Rosie the Riveter Build. (2 Viewers)

[GTSSportCoupe]

No black or white smoke. Tire pressure is good, I kept an eye on that regularly on the drive down. Breaks aren't dragging (I can easily roll it by hand). The fluid in the transmission transfer case and both diffs is all new Redline. Mt90 in the trans/transfer case and shockproof in the diffs.

The developing theory is that the injector pump is having trouble pulling fuel through the raycor and is running lean. That would explain the lack of power but not the massive fuel consumption. It is also a naturally aspirated four cylinder diesel, there isn't going to be a lot of get up and go. Tons of torque yes but not a lot of speed. Also our top speed is about 80kph, down hill, with the wind at our backs.


I would love to test the injectors. I did the timing twice to make 100% sure that it was right as far as timing it to the crank and camshaft. There is a little bit of adjustability in the pump (you can rotate in relation to the motor). It may be off there. There is almost zero smoke when the truck is running, even when it starts cold.

the only thing I can think of would be timing or the injector spray.

I'm not that familiar with the inline pumps like your 3B has, but I know with the rotary pumps, even when the timing gear (or belt on some) is all setup right, the pump still needs to be timed on the engine. Like a distributor in a gasoline car. The rotary pumps use a dial gauge indicator that gets mounted on the pump. The timing is really critical. If your engine starts easy and there is little smoke, it could be that your timing is too far advanced. Does the motor sound pretty rattly? Too advanced will be fighting the piston on it's way up and thus give worse economy.

Just let me know what works for you as far as testing your injectors go. If they need a rebuild, that is relatively simple too. As long as you can source some new Denso nozzles ok. Did mine a few months ago and it worked out well.

 

[stevebradford]

All 4 injectors can have all the tips of the needles broken off and are just dribbling into the cylinders and still get better mileage. I like your earlier theory of not enough air flow. What does you intake and air cleaner ducting look like ? the fact you arnt putting out white or excessive black smoke sounds like your running well.

 

[stevebradford]

For a interesting read This posted by Greg_b in diesel tech


There's been a lot of questions over the years about diesel smoke, and what the different colors mean. There have been some good data and input from different members.

Maybe the mods can look at diesel smoke FAQ.

Here is the main data from the NZ link, without the hyperlinks. I think it jives with what some of the more experienced and knowledgeable folks have mentioned. What do ya'll think.


SMOKE COLOUR

Basically there are 3 types of smoke emitted from a diesel engine: black, blue and white.

Black smoke:

Black smoke is the most common emitted from diesel engines and indicates incomplete combustion of the fuel. Black smoke causes can vary widely and include ..
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Dirty or worn fuel injectors
· Over fuelling
· Faulty turbocharger, or turbo lag
· Faulty or dirty exhaust gas recycling (EGR) system
· Incorrect valve clearance
· Incorrect fuel to air ratio
· Dirty or restricted air cleaner systems
· Over loading the engine
· Poor fuel quality
· Cool operating temperatures
· High altitude operation
· Excessive carbon build-up in combustion and exhaust spaces

Black smoke can occur across the entire operating range, but is usually worst under full power, or during the lag before the turbocharger boosts air supply to match the fuel usage such as in the early stages of acceleration and during gear changes. Moderate turbo lag smoke is acceptable; otherwise black smoke should be hardly visible in a correctly running engine.

Blue smoke:

Blue smoke is caused by engine lubricating oil burning. The oil can enter the combustion chamber from several sources including:

· Worn valve guides, or seals
· Cylinder &/or piston ring wear
· Cylinder glaze
· Piston ring sticking
· Incorrect grade of oil .. too thin and getting past rings, or valves guides
· Fuel dilution of the oil, making it too thin.

Blue smoke is often evident at cold start, which can reflect reduced oil control due to carbon fouling deposits around the piston rings and/or cylinder glaze. Blue smoke should not be evident at any stage.
An engine may burn oil without the evidence of blue smoke, because good compression burns oil quite cleanly, however, it is not acceptable for any new engine, or engine in good internal condition to burn large amounts of lubricating oil.

White smoke:

White smoke is caused by raw, un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include:
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Defective fuel injectors
· Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze. When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.
Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

 

[seapotato]

It's strange, most things I can think of that would cause such s***ty mileage would also cause smoke.

Does it idle ok? Diaphragm can cause some things, tho again, usually with smoke.

Do you have a pyro? The exhaust temps will tell you a lot.


You didn't forget to connect your return line did you? (Kidding. ..)

 

[too tall]

I think that engine didn't like what you did to it when you painted it. It is doing all it can to warrant removal in order to alleviate the embarrassment of looking the way you made it look. Maybe you should try a 2f or a v8? at those numbers you'd be in better shape with either one.

 

[Diesel Cruiserman]

Had a problem years ago converting a fj to BJ as the lift pump did not like the fuel line running from one side up the truck up over the fire wall and to fuel filter. I re routed the fuel lines and kept them low until they hit the fuel filter and it helped out a great deal.

We did Jays 2H, we used a piece of injector tube cut to FSM specified length, its pretty easy and quick with two guys. After timing and the injectors rebuilt the 2H sounded a lot more like a cummins and did have very good power.

Good luck, looks like you guys had a great trip

 

[LittleJohn]

Update. I have a new running theory. On the drive down we were driving slowly because we couldn't go fast, ergo we were trying to go faster. I think that we were really working the motor, especially with the barn like aerodynamics that the 40 series. Add to that the roof bags adding another 2-3ft of square face to the rig. I know that the faster you go you burn exponentially more fuel. I'm starting to wonder if that was all it was. In order to go those last 10mph we were burning WAY more fuel. As is I'm going to do another test between fill ups around town to test and see.

This is a generic graph NOT FOR A 3B and will explain the concept better than I can. Notice the difference in fuel used between 1200-1400-rpm vs 3000-3200. Same rpm jump but a way bigger expenditure of fuel/energy.

For a interesting read This posted by Greg_b in diesel tech


There's been a lot of questions over the years about diesel smoke, and what the different colors mean. There have been some good data and input from different members.

Maybe the mods can look at diesel smoke FAQ.

Here is the main data from the NZ link, without the hyperlinks. I think it jives with what some of the more experienced and knowledgeable folks have mentioned. What do ya'll think.


SMOKE COLOUR

Basically there are 3 types of smoke emitted from a diesel engine: black, blue and white.

Black smoke:

Black smoke is the most common emitted from diesel engines and indicates incomplete combustion of the fuel. Black smoke causes can vary widely and include ..
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Dirty or worn fuel injectors
· Over fuelling
· Faulty turbocharger, or turbo lag
· Faulty or dirty exhaust gas recycling (EGR) system
· Incorrect valve clearance
· Incorrect fuel to air ratio
· Dirty or restricted air cleaner systems
· Over loading the engine
· Poor fuel quality
· Cool operating temperatures
· High altitude operation
· Excessive carbon build-up in combustion and exhaust spaces

Black smoke can occur across the entire operating range, but is usually worst under full power, or during the lag before the turbocharger boosts air supply to match the fuel usage such as in the early stages of acceleration and during gear changes. Moderate turbo lag smoke is acceptable; otherwise black smoke should be hardly visible in a correctly running engine.

Blue smoke:

Blue smoke is caused by engine lubricating oil burning. The oil can enter the combustion chamber from several sources including:

· Worn valve guides, or seals
· Cylinder &/or piston ring wear
· Cylinder glaze
· Piston ring sticking
· Incorrect grade of oil .. too thin and getting past rings, or valves guides
· Fuel dilution of the oil, making it too thin.

Blue smoke is often evident at cold start, which can reflect reduced oil control due to carbon fouling deposits around the piston rings and/or cylinder glaze. Blue smoke should not be evident at any stage.
An engine may burn oil without the evidence of blue smoke, because good compression burns oil quite cleanly, however, it is not acceptable for any new engine, or engine in good internal condition to burn large amounts of lubricating oil.

White smoke:

White smoke is caused by raw, un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include:
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Defective fuel injectors
· Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze. When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.
Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

Its nice to see all of that packed into one space. usually you need to root around to find all of that.

It's strange, most things I can think of that would cause such s***ty mileage would also cause smoke.

Does it idle ok? Diaphragm can cause some things, tho again, usually with smoke.

Do you have a pyro? The exhaust temps will tell you a lot.


You didn't forget to connect your return line did you? (Kidding. ..)

It idles well if a little low and rattles/shakes a fair bit but I have been told that the 3b does that.
I don't have a pyro. Well I do but was waiting to till we turbo it to install it.

I think that engine didn't like what you did to it when you painted it. It is doing all it can to warrant removal in order to alleviate the embarrassment of looking the way you made it look. Maybe you should try a 2f or a v8? at those numbers you'd be in better shape with either one.

First things first. If I was going put something else in it would be a Cummins or a small Cat, but I think your lack of taste is clouding your judgement and making you say crazy things like swap a diesel out for a gasoline... I have some first aid experience if you need me to take a look at your head. Don't worry anything I find amiss would remain in Doctor patient confidentiality.

 

[LittleJohn]

Had a problem years ago converting a fj to BJ as the lift pump did not like the fuel line running from one side up the truck up over the fire wall and to fuel filter. I re routed the fuel lines and kept them low until they hit the fuel filter and it helped out a great deal.

We did Jays 2H, we used a piece of injector tube cut to FSM specified length, its pretty easy and quick with two guys. After timing and the injectors rebuilt the 2H sounded a lot more like a cummins and did have very good power.

Good luck, looks like you guys had a great trip

From the get go we took the fuel lines out and reoriented them to the same side as the injector pump.

 

[Diesel Cruiserman]

I would not be surprised about your theory, bread box running down the highway fully loaded with bigger tires equals not great fuel milage. People expect VW milage out of this box on wheels and then add RTT, brick gets bigger and pushes more air.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Update. I have a new running theory. On the drive down we were driving slowly because we couldn't go fast, ergo we were trying to go faster. I think that we were really working the motor, especially with the barn like aerodynamics that the 40 series. Add to that the roof bags adding another 2-3ft of square face to the rig. I know that the faster you go you burn exponentially more fuel. I'm starting to wonder if that was all it was. In order to go those last 10mph we were burning WAY more fuel. As is I'm going to do another test between fill ups around town to test and see.

I think I have to disagree. There are 60 series running around with much bigger tires/lift/load/air resistance that get far better fuel economy than you were getting.

Your lack of power is a good hint that there is something not right as well. Yes 3B are gutless, but should not be as bad as you were describing. Burning lots of fuel, but not getting much power points to inefficiencies somewhere. I still think injection timing could be an issue. Perhaps advanced too much.

I think you need to get technical with the engine and go through the fuel system per the manual. Start with your injection timing (page EM-23 - page 32) of the manual:

Manual is here if you don't have it: http://repairmanual.free.fr/_engine_manual_3B_13BT.pdf

 

[stevebradford]

Sometime in 1979 the fj40 Diffs changed from 4.11 to 3.70... Most of us with the 3.70 can do 100k without burning that much fuel even loaded pulling a trailer

Info on what diffs you have by vin code
TLC FAQ - 9.1 Axle Codes

 

[Toshi38]

I put my fuel numbers here fairly religiously... (for a bit) Andy (Toyota Land Cruiser) | Fuelly

Note that they're 20% out due to gearing...

 

[too tall]

First things first. If I was going put something else in it would be a Cummins or a small Cat, but I think your lack of taste is clouding your judgement and making you say crazy things like swap a diesel out for a gasoline... I have some first aid experience if you need me to take a look at your head. Don't worry anything I find amiss would remain in Doctor patient confidentiality.[/QUOTE]

If your medical experience or practice is anything like your mechanical ability, I would be hesitant to accept any help from you. As bad as my mental state may be. That cruiser is now in a state that would make the spirits of the old Japanese men who built that vehicle in the first place with pride, Cry. Lack of Taste? Looking introspectively is a difficult thing to do with any objectivity. I was merely providing an objective point of view.

 

[LittleJohn]

With the help of GSB15 we may have found the problem. I'm going to confirm that that is what is wrong before saying for sure because to be honest it's so simple I'm embarrassed. More to come on this later.

Sometime in 1979 the fj40 Diffs changed from 4.11 to 3.70... Most of us with the 3.70 can do 100k without burning that much fuel even loaded pulling a trailer

Info on what diffs you have by vin code
TLC FAQ - 9.1 Axle Codes

I looked into it and I have 3.70

 

[LittleJohn]

First things first. If I was going put something else in it would be a Cummins or a small Cat, but I think your lack of taste is clouding your judgement and making you say crazy things like swap a diesel out for a gasoline... I have some first aid experience if you need me to take a look at your head. Don't worry anything I find amiss would remain in Doctor patient confidentiality.

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to, I was just playing. Hard to tell over typing. No offence meant.

 

[Toshi38]

With the help of GSB15 we may have found the problem. I'm going to confirm that that is what is wrong before saying for sure because to be honest it's so simple I'm embarrassed. More to come on this later.

I looked into it and I have 3.70

Didn't connect a return line?

 

[seapotato]

With the help of GSB15 we may have found the problem. I'm going to confirm that that is what is wrong before saying for sure because to be honest it's so simple I'm embarrassed. More to come on this later.




I looked into it and I have 3.70

C'mon fess up...you won't be the only one to pull something boneheaded.

Had more than a few myself. ..

 

[Diesel Cruiserman]

I like secrets..lets keep this one going.. tortures those who need to know..

 

[LittleJohn]

MOUHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!! I'll let you guys know what it was when I get it fixed. This way I'm forcing my hand.

 

[franken60]

I think I have to disagree. There are 60 series running around with much bigger tires/lift/load/air resistance that get far better fuel economy than you were getting.

that would be me, 6300lbs, 3b, 4speed, 37's on steel wheels, rooftop tent, still get 13-14L/100km