Screwed Up Dizzy O-ring Replacement. Now cruiser has weak idle and eventually dies. (1 Viewer)

[BILT4ME]

I'm checking out for the night.

Otherwise, start over with FSM, pull plug #1, stuff a paper towel in the spark plug tube and it will puff it out when coming up on compression.

And. Only turn the engine by hand when doing all this. NOT the starter or you're moving too much.

 

[cog97]

The starter will always turn the engine over no matter the position of the distributor. In fact you can pull the distributor completely out and the starter will crank the motor, just won't start.

shows how much I know... which is to say, a little more than before now that I know that.

I'm checking out for the night.

Otherwise, start over with FSM, pull plug #1, stuff a paper towel in the spark plug tube and it will puff it out when coming up on compression.

And. Only turn the engine by hand when doing all this. NOT the starter or you're moving too much.

I'll try out the paper towel trick, yep I realized the screwdriver method was useless pretty soon after I posted.

Thanks much for your help, it can't be this hard, I'm just not doing it right.

v/r

Luke

 

[ppc]

@cog97 you are not unlucky but you certainly not following an orderly procedure to resolve the problem

@BILT4ME I think you are confusing the situation referring to the rotor pointing to #6 considering that the distributor has been pulled multiple times as well as the engine rotated.

Start fresh by pulling the distributor, rotate the engine so it points to TDC on the HB. Insert the distributor with the cap off so that the rotor will end up pointing to the #1 plug lead which you should have marked previously on the body of the distributor when the cap was on.. Also make sure the adjusting bolt that secures the distributor body. Don't tighten that bolt completely so that you can manually rotate the distributor through its adjustment range after each attempt at starting. If you can start the engine through that process then the motor needs to be rotated one revolution again to TDC. Pull the distributor and reposition as stated above and trying starting moving the distributor through the adjustment range.

Edit the rotor will move as the distributor/gear is inserted.

 

[cog97]

@cog97 you are not unlucky but you certainly not following an orderly procedure to resolve the problem

Not going to deny that. If I did I wouldn’t be bugging you folks.

Start fresh by pulling the distributor, rotate the engine so it points to TDC on the HB. Insert the distributor with the cap off so that the rotor will end up pointing to the #1 plug lead which you should have marked previously on the body of the distributor when the cap was on.. Also make sure the adjusting bolt that secures the distributor body. Don't tighten that bolt completely so that you can manually rotate the distributor through its adjustment range after each attempt at starting. If you can start the engine through that process then the motor needs to be rotated one revolution again to TDC. Pull the distributor and reposition as stated above and trying starting moving the distributor through the adjustment range.

Edit the rotor will move as the distributor/gear is inserted.

I think you mean, if I can’t start the engine rotate again?

 

[ppc]

Yes, no start then move the distributor and try again. Divide the adjustment range of the distributor into four positions and try each position until it starts. Bottom line the engine should start even if the position is off 10 degrees one way or another.

 

[flintknapper]

1. Make SURE the engine is at Top Dead Center on the COMPRESSION Stroke. Doesn't matter what method you use....just be sure the harmonic balancer is pointed to the zero and that the cylinder is compressing. Otherwise, you'll be 180° out and all of the following will be all for naught.

2. Use the alignment marks on the distributor. Paint them if necessary so you can see them well. Align them as in the pic below.

3. When the alignment marks are matched you will notice that your 'rotor' is oriented at roughly the 10 O'Clock position (see the white arrow in the pic below).

4. Now you are ready to 'stab' the distributor. Lubricate the O-ring on the distributor shaft so it offers the least amount of resistance. Before inserting the Dizzy....look to see that the slotted bolt hole in the body of the Dizzy is lined up in the middle of the threaded hole in the head. This will put you in a roughly neutral position (not too advanced or retarded) when the distributor seats. See pic below:

5. As the distributor gear meets the gear on the camshaft, you will feel some resistance AND the rotor will turn clockwise from the position in the pic posted above (white arrow) to approximately the position represented by the yellow arrow (leading edge of the electrical connector). The reason for this is because both gears are helical cut and when they mesh...there is movement of the rotor. When fully seated your distributor rotor should now be in the position (roughly) shown below.

6. Install the adjustment bolt and lightly tighten it....such that you can still move the distributor by hand (but not loosely). Install the distributor cap and attempt to start the engine. It SHOULD try to fire (or start) in the current position. BUT you may need to rotate the distributor a bit one direction or the other. I would suggest beginning by moving it clockwise (advancing the ignition) a small amount (placing the bolt head approximately 2/3rds the way up the slotted hole.

7. After the engine has started you will need to use a timing light to set the final ignition advance (factory setting is 3° BTDC) but engines with high mileage and timing chain stretch can benefit from some amount of advancement. If your battery has been disconnected....expect the 'idle' to be high, low, or pulsing until the ECM 'relearns'. Once you've accomplished all of this then tighten down the adjusting bolt and take it for a test drive. You can experiment with different degrees of advancement to achieve the best engine response and drive-ability.

 

[BILT4ME]

@cog97 you are not unlucky but you certainly not following an orderly procedure to resolve the problem

@BILT4ME I think you are confusing the situation referring to the rotor pointing to #6 considering that the distributor has been pulled multiple times as well as the engine rotated.

Start fresh by pulling the distributor, rotate the engine so it points to TDC on the HB. Insert the distributor with the cap off so that the rotor will end up pointing to the #1 plug lead which you should have marked previously on the body of the distributor when the cap was on.. Also make sure the adjusting bolt that secures the distributor body. Don't tighten that bolt completely so that you can manually rotate the distributor through its adjustment range after each attempt at starting. If you can start the engine through that process then the motor needs to be rotated one revolution again to TDC. Pull the distributor and reposition as stated above and trying starting moving the distributor through the adjustment range.

Edit the rotor will move as the distributor/gear is inserted.

It's about being too tired and trying to hold a cognitive thought in order.

Yes, some of what I wrote sounds like gibberish this morning.

 

[zapatius]

Make sure you're not using a timing light with the advance dialed up (my mistake, and realized after multiple tries similar to you)

 

[flintknapper]

Make sure you're not using a timing light with the advance dialed up (my mistake, and realized after multiple tries similar to you)

That was a most confusing situation. I well remember that one....but in the end you figured it out. Good job.

 

[jsloden]

This may have been mentioned and I just missed it but please watch these videos:



should be all you need.

 

[Dave 2000]

Just a thought here, the engine block inside is held at a negative signal when the engine is running. Is it possible that an air leak through the 'O' ring or another vacuum line was disturbed? This would upset the A/F ratio at idle, I know it is easy to assume the distributor is timed wrong, but might be worth looking elsewhere?

Regards

Dave

 

[BILT4ME]

Just a thought here, the engine block inside is held at a negative signal when the engine is running. Is it possible that an air leak through the 'O' ring or another vacuum line was disturbed? This would upset the A/F ratio at idle, I know it is easy to assume the distributor is timed wrong, but might be worth looking elsewhere?

Regards

Dave

Nah, he took it apart to do the O-Ring and screwed it up.

 

[Dave 2000]

Nah, he took it apart to do the O-Ring and screwed it up.

Yeh, it was only a thought, and assuming the O ring did not get damaged during the install of the distributor then for sure timing.

I have often seen a simple job become a nightmare because a pipe or wire got knocked off. LOL.

Regards

Dave

 

[cog97]

Make sure you're not using a timing light with the advance dialed up (my mistake, and realized after multiple tries similar to you)

Do you mean trying to start it with the mark already too far advanced? I’m starting it at 0 every time, not using a timing light currently. I think my mistake is I’m just constantly starting it while it’s 180 offset, not realizing that after every turn the crank is moving so I’ve lost my positioning.
What I’ll do this time around is open up the cap while setting the HB to 0 and check to see that the rotor is at ‘6’. If it was 180 off, then that HAS to mean it’s at TDC on compression. I’ll then pluck the dizzy and move the rotor to ‘1’ while keeping the HB stationary at 0.

I’ll try the timing with the timing gun after that, aim for 5 or so BFTDC, will jumper the 2 pins first.

 

[BILT4ME]

Do you mean trying to start it with the mark already too far advanced? I’m starting it at 0 every time, not using a timing light currently. I think my mistake is I’m just constantly starting it while it’s 180 offset, not realizing that after every turn the crank is moving so I’ve lost my positioning.
What I’ll do this time around is open up the cap while setting the HB to 0 and check to see that the rotor is at ‘6’. If it was 180 off, then that HAS to mean it’s at TDC on compression. I’ll then pluck the dizzy and move the rotor to ‘1’ while keeping the HB stationary at 0.

I’ll try the timing with the timing gun after that, aim for 5 or so BFTDC, will jumper the 2 pins first.

The dizzy doesn't know when the valves are coming up on the compression stroke. That can ONLY be determined with a paper towel or something in the spark plug tube that can sense the pressure building when coming up on TDC.

At this point, you MUST start at the beginning.

Follow what @flintknapper posted.

TDC is when the piston of #1 is at the top of its throw.
You may be on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
The camshafts turn 1/2 turn for every one turn of the crankshaft.
If TDC the first time does NOT produce pressure at the #1 spark plug hole, then you are on the exhaust stroke. Rotate the engine ONE turn to TDC to get the piston to the top with the valves on cylinder #1 closed (on the compression stroke)
Then worry about where the distributor rotor is pointing. At this point you are so far out of whack the distributor doesn't know which way is up.

 

[jsloden]

Do you mean trying to start it with the mark already too far advanced? I’m starting it at 0 every time, not using a timing light currently. I think my mistake is I’m just constantly starting it while it’s 180 offset, not realizing that after every turn the crank is moving so I’ve lost my positioning.
What I’ll do this time around is open up the cap while setting the HB to 0 and check to see that the rotor is at ‘6’. If it was 180 off, then that HAS to mean it’s at TDC on compression. I’ll then pluck the dizzy and move the rotor to ‘1’ while keeping the HB stationary at 0.

I’ll try the timing with the timing gun after that, aim for 5 or so BFTDC, will jumper the 2 pins first.

You are really over thinking this. Put the crank at the 0 mark, then install the dizzy and cap like it shows in the video. If it doesn’t start then you’re 180 off and you need to pull the dizzy and cap back off rotate the crank pulley one full rotation back around to the 0 mark then reassemble again like it shows in the video. IT WILL START. If it doesn’t then you’ve got other problems that aren’t related.

 

[cog97]

The dizzy doesn't know when the valves are coming up on the compression stroke. That can ONLY be determined with a paper towel or something in the spark plug tube that can sense the pressure building when coming up on TDC.

At this point, you MUST start at the beginning.

Follow what @flintknapper posted.

TDC is when the piston of #1 is at the top of its throw.
You may be on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
The camshafts turn 1/2 turn for every one turn of the crankshaft.
If TDC the first time does NOT produce pressure at the #1 spark plug hole, then you are on the exhaust stroke. Rotate the engine ONE turn to TDC to get the piston to the top with the valves on cylinder #1 closed (on the compression stroke)
Then worry about where the distributor rotor is pointing. At this point you are so far out of whack the distributor doesn't know which way is up.

On my last attempt last night I aligned the HB to “0” and put the Dizzy to “1”. Didn’t start. That should tell me that it’s 180 off right? Can I use that as my frame of reference?

 

[BILT4ME]

On my last attempt last night I aligned the HB to “0” and put the Dizzy to “1”. Didn’t start. That should tell me that it’s 180 off right? Can I use that as my frame of reference?

It's a reasonable assumption.

Rotate the engine one more time, reset the dizzy to "1" and try to start. If no start, then you have other issues as well.

That's why I keep pushing back to start at the beginning instead of using "assumptions"

 

[jsloden]

On my last attempt last night I aligned the HB to “0” and put the Dizzy to “1”. Didn’t start. That should tell me that it’s 180 off right? Can I use that as my frame of reference?

Yes, you were probably 180 out. Pull the dizzy and cap rotate the crank one full revolution back to 0. Reinsert the dizzy and cap like it shows in the video and it should start.

 

[cog97]

It's a reasonable assumption.

Rotate the engine one more time, reset the dizzy to "1" and try to start. If no start, then you have other issues as well.

That's why I keep pushing back to start at the beginning instead of using "assumptions"

Yes, I’m leaving work early to give myself more time, today. I was fumbling my 3/4/5th attempt last night in the dark and in the cold. It sucked. I’ve never had issues with it starting, ever until I touched the dizzy. Hopefully nothing else comes up.