Screwed Up Dizzy O-ring Replacement. Now cruiser has weak idle and eventually dies. (1 Viewer)

[cog97]

Evening all,

So I realized, after reading through various Dizzy O ring posts here, that I completely screwed the pooch this weekend when trying to replace my dizzy o ring..

My mistakes were that I didn't bother to adjust the crank pulley to '0', and I didn't pay attention to where the rotor/rotor rip was/is. I put it back together, tried to start it, and then found out that it had a weak idle (around 200-300 rpm) before eventually dying.

I don't want to advance the timing or do anything special to it: just get it to where it was before. Any advice on how to do so?

I *think* all's i have to do to correct it is set the pulley to '0' [sets #1 cylinder to TDC] and align the groove of the distributor housing w/the protrusion on the driven gear (which sets the rotor rip to #1??), as specified in the FSM... But wanted to make sure that it checks by you folks, here, before my bonehead tries anymore DIY maintenance without following instructions.

Thanks for ya'lls time.

v/r

Learning MUD member...

 

[ColoradoBoy]

Looks like you have the correct (FSM) instructions... Follow them and you should be golden.
Been there, done that bone head thing.
Cheers!

 

[Pascoscout]

I think "0" can also mean it is on the exhaust stroke for the #1 cylinder so might be a good idea to verify that you are at the top of the compressions stroke or you may end up 180 degrees out of time. That's why the second step is to verify alignment of the marks, but you can't see those with the valve cover on.

Not sure it would hurt anything, just wouldn't run at all. Can verify by removing a spark plug and putting a screw driver in to see if the piston is topping out when you are near the "0" mark.

 

[flintknapper]

No worry. Just bring the engine to Zero (top dead center on the COMPRESSION stroke number 1 cylinder).

Orient the distributor per the FSM and stab it STRAIGHT in don't twist it back and forth any against the friction of the O-ring.

Let us know if you have any trouble or don't understand any part of it and we will walk you through it. You'll need to set your timing after installing the dizzy also.

 

[cog97]

No worry. Just bring the engine to Zero (top dead center on the COMPRESSION stroke number 1 cylinder).

Orient the distributor per the FSM and stab it STRAIGHT in don't twist it back and forth any against the friction of the O-ring.

Let us know if you have any trouble or don't understand any part of it and we will walk you through it. You'll need to set your timing after installing the dizzy also.


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How would I ensure it is on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke, as mentioned above?

 

[cog97]

How would I ensure it is on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke, as mentioned above?

Disregard, will try the screwdriver method.

 

[flintknapper]

Disregard, will try the screwdriver method.

IF for some reason you don't hit the compression stroke (at TDC) your engine simply won't start. No big deal. Pluck the dizzy, rotate the engine 180° (bring it back around to 0 again) and you'll be on the compression stroke.

If you did no checking at all...you have a 50/50 chance.

 

[ppc]

The fact the engine ran even poorly means the distributor was in close proximity to the proper position. It may have been off one tooth either way.

While it was running the distributor can be adjusted/rotated to try to improve performance. If the limit of adjustability is reached as improved performance is observed then you will likely know if it is positioned one tooth off. The use of a timing light is ALWAYS necessary to do the final setting and is very helpful during the diagnostics.

Also keep in mind that if the battery was disconnected at any time during the repair the ECM needs time to relearn parameters. During that time it may not run ideally. Also when adjusting timing the ECM must be put in "base mode" by jumping the two appropriate terminals in the diagnostic connector.

 

[flintknapper]

The fact the engine ran even poorly means the distributor was in close proximity to the proper position. It may have been off one tooth either way.

While it was running the distributor can be adjusted/rotated to try to improve performance. If the limit of adjustability is reached as improved performance is observed then you will likely know if it is positioned one tooth off. The use of a timing light is ALWAYS necessary to do the final setting and is very helpful during the diagnostics.

Also keep in mind that if the battery was disconnected at any time during the repair the ECM needs time to relearn parameters. During that time it may not run ideally. Also when adjusting timing the ECM must be put in "base mode" by jumping the two appropriate terminals in the diagnostic connector.

^^^^

Spot on. For the purposes of getting it running he can 'tune' it by ear and response to throttle input, then put a timing light on it later if the OP doesn't have one. But yes, set the timing correctly at some point. Will need to jump these terminals in the diagnostic port.

 

[cog97]

No worry. Just bring the engine to Zero (top dead center on the COMPRESSION stroke number 1 cylinder).

Orient the distributor per the FSM and stab it STRAIGHT in don't twist it back and forth any against the friction of the O-ring.

Let us know if you have any trouble or don't understand any part of it and we will walk you through it. You'll need to set your timing after installing the dizzy also.


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I just tried this x5 times with no luck. First time when I rotated to 0, it started but died pretty quickly after, I then plucked the dizzy, rotated it 180 back to 0 again and tried it, but this time the engine turned but didn’t start. The other x3 times came out to the same result.

I honestly don’t know what I’m doing wrong, unless I’m supposed to start a little left or right of 0? Perhaps other parts of the cruiser are to blame like the battery or alternator?

 

[ppc]

If the engine started the first time then the distributor was not off 180 degrees as I stated in post #8.

 

[cog97]

If the engine started the first time then the distributor was not off 180 degrees as I stated in post #8.

Forgot to mention that I again turned it 180 for the following attempts, with the same end result. Am I Just unlucky, or is there something I should be doing that I'm missing?

If the dizzy is off 180, will the engine *turn* and not start? Or should I not hear anything at all as I turn the key?

 

[BILT4ME]

If the engine runs at all, shut it off and rotate the HB to 0 (TDC). Pull the distributor cap to see if the rotor is sort of pointing at #1 plug position on the cap.
If it is, then proceed.

If not, it should be painting at #6. If this is the case, rotate the engine ONE turn in the direction of operation back to TDC.

Once it's pointing close to #1 and you have the HB on TDC, see if the rotor needs to move CW or CCW a little bit to align perfectly with #1.

Check this with the distributor BODY in the MIDDLE of the rotational throw where the bolt tightens it in.

Pull the distributor and rotate the rotor very slightly in the direction it needs to go. Push it back in and check alignment. Once aligned, snug down the retaining boot and put everything back together.

Start it. If you disconnected the battery or pulled the EFI fuse, then it will go through a series of high/low rpm until it settles.

Then follow the FSM to set the timing with the paperclip bypass and a timing light.

 

[cog97]

If the engine runs at all, shut it off and rotate the HB to 0 (TDC). Pull the distributor cap to see if the rotor is sort of pointing at #1 plug position on the cap.
If it is, then proceed.

If not, it should be painting at #6. If this is the case, rotate the engine ONE turn in the direction of operation back to TDC.

Once it's pointing close to #1 and you have the HB on TDC, see if the rotor needs to move CW or CCW a little bit to align perfectly with #1.

Check this with the distributor BODY in the MIDDLE of the rotational throw where the bolt tightens it in.

Pull the distributor and rotate the rotor very slightly in the direction it needs to go. Push it back in and check alignment. Once aligned, snug down the retaining boot and put everything back together.

Start it. If you disconnected the battery or pulled the EFI fuse, then it will go through a series of high/low rpm until it settles.

Then follow the FSM to set the timing with the paperclip bypass and a timing light

That makes a little more sense, I'll follow these steps tomorrow after work. I think i was paying too much attention on aligning the notch with the rotor gear, and not paying enough attention on the actual rotor position with the #1 position on the cap. After I rotate the HB to 0, and I check the rotor and see that it is pointing to the #6 position, then I should remove the dizzy BEFORE I turn the HB, right? Because if not then it'll stay offset 180 degrees? To clarify the #1 position on the cap would coincide with approximately 11 oclock, as seen in this picture, correct?

 

[BILT4ME]

That makes a little more sense, I'll follow these steps tomorrow after work. I think i was paying too much attention on aligning the notch with the rotor gear, and not paying enough attention on the actual rotor position with the #1 position on the cap. To clarify the #1 position on the cap would coincide with approximately 11 oclock, as seen in this picture, correct?
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It's a bit more CCW than that. See where your cap locks onto the distributor body, then make a sharpie mark exactly where the #1 terminal is, on the BODY of the distributor. This way you can see the reference point without the cap on it.

Your visual must be straight on top of the rotor.

I used my camera on my phone to check it.

 

[cog97]

If the engine runs at all, shut it off and rotate the HB to 0 (TDC). Pull the distributor cap to see if the rotor is sort of pointing at #1 plug position on the cap.
If it is, then proceed.

If not, it should be painting at #6. If this is the case, rotate the engine ONE turn in the direction of operation back to TDC.

Once it's pointing close to #1 and you have the HB on TDC, see if the rotor needs to move CW or CCW a little bit to align perfectly with #1.

Check this with the distributor BODY in the MIDDLE of the rotational throw where the bolt tightens it in.

Pull the distributor and rotate the rotor very slightly in the direction it needs to go. Push it back in and check alignment. Once aligned, snug down the retaining boot and put everything back together.

Start it. If you disconnected the battery or pulled the EFI fuse, then it will go through a series of high/low rpm until it settles.

Then follow the FSM to set the timing with the paperclip bypass and a timing light.

I'm slightly confused on this step. If it is pointing at #6 with the HB at 0, then that would mean it is at TDC on the exhaust stroke? And therefore the timing is offset exactly 180 degrees? To correct this, should I remove the dizzy before I turn the HB 180 degrees, and then reinsert the dizzy after the full 180 rotation of the HB before moving onto the fine tuning?

 

[BILT4ME]

I'm slightly confused on this step. If it is pointing at #6 with the HB at 0, then that would mean it is at TDC on the exhaust stroke? And therefore the timing is offset exactly 180 degrees? To correct this, should I remove the dizzy before I turn the HB 180 degrees, and then reinsert the dizzy after the full 180 rotation of the HB before moving onto the fine tuning?

Does the engine run at all right now?

 

[cog97]

Does the engine run at all right now?

The engine will turn as I hold the key in position 3, but it will not start after I let go of the key. It is clear that the crankshaft is moving as it is no longer at '0' after each attempt.

 

[BILT4ME]

The engine will turn as I hold the key in position 3, but it will not start after I let go of the key. It is clear that the crankshaft is moving as it is no longer at '0' after each attempt.

If it does not run (cranking, but no start)

Take the HB to TDC. Odds are the rotor is pointing at #6. If it's NOT at #6, then you could be on either the compression or the exhaust stroke.

BTW, the screwdriver in the spark plug hole is pointless.

 

[ppc]

The starter will always turn the engine over no matter the position of the distributor. In fact you can pull the distributor completely out and the starter will crank the motor, just won't start.