SBC Running Hot (1 Viewer)

[toyotaspeed90]

I took today and tomorrow off from work to hopefully button up some of the outstanding stuff.... some good and some bad.

The bad. I had previously ordered a full 5 piece TRE kit for an FJ40 (LHD) from Amazon. As previously mentioned I thought I needed 4 of them, turns out I needed 3 plus the appropriate drag link to Saginaw end... no biggie.... until I went to install the drag link today. Turns out the kit that was sent to me was a RHD kit - and I have the wrong TRE/drag link piece (as in, the tapered end on the passenger rear TRE is wider in the back than front.... it should be flipped around on the left side of the axle.... RHD....).

So that seriously pissed me off since I can't steer this stupid thing out of even my garage......

On to the good... definitely made some progress on the coolers but will wait to post anything else until I have the lines cut appropriately to length and hooked up.... the one teaser pic will have to do...

On the plus side for steering..... I did manage to (after lots of swearing and annoyances) get the steering shaft support bearing installed (via fabricated bracket which bolts to the frame).

At least for now... the steering wheel feels super smooth and there's zero droopage in the shaft like there was before (and no clamp on the saginaw box end of the shaft). I was concerned about the smaller bolt which holds the bracket to the frame until I thought about the physics of it....

The shaft wants to drop down due to gravity, but the bearing is mounted so that it's pushing the shaft upwards.... it's pushing that bearing upwards against the bracket, against the frame.. so really, all the bolt has to do (since the bracket is square tubing and 3/8" steel bar) is hold the position of the bracket against the frame.. there's essentially no lateral (side to side) movement possible due to the bearing support shaft and how it was built.... I'm actually happy with the outcome....

We'll see once dirt starts to get into crevices...

 

[toyotaspeed90]

Well I got the correct TRE's from Napa (and they're actually better built than the ones I got in the kit). Those are installed and now I get to play the "align the vehicle at home" game....

The bad kit was purchased via Amazon, from a seller called "Ledvas". Be a bit aware. Although all packages were sealed (separately) the threads one 1 TRE had mild surface rust and the cotter pin was completely rusty (that package I never even opened). The TRE that accepted the drag link was for RHD - and when I reached out to the seller their first response was essentially to send back the remaining parts and they will refund the money. The second response (as I responded) was that they needed several days to "talk to their engineer." I have multiple problems with both of these responses - Parts sellers should understand that parts are almost always purchased due to a need, not necessarily a want. Offering a refund with a return doesn't resolve why the customer came to you in the first place. It may put you as a seller back at square 1, but now the customer has time (and most likely work/effort possibly money) lost. The other part I have a problem with - is if a part is specifically advertised as a 'specific model' piece, there shouldn't be discussions needed with engineers to verify the wrong part was sent. (For anyone who cares, though it was long ago... I was in the parts world for almost 3 years and was ASE Parts certified).


Off of that soap box...

Now that the truck can steer.... once I have a day that 1) I have time 2) it isn't raining 3) my son isn't here...... I'll roll it outside, flush the engine, and then get the radiator hoses connected.... but they have been trimmed to fit, just not yet installed....

Both the trans and PS coolers needed minimal cutting of the hoses to make them work in the new spot. Effectiveness of them will be reduced, I understand... but if the engine is running warmer than you want, then the trans/PS don't matter by comparison. Trying to resolve 1 thing at a time...

Electric fan hasn't been installed yet, but there is clearance for it to be installed (by the upper hose has the best clearance) as a puller on the back of the radiator, so will be doing that here very soon. Since the other radiator with the fan set as a pusher worked pretty well, I'm assuming the significantly larger crossflow radiator will work much better especially with the fan setup as a puller (where they are more efficient and flow much more air).

(I will have to post photos later as Photobucket is being a huge PITA right now)

 

[toyotaspeed90]

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

cool

 

[toyotaspeed90]

Wish I had some good progress photos to show..... all I've done is clear out under the vehicle to get it ready to roll out so I can flush the engine of the water that's in there and then connect the radiator & fill it (I'm going to be overly positive about this and actually use coolant). Tough to find time with work, shared time with my 2 yo, work out, plan a wedding, and more.

Taking Monday off to get some work done on it.... if it isn't sunny, I'll throw a WA blue sky over the back and roll it out anyways.

Speaking of - my hardtop (just top and sides) were sold - oddly enough to the GM of the Bellingham Toyota dealership who picked up a 78 FJ40 project and needs some parts... Now I have a full set of 76 doors (front/rear) and unsure what to do.... Thinking of selling the rears separately and hacking the front into 1/2 doors. I've decided that the 40 won't ever need a hardtop (and the hardtop I have isn't from my tub/frame), especially having the 80 for those cold wintery days.


On the plus side.... I did finally get some "cool s***" ordered for my FJ40 -

Metaltech Jackson roll cage kit
Extra set of overhead bars (may use them to build a console of sorts for overhead)
Hip guards
Bolt Kit
Metaltech slider kit

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

excellent. my goal with mine is soft top most times. When I started wheeling in college (yeah the 80s!) my FJ40 had a soft top and that's it. The only time I was cold was at highway speeds - which, given where I lived at the time (Walla Walla), was an exceedingly rare occurence

 

[toyotaspeed90]

yeah, friend has a 68 that he normally has a soft top on.... and when it gets nice, pulls that for the Bikini top. Been in his without the soft top and ~45* outside on the freeway (and he doesn't drive slow)....

I've got a new besttop bikini for it and that will suffice for me. I rarely get cold.

 

[Captn Conch]

Interesting, I thought mine was running hot a couple of decades ago when we lived in Austin tx,( triple digit daily temps for a month there!!) It was running over 200 with stock LC radiator, actually was in the running range of a 350. Now I truely don't remember why but I spent $300+ on a Man A Fre radiator and and I don't even like dealing with Man A Fre.. But after years Cruisering from the Colorado High country to down here in year round friggin hot and humid South Florida It hasn't been a problem. But like they say good shroud fan close to radiator and should be good to go.

 

[sggoat]

put an aluminum rad in the truck and it will shed corrosion products thoughout the cooling circuit.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

put an aluminum rad in the truck and it will shed corrosion products thoughout the cooling circuit.

Must be why every 80's, 90's and early 2000's Toyota sold factory with a cast block and aluminum radiator never make it past 30k miles because of this.

So far vehicles I've owned with factory cast blocks and factory aluminum radiators are:
1986 Toyota 4 Runner 22RE
1985 Toyota Corolla SR5 (AE86) 4afe
1985 Toyota MR2 (red/black) 4age
1986 Toyota MR2 (black) 4age
1987 Toyota MR2 (silver, then black) 4agze
1987 Toyota MR2 (silver) 4age, 7age
1985 Toyota MR2 (silver/black) 4age
1986 Toyota MR2 (red) 4age, 5sfe
1986 Toyota MR2 (white)
1986 Toyota MR2 (sherwood) 4age/AT
(there's some MR2's I don't even remember that didn't make the list)
1990 Toyota Corolla GTSR5 (silver) 4afe, 4age
1990 Geo Prizm GSI (red) 4age
1994 Toyota Tercel (blue) 4EE
2004 Lexus IS300 5sp (thundercould) 2jzge
1988 Toyota Corolla Alltrac AE95 (many colors) 4afe

1994 Ford Escort
1995 Ford Explorer XLT Control Trac
1986 Ford F150 351W (though unsure if the radiator I replaced, which was alum, was orig)

I know there's cars I'm missing......

Vehicles I've owned with a cast engine block and originally had a brass radiator:
My FJ40

I think it's fair to say that it's safe to run an aluminum radiator....

The downside of an aluminum radiator is that you can't really repair it....


Now - at this point I'd rather have a stock FJ40 with stock F motor and brass radiator... but that isn't the hand I dealt myself and isn't the hand I'm trying to play.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

Hooray, finally had time to push it outside and flush the engine, then got the hoses connected.

The lower hose was.... fun.... the special chrome cap for the stainless hose didn't fit over the silicone adapter at the Flowkooler pump.... but meh.

I'll try to get it filled (mind you after work I also got a charger on the ae95 and the pieces to a custom built in desk I'm building sanded and stained) here tomorrow or this weekend...

 

[toyotaspeed90]

got the fan mounted.... then realized I only had 3 of the 4 needed "ties"....

went to work on some wiring, and one of the things I want to do is add some plug "junctions" so that I can plug portions of the harness in/out if wanting to, for instance, pull the engine. Turns out I only had 1 left, and it was a 6 wire (was wanting to rewire things for the bib/front area.... needing at least 8 wires....)

Ran to some stores, got some stuff.

Filled the radiator (and for anyone who doesn't have one.... consider getting a tool similar to this... it uses a compressor to put the system under negative pressure... which helps identify leaks.... but then when the valve is opened to the coolant, will fill the system in a matter of minutes without air bubbles, without running the vehicle):

Pushed it outside, let it run a bit.... I wasn't watching, was cleaning the garage or something..... then decided maybe I should plug the radiator fan in..... The temp at that point was probably 195-200 or so.... plugged the fan in as a puller..... and as it continued to idle (has a high idle), with a 180 stat, it sat at just a hair over 190. Pretty happy with that - I know it isn't under load just sitting there.... but at the same time, the only air moving through the radiator is via fan. Probably idled another 10 min or so.

The engine does run a bit.... rough. It could be a mild cam, I guess, but... I thought it may have a swapped couple of plugs, but after verifying direction and firing order, all seems to be correct. Might be time to pull the plugs and take a look - it could be a compression issue or it could be running too rich (and that would also not help the overheating).


On the plus side, I heard from Metal Tech.....

I ordered a Jackson Roll Cage kit, an extra set of overhead bars, hip guards, bolt kit, and their sliders for a 40..... since they're just a state south (and where I live the price to ship was going to be unnecessarily expensive) John offered to bring the pieces up to Seattle (as he has family there) and I would meet him there to get them. Above and beyond...

 

[toyotaspeed90]

I was curious and thought I'd pull the plugs.

I got to #1 and #3 before I got annoyed and put it back together. There's a problem. #1 is black, damp, and smells of fuel (this is after sitting for at least several days in the garage). #3 is grey'ish and dry.

I have 4 options at this point....

1) Leave it as is after swapping plugs, get other things buttoned up, watch for any other issues
2) Watch for another SBC to swap in (since I want TBI, this may be the better option)
3) Watch for a wrecked 80 series and do bad things to the 40.... I like the idea of Toyota parts... I know them better, easier for *me* to work on, and would keep the FJ40 at least some sort of "F" still... Yes, it would be more work, but at this point.....
4) Fiance and I are getting a late 80's Suburban from her family. There is some sentiment there. We aren't sure exactly the condition and whether we want to keep it or not yet. I've been told it's up to me whether we keep or part out, but I think it could also be a great tow rig. I may watch for a BBC with a carb to swap and steal the SBC/TBI from it for the 40....


As much as I hate to say it.... for now I'll do #1..... think about #2.... #4 will show up and the Fiance won't want me to part it out and/or if I do decide to part it out, I'll realize I have no way to get the body to the scrappers and it will be too much trouble than it's worth.... and #3 is a pipe dream, and may only come true if someone runs into my 80 to take it out of commission...


(There's actually an option 5, and as much as a friend wants me to do this and throw an M90 or M120 onto it........ which is find something cheap with a running EFI 4.3L V6.... but then losing the V8 and the original purpose of losing the F motor is lost upon me... which wasn't my decision, but.... it would place the front of the engine far enough back that I could run whatever fan I want and never have cooling issues)

 

[toyotaspeed90]

I was curious so I did a compression test on #1 and #3 for 'fun'. 110 and 120 psi with the throttle all the way open and the engine was warm. Was reading about SBC's and those numbers are considered "low" but not tragic. Considering my 1fzfe has upwards of 180psi across all cylinders and 300k miles with the same tester... I would say it's pretty tragic.

I idled it yesterday and it got up to 220*. The radiator, pump, and fan are doing a great job.... I think it's running wrong... between certain cylinders I'm measuring almost a 300* variance (yes, variance) in exhaust tube temps.... the middle passenger side being much hotter than #1.

Scouring craigslist for a TBI rig with a bad trans, wrecked (or whatever).... I hate the carb as I have no idea what I'm doing and every attempt to "tune" it, by the book, seems to not work on this engine. Idle doesn't move much, vacuum doesn't change with turning the fuel springs, and I can't even time the stupid thing as it doesn't have a pointer. Since at this point I'm planning a swap of sorts, I'm just going to proceed with what I have and if I kill it, so be it.

The cage building will hopefully commence on Sunday (with the OE-look section first). It appears they've updated the back plates of the cage from their photos - where they depict 4 separate plates that mount to the tub, they now have 1 large plate that matches their frame tie plate.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

Sometimes it's the simple things that male you feel stupid.

The fan, as a puller, didn't feel right. It was moving air, but not as much as it should.

I ignored it... because that would mean ripping out those mounting ties that were just put in, to verify fan direction and CFM.

After a less automotive inclined, but engineer, saw the fan, he thought it would probably work best with the leading edge of the S blade leading the direction of flow, which it wasn't doing wired as a puller.

Pulled the fan off and staring back at me was the spacer I put on the blade so it would fit right as a puller.

Haven't remounted it yet, but there's a huge difference in air flow now.....

 

[toyotaspeed90]

And more stupid things..... or things that make me feel old.

I didn't think there was a timing pointer because I couldn't see it. Visibility is almost nil where the pointer should be. Bought an aftermarket 'adjustable' timing pointer that bolts to the timing cover.

Removed the PS belt and upper bolts to gain access.... started to feel for the bolts and found.... the timing pointer.

The reason this makes me feel old - is because the "scraping" of the paint on the pointer where I would want to time it (and light up under the light) is definitely something I would do (and now recall doing).... but I didn't remember doing that at all.

Back together and I can just *barely* see the pointer at all.

Go to time it - and this is why I say nothing about this truck is easy or as easy as it should be.

Can't see the timing marker on the balancer. I feel old, I get my glasses..... still nothing. Shut it off and try to find what the mark would look like - maybe it's just really small and I can't see it through other nicks/aging marks of the balancer.

Find it- it's very obvious, an indentation the width of the balancer, and painted white.

OK-..... start it back up..... see NOTHING.... rotate dizzy either way..... nothing.....

Poking around, I find the marker right around 180 out.

So I either somehow have a balancer that is right around 180 out (don't want to say exactly as I can't actually time to check that) from another vehicle.... the balancer portion has slipped almot exactly 180 out..... or.... some idiot (an old friend or someone in his family) somehow managed to install the chain/cam 180 out. Not a huge deal if that's the case, since it's just mechanical... just makes it a pain in the ass to time.

Now I get to find TDC (which I wish was as easy as a 4V import...) to make new marks to time.

I think timing is a huge part of my 'overheating problem' as of now. I've read that basically it won't run with the dizzy at 180 out... so just rotating the dizzy isn't an option....


Before this timing fiasco - I did drive it around the neighborhood with the new radiator and fan setup..... it took a long time for it to even reach the 190 range, and when it did, it didn't move much. It did at one point get to about 200, but again I haven't driven it around all that much.

Another test I did - was at (has a high) idle, I kept the fan off and pushed the temp to about 220 or 230 (I don't remember), then kicked the fan on..... slowly but surely, the needle moved downwards. Tells me the system is able to move the heat out without the truck moving, so that makes me happy at least.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

This is what makes this specific truck a pain in the butt.

Engine was purchased (in good running condition) from a friend - hell, I even drove the truck once.

Anyways.... turns out said friend installed the crank 180 off from the cam for the compression stroke (I checked, the mark is 180 off).

Went to try and make a new mark - I don't have room.

Tried to pull the crank pulley.... I don't have room for a puller (and it's way too tight to come off).

So now I have to pull the radiator.... again. At that point I may as well pull the damn pulley, water pump, and fix the damn chain.

Other people's mistakes.....

 

[toyotaspeed90]

I went the fast way, marked the crank pulley 180 out.... got it timed, and drove it around the same neighborhood the same amount..... the only hitch is sometimes it has a bit more of an issue starting (almost as if spark is firing and stopping the engine dead from cranking) now, which it didn't have before.

However, I let it idle and get to just around 190 and the gauge hovered just above 190. I don't know if everything is in fact resolved or not - however it seems far better than it has been.

Time to concentrate on other things.