Ron Davis vrs TOYOTA OEM radiator

[lacresta]

I have a 93 FZJ80 223k stock no motor mods, 35"tires re geared to 4.88, dont tow anything.. have not noticed any cooling problems so far. wondering at 3 times the cost of OEM is the Ron Davis worth the extra money and is there any better cooling with it over stock?
not a daily driver used mostly for running in deserts and high altitude mountains.
thnaks.

 

[deltapine1]

Highest Quality Radiator

Don't hate the player. :cool:

forum.ih8mud.com

Yes they perform better than stock. Yes they are expensive. There is apparently a Leiland brand that is less expensive but I have no knowledge of how they last or perform.

I pull a modified M100 camper trailer and can say in 100 plus degree temps the Ron Davis does not heat soak climbing hills. The OEM variants in copper/brass (3FE) and the plastic/aluminum (1FZE-FE) created a situation where my temps at 70 mph would climb and I backed out of the throttle to keep the temps from climbing and then it took 15 minutes for the temps to level back to normal once past the grade.

 

[jpoole]

I've not run a Ron Davis and don't know the specs to say if it has more or less capacity but in my experience the stock plastic/aluminum in my '97 has had sufficient capacity. I'm not sure why you were seeing heat soaking @deltapine1 but I've towed our camper with a full load of people/gear thousands of miles, including in the SouthWest, Rockies and Appalachian mountains and I haven't seen what looked like heat soaking. There are a lot of factors beyond the radiator itself that could be different between your 80s temps and mine.

Our camper is probably a little over 3k lbs when loaded up, we often have a rooftop box mounted on the 80 along with all of the gear that my wife and I, plus our two kids need including bikes for all of us, etc. The 80 has a newish, modified/tuned blue hub clutch, clean coolant, foamed radiator, fan shroud, good tune, etc. and is running 33" tires and about 1" of lift.

In my experience, once the coolant system is otherwise baselined, tuning the fan clutch has had the biggest impact on how hot the 80 coolant temps run when towing, at speed and otherwise. When experimenting I have noticed that temps will climb at higher speeds (65+ mph) if the fan clutch isn't setup right. I think that radiator airflow from the 80 moving through the air actually starts to drop at higher speeds and the fan becomes increasingly important for maintaining airflow through the radiator as you drive faster.

 

[Marco Lau]

Yes, the Ron Davis cools better than than the TYC or Koyo. Liland is about 1/3 of the RD price and cools just as good. I have put in CSF, a Ron Davis, a Liland, and a TYC unit for 93+ in my 01 3F-E now and i have to say Liland and RD cools better than the rest given the same parameters.

 

[lacresta]

Yes, the Ron Davis cools better than than the TYC or Koyo. Liland is about 1/3 of the RD price and cools just as good. I have put in CSF, a Ron Davis, a Liland, and a TYC unit for 93+ in my 01 3F-E now and i have to say Liland and RD cools better than the rest given the same parameters.

did you have install issues with the Liland.. did everything fit for all the stock mounting.

 

[Marco Lau]

The fit and finish for the Liland radiator is every bit as good as the Ron Davis. No install fitment issues, just a factory bolt on. Just to remember that the alum. radiator is thicker than factory unit. the Liland /RD is about 2.7" thick vs the OEM plastic unit is about 2". You lost about 3/4" clearance between the mechanical fan and back of the radiator. Fine for overland and mall crawl. But i would caution if you do any rock crawling where the engine and tranny mounts get flexed and tested, the need to be in tip top shape or you risk pushing the fan into the radiator and all. Ask me how i knew..

 

[lacresta]

The fit and finish for the Liland radiator is every bit as good as the Ron Davis. No install fitment issues, just a factory bolt on. Just to remember that the alum. radiator is thicker than factory unit. the Liland /RD is about 2.7" thick vs the OEM plastic unit is about 2". You lost about 3/4" clearance between the mechanical fan and back of the radiator. Fine for overland and mall crawl. But i would caution if you do any rock crawling where the engine and tranny mounts get flexed and tested, the need to be in tip top shape or you risk pushing the fan into the radiator and all. Ask me how i knew..

good info, thank you all for quick replies.

 

[thatcabledude]

Stock is suffice for me and it also lasts 20years.

 

[florida95fzj]

I have a new OEM radiator and run in the 180Fs during 95-100F summer temps with max AC. I don't think I got above 195F at idle this summer and that was a rare event. Although, this is always at sea level with no grade at all.

IMHO, keeping the cooling system clean is where I would focus my energy/money. My PO mixed incompatible coolant types. Cleaning things out and removing the rust helped a lot.

 

[lacresta]

Stock is suffice for me and it also lasts 20years.

no one has said anything neg about the stock rad.. as much as I like the RD hard to not go back with oem. I have the blue fan clutch mod. so I ordered the oem.. going to spend the extra grand on something else

I have a new OEM radiator and run in the 180Fs during 95-100F summer temps with max AC. I don't think I got above 195F at idle this summer and that was a rare event. Although, this is always at sea level with no grade at all.

IMHO, keeping the cooling system clean is where I would focus my energy/money. My PO mixed incompatible coolant types. Cleaning things out and removing the rust helped a lot.

PO's can be a head ache for sure, I am also dealing with a mech that is probally the one who poked the hole in my rad changing the oil pump o ring. he was suppose to have compleatly flushed the block all new hoses, stat, bypass valve and new toyota red coolant, blue fan clutch and some other stuuf I am not listing. I have less than 100 miles since his repair. will see what comes out when I drain it. good mech are really hard to find, noramlly I do every thing myself and never have problems got busy and paid a guy from a referal this time to a buch of work to it and about 70% of what he did was not what I wanted or done correctly, so going back in my self like I should have in the 1st place. I wanted all oem clamps replaced and ended up with hose clamps yes they work but I prefer 100% oem when posible. lots of things like that he did, of course he knows way more then Mr Toyota did when they desinged it right..

 

[Marco Lau]

There is no reasons to switch to a Ron Davis for the 4.5L. TYC or Koyo is more than enough IMO since they are still available for <$300

 

[lacresta]

There is no reasons to switch to a Ron Davis for the 4.5L. TYC or Koyo is more than enough IMO since they are still available for <$300

my 1st choice was OEM, but had to ask here if the RD was 3 times better since it cost $1,500 plus shipping with tax probally close to 2k. I have the OEM on the way now $520 inc tax. will save the RD for when I swap in the LS.. if ever. being in CA the smart guys in control dont want me to have a more efficiant, cleaner burning, engine.. bet they would have no problems with me switching to electric though.. F that.

 

[Marco Lau]

my 1st choice was OEM, but had to ask here if the RD was 3 times better since it cost $1,500 plus shipping with tax probally close to 2k. I have the OEM on the way now $520 inc tax. will save the RD for when I swap in the LS.. if ever. being in CA the smart guys in control dont want me to have a more efficiant, cleaner burning, engine.. bet they would have no problems with me switching to electric though.. F that.

I agree. Ron Davis will make no difference for those never venture off pavement. The only reasons i went with RD is because OEM is no longer in production and CSF brand was horrible at the time. With that said, Liland is my radiator of choice for those with 3F-E looking for a unit that will do well under load.

 

[lacresta]

I agree. Ron Davis will make no difference for those never venture off pavement. The only reasons i went with RD is because OEM is no longer in production and CSF brand was horrible at the time. With that said, Liland is my radiator of choice for those with 3F-E looking for a unit that will do well under load

I agree. Ron Davis will make no difference for those never venture off pavement. The only reasons i went with RD is because OEM is no longer in production and CSF brand was horrible at the time. With that said, Liland is my radiator of choice for those with 3F-E looking for a unit that will do well under load.

my 80 has the 4.5l and will be going off pavment in remote areas every trip. Not sure what everyone is saying about OEM not avalible? I ordered one from my toyota dealer today.. hopefully there is no problem getting it.

 

[deltapine1]

I've not run a Ron Davis and don't know the specs to say if it has more or less capacity but in my experience the stock plastic/aluminum in my '97 has had sufficient capacity. I'm not sure why you were seeing heat soaking @deltapine1 but I've towed our camper with a full load of people/gear thousands of miles, including in the SouthWest, Rockies and Appalachian mountains and I haven't seen what looked like heat soaking. There are a lot of factors beyond the radiator itself that could be different between your 80s temps and mine.

Our camper is probably a little over 3k lbs when loaded up, we often have a rooftop box mounted on the 80 along with all of the gear that my wife and I, plus our two kids need including bikes for all of us, etc. The 80 has a newish, modified/tuned blue hub clutch, clean coolant, foamed radiator, fan shroud, good tune, etc. and is running 33" tires and about 1" of lift.

In my experience, once the coolant system is otherwise baselined, tuning the fan clutch has had the biggest impact on how hot the 80 coolant temps run when towing, at speed and otherwise. When experimenting I have noticed that temps will climb at higher speeds (65+ mph) if the fan clutch isn't setup right. I think that radiator airflow from the 80 moving through the air actually starts to drop at higher speeds and the fan becomes increasingly important for maintaining airflow through the radiator as you drive faster.

All very good points and it is well worth noting that there are lots of factors beyond the radiator that come into play. I to completed a full baseline of the cooling system including Toyota water pump, Toyota thermostat, all new hoses and heater valves prior to replacing the original and very light Brown plastic tanked radiator. I am running 34" tires, 2" of lift, an ARB with 8274 (probably a factor), roof rack, rear slide out with fridge. My EGR fell off (should not be a factor if the system is operating as designed).

I worked through final phases of the cooling system adds in steps. The Ron Davis was the final step and I have not had to back out of the throttle, shut the AC off or use the Rear Heater to dissipate heat from the cooling system since.

Steps I found effective prior to the RD install:

1) CSF Copper/Brass radiator cooled better than a 23 year old original radiator and I wasn't worried about the old brittle plastic failing. Still had issues with heat soaking when pulling a trailer up grades at 70 plus mph but so did the stock radiator.
2) Blue Fan Clutch was money well spent and provided much better cooling efficiency idling in traffic or below 50 mph.
3) AC system rebuilt w/ new Evaporator Coil and Condenser . My AC cooled well before but after this baselining of the AC system I noticed that the AC blew the same cold air during long hills ascents with a load rather than seemingly blowing tempered air after the same exact hill in similar temps before. In my mind this had to be a function of more air passing thru the condensor (which was probably full of dirt and bug debris after 23 years)

4) Electric auxiliary fan installed and wired to the AC pressure switch as per OEM made a difference in extended idling or stop and go traffic.

5) Installing new rubber flap seals between inner fender well and frame. Yes, my original ones were in pieces or missing sections altogether. I debated this one for a long time as one would think open gaps let more heat out. Then I had a guy in Kuwait (where they see 120 deg F) the 80s cooling systems perform worse at high speed without the frame to inner fender well seals. We all know engine bay becomes a high pressure zone from the radiator fan, and that air has no where else to go but out through the bottom of the car. The faster you drive, the more of a vacuum you have underneath which helps pull that hot air out. His statement was that air flow takes the path of least resistance. Thus with gaps between frame and inner fender well air is pulled in through those gaps and out the bottom via vacuum thus diminishing the amount of air pulled through the front and across the sides of the engine and then down. Sealing these gaps off as much as possible effectively pulls more volume of air via vacuum through the radiator and across the head, exhaust manifold, etc and out the bottom rather than some through the radiator and some through the frame to inner fender well gaps. This step notably changed my high speed hill ascents; I no longer had to back out of the throttle or turn the heat on unless ambient temps were 100 deg F or higher. Toyota's got some good engineers!

6) Keep your heat shield in place! Ever study that thing? It doesn't have vents facing forward scooping air from the front and forcing it down because it looks cool. That thing blocks the exhaust heat from rising as well as directing the air flow on the RIght side of the engine bay downward across the exhaust manifolds and out the bottom. See more about his above in #5. Toyota's got some good engineers.

7) Foam gaskets on either side of the radiator as well as underside of the hood toward the leading edge and at the cowl. Forces air through the radiator instead of allowing it to go around the radiator as well as enhancing airflow down and out the bottom. Toyota's got some good engineers.

8) Ron Davis Radiator! After all the above steps this one has allowed me to maintain 70 plus mph up hills while towing in ambient temps over 100 deg F. (highest so far - 107 deg F w/ heat indexes in 118 deg F range) while running the AC and never feathering the throttle. Ron Davis has a good recipe!

Summary: If you plan to DD or depend on your 80 to operate in 100 degree F plus temps it helps for the vehicle to be in an "as designed state" which includes a baseline of the cooling system and the AC system. After that add the Blue fan clutch and auxiliary fan (@LandCruiserPhil should have his variant in stock) and then you will know if your driving conditions dictate the Ron Davis is necessary. I am curious if @alia176 finds similar satisfaction with his RD install.

 

[alia176]

I just installed a RD into my turbo'ed 80 and did my first shake down run yesterday before I leave for UT today. In preparation for this swap, I did the following:
- citric acid rinse of the coolant system
-new Tstat, O rings, etc
- distilled water flush
-delete rear heater (not related, simply while I was in there)
-capped off TB small hoses/nipples

Ran around for couple of hours yesterday with the a/c on and noticed the following on Scangauge: temps were sub 180deg, and usually stated around 195deg. Had a phone call in the parking lot with the engine idling+a/c running and she almost hit 198deg. So far all indications are positive because I normally run in the 200deg while driving and if I was sitting/idling with a/c, I'd have easily hit 215+. Heading home is a 2,000' climb from the city and she stayed at 195deg, and I normally hit 220deg on this drive. So far, so good and I'm dying to see how she does when I pull long hills at 75mph today or hit the head winds at hwy speeds.

I used to run an elec pusher fan from a 4runner and I've removed it to see how the RD radiator does by itself. I did this when I ran the Koyo radiator to see if the pusher fan was impeding air flow during the summer since my temps were always hitting 220deg+. This was wired to the A/C trinary switch per mud.

I believe I'm running 15k CST in the blue fan clutch.

I tell you what though, swapping a radiator is such a PITA. I hope not to touch this again for the next decade+. I also swapped out the ECU harness at the same time and boy howdy, that is truly a PITA project and I'm so glad it's done. Those of you with a York air comp + turbo will appreciate the effort it takes to do an ECU harness swap!!

 

[lacresta]

I just installed a RD into my turbo'ed 80 and did my first shake down run yesterday before I leave for UT today. In preparation for this swap, I did the following:
- citric acid rinse of the coolant system
-new Tstat, O rings, etc
- distilled water flush
-delete rear heater (not related, simply while I was in there)
-capped off TB small hoses/nipples

Ran around for couple of hours yesterday with the a/c on and noticed the following on Scangauge: temps were sub 180deg, and usually stated around 195deg. Had a phone call in the parking lot with the engine idling+a/c running and she almost hit 198deg. So far all indications are positive because I normally run in the 200deg while driving and if I was sitting/idling with a/c, I'd have easily hit 215+. Heading home is a 2,000' climb from the city and she stayed at 195deg, and I normally hit 220deg on this drive. So far, so good and I'm dying to see how she does when I pull long hills at 75mph today or hit the head winds at hwy speeds.

I used to run an elec pusher fan from a 4runner and I've removed it to see how the RD radiator does by itself. I did this when I ran the Koyo radiator to see if the pusher fan was impeding air flow during the summer since my temps were always hitting 220deg+. This was wired to the A/C trinary switch per mud.

I believe I'm running 15k CST in the blue fan clutch.

I tell you what thought, swapping a radiator is such a PITA. I hope not to touch this again for the next decade+. I also swapped out the ECU harness at the same time and boy howdy, that is truly a PITA project and I'm so glad it's done. Those of you with a York air comp + turbo will appreciate the effort it takes to do an ECU harness swap!!

are you saying just changing the RAD to an RD dropped your temp by 15deg?

 

[alia176]

In my limited shakedown run, I would say yes. Give me another 4 hours and I will be able to give you a more definitive answer. However, so far I am way beyond impressed. In fact, I'm seeing temperature below 180°, that to me is absolutely absurd

are you saying just changing the RAD to an RD dropped your temp by 15deg?

 

[Marco Lau]

My RD dropped my coolant temp from 215F @ highway speed (almost overheating from a CSF to 187-195F cruising @ 75mph with the RD given the same perimeters...

 

[leonard_nemoy]

The fit and finish for the Liland radiator is every bit as good as the Ron Davis. No install fitment issues, just a factory bolt on. Just to remember that the alum. radiator is thicker than factory unit. the Liland /RD is about 2.7" thick vs the OEM plastic unit is about 2". You lost about 3/4" clearance between the mechanical fan and back of the radiator. Fine for overland and mall crawl. But i would caution if you do any rock crawling where the engine and tranny mounts get flexed and tested, the need to be in tip top shape or you risk pushing the fan into the radiator and all. Ask me how i knew..

Think this would be the case for the 93 - 97 models or only an issue with the fj80 models?