some bits are NLA, but used parts are still available, and there is a small ecosystem of people refurbishing some key parts.
I think the biggest assets for 80 owners are this community and the FSM. There are so many times that I would be lost or stuck without the great people here, and I think of myself as a half decent shadetree mechanic.
I've found it very difficult in my area
to get anyone to work on our 20 year old rover and 30 year old cruiser. Fortunately I have a good home shop and like to work on cars. I couldn't do it otherwise. For example, my son's rover recently had a blown head gasket (I diagnosed it, but didn't have time to fix it immediately) - three shops wouldn't touch it, and the "best" 4x4 shop in the area ultimately said it needed a new engine to the tune of $17k+. I took it home and did the head gaskets with my son for under $500 and it runs like a top. I have yet to find a shop that will bother with the 80 series.
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Another factor in considering an engine swap is resale value. If the truck is a forever keeper, then not a factor, but I suspect even a well done swap is going to considerably narrow the group of those who might consider buying a swapped 80 series. As they become more collectible, this is likely to become a more significant factor with potential buyers.
While the 1FZ has it's limitations, for most it's an acceptable engine. It certainly is for me. What I compare it with is my old FJ55, seen in my avatar. That 2F was pretty weak kneed, especially in the mountains. I ended up having a 350 Chevy dropped in it using an Advance Adapters (IIRC) kit. It solved a lot of the problems I had with the2F, but came with a whole new set of issues, mainly the annual throw-out bearing replacement and the havoc my heavy foot imposed on the rear pinion seal. Maybe there was a simple answer to those, but I never found it. The Midwest rust machine solved the issue of whether or not it was a keeper
While the 1FZ has it's limitations, for most it's an acceptable engine. It certainly is for me. What I compare it with is my old FJ55, seen in my avatar. That 2F was pretty weak kneed, especially in the mountains. I ended up having a 350 Chevy dropped in it using an Advance Adapters (IIRC) kit. It solved a lot of the problems I had with the2F, but came with a whole new set of issues, mainly the annual throw-out bearing replacement and the havoc my heavy foot imposed on the rear pinion seal. Maybe there was a simple answer to those, but I never found it. The Midwest rust machine solved the issue of whether or not it was a keeper
Another factor in considering an engine swap is resale value. If the truck is a forever keeper, then not a factor, but I suspect even a well done swap is going to considerably narrow the group of those who might consider buying a swapped 80 series. As they become more collectible, this is likely to become a more significant factor with potential buyers.
While the 1FZ has it's limitations, for most it's an acceptable engine. It certainly is for me. What I compare it with is my old FJ55, seen in my avatar. That 2F was pretty weak kneed, especially in the mountains. I ended up having a 350 Chevy dropped in it using an Advance Adapters (IIRC) kit. It solved a lot of the problems I had with the2F, but came with a whole new set of issues, mainly the annual throw-out bearing replacement and the havoc my heavy foot imposed on the rear pinion seal. Maybe there was a simple answer to those, but I never found it. The Midwest rust machine solved the issue of whether or not it was a keeper
From what I've seen, any quality done LS swap is likely to yield a higher price than any high mileage 80 series on BAT.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-toyota-land-cruiser-35/ and it's a freaking 91!
The 1FZ is woefully under powered for the vehicle and really makes driving the vehicle anywhere out west with mods rather unpleasant.
No, it's an indicative of their willingness to go to the effort to source parts for something they aren't familiar with.
As far as i know all engine rebuild parts are still available from Toyota.
Every mechanical part I've needed for the engine has been. Some electrical parts have been harder to find.
NeverFinis
SILVER Star
That is what I have seen. Yes, a few pristine unmolested low mile 80 series have gone for large sums but most 80 series have been used hard with a few hundred thousand miles. This latter group, with newish LS engines, easily outsells those with FZ-FE engines. It isn't even close. You can see this on the Australian LS 80 Series Facebook group where LS Swapped 80 series sell for high prices. As soon as someone posts one up for sale, they are sold immediately. There are more buyers than sellers.
The people with the few pristine unmolested low miles 80 series are losers in the game of life. Complete failure to enjoy a piece of machinery designed to go offroading. A 2UZ 80 series would probably fetch the same amount of money, heck perhaps even a bit more but that's a swap that requires a good bit more effort and most of the forum won't be able to help.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a 1FZ can easily out last a gen3/gen4 LS swap but man it's a pretty brutal driving experience once the vehicle isn't stock anymore. I really hate driving my LX450 out here in Colorado, it's misery trying to merge into traffic. LQ9/6L80e swap time it is!
So there is quite a following for the LS series engines, both here on 'Mud, and abroad. And it might be due to my ignorance on this issue, but how many times have these LS engines gone 200k+ miles, without transmission failure (4L60 etc)? In my limited experience with friends, it seems that the weak point is not in the engine, but in the transmissions. (though it could be due to inferior rebuilds). I am also on the fence about doing an LQ9 swap in the next few years. Are 4L60's, 6L80's able to last the same as the engines in stock form, or are they needed to be beefed up for longevity? Asking for a friend...
NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
Let's just be practical, a 1FZ is simply not enough engine for an 80 series to be driven with any standard of comfort. When you have to plan a pass out on the open highway it might be an indicator.
A buddy of mine was a fleet mechanic, mostly pick ups and vans, mostly GM. They were mostly GM because Ford and Dodge has nothing that can hold the miles like a Vortec 5.3 and 6.0. He regularly serviced trucks with 400-50000K miles on them.
A buddy of mine was a fleet mechanic, mostly pick ups and vans, mostly GM. They were mostly GM because Ford and Dodge has nothing that can hold the miles like a Vortec 5.3 and 6.0. He regularly serviced trucks with 400-50000K miles on them.
If I recall the 4L60 is a pretty bad transmission and shouldn't be used. The 4L80/85 was a significant improvement in the design.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
You can also bolt a LS to the 80 transmission. I think that's what the Mark's adapter kit does.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
It is all context. Where I live, the 1FZ-FE has all the power I need. No, it isn't the same power as my v8 200 series, but I don't need that power. Another example is from traveling in the middle east where I talked with a Toyota dealer in Qatar - the six cylinder was ubiquitous and he said they only rarely sell an 8 cylinder. They just don't need that much power for their terrain and use cases.
Has anyone on here went down this path of reusing the stock transmission? It seems like the stock transmission is pretty solid.
