Rollbar Options for a 72 FJ40 with "long" rear stock bench seats
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You could use SOR's seat bracket kit - http://www.sor.com/sor/cat244.tam?xax=11971&page.ctx=cat244.tam or build your own to space the rear seats out in order to mount a roll bar.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Whether the SOR spacer kit will fit depends on your rollbar design.
I have an earlier SOR roll cage, discontinued now. The main hoop covers up the forward seat mounting hole in the tub wall. The seat now bolts directly to the roll bar at that location. The rear seat attachment simply uses a much longer bolt with a metal tube over the bolt to act as a spacer.
I'd recommend you install the roll bar first. Then fit the seat. You'll find it ain't gunna be a big deal.
The real bug-a-boo is that the small rubber feet under the seat will no longer sit on top of the wheel well. You could move them back on the metal seat bottom, but that loses the reinforcing inside (so I'm told). I have not resolved mine yet, so right now the seats are supported by large wooden jacking blocks.
I have an earlier SOR roll cage, discontinued now. The main hoop covers up the forward seat mounting hole in the tub wall. The seat now bolts directly to the roll bar at that location. The rear seat attachment simply uses a much longer bolt with a metal tube over the bolt to act as a spacer.
I'd recommend you install the roll bar first. Then fit the seat. You'll find it ain't gunna be a big deal.
The real bug-a-boo is that the small rubber feet under the seat will no longer sit on top of the wheel well. You could move them back on the metal seat bottom, but that loses the reinforcing inside (so I'm told). I have not resolved mine yet, so right now the seats are supported by large wooden jacking blocks.
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- #4
Thanks for the feedback --- NW Boys
Just picked up a stock rollbar that has been modified by adding a front cage for driver and passenger. Problem is the stock 72 long seats will not fit between the bar above the front seats and the side bar.
Could add something like the SOR family bar and remove the sidebars but do not think that will fit the seats either. I lik eht idea of mounting directly to the rol bar and adding a tube with long bolt but again unsure that the seats will still fit.
Got to decide --- safety or original look.
Thanks again
Just picked up a stock rollbar that has been modified by adding a front cage for driver and passenger. Problem is the stock 72 long seats will not fit between the bar above the front seats and the side bar.
Could add something like the SOR family bar and remove the sidebars but do not think that will fit the seats either. I lik eht idea of mounting directly to the rol bar and adding a tube with long bolt but again unsure that the seats will still fit.
Got to decide --- safety or original look.
Thanks again
Well, if it's "original" you want, the long jumpseat models did not come with a factory rollbar. The short jumpseats were introduced specifically to fit the factory rollbar.
My suggestion is to space them out.
But, the stock rollbar is made of very thinwall tubing. It's better than nothing, but it could be better. Before you drill up your FJ40 to install it, why not visit Metal Tech in Portland and check out their various roll cage kits, which also come complete? At the very least, get the OEM replacement, which is stronger than the one you bought.
http://metaltech4x4.com/homebody.htm
My suggestion is to space them out.
But, the stock rollbar is made of very thinwall tubing. It's better than nothing, but it could be better. Before you drill up your FJ40 to install it, why not visit Metal Tech in Portland and check out their various roll cage kits, which also come complete? At the very least, get the OEM replacement, which is stronger than the one you bought.
http://metaltech4x4.com/homebody.htm
I have an old Confer, Man-A-Fre, whatever rollbar in my mine, it is the typical aftermarket design. Been through two rolls now on the driver side. Rollbar hs held up good, sheetmetal does not.
My dad actually installed the bar many moons ago, he used the little kit to extend the seats out. It works but not well. The rubber feet not hitting is a major problem. He even moved them back on one seat many years ago. This seat later became slightly bent due to the fact you are cantilevering it out too far from the wheel well. When we restored it I added a new support peice inside the seat frame, welded nut and all just like the stock support for the foot. But I also built a fold out leg, that attaches to the frame with similar factory style support within the seat, welded nuts and all. Came out very stock looking, and rock solid. However, by moving the seats out from the wall and fitting them to the rollbar, they become more vertical on the backs, and get pretty uncomfortable. You also need to extend the seat belts, or make new. I cut the ends off mine and had a sewing shop make new longer ones out of some replacement boat trailer winch webbing. Worked very good getting the webbing. I made up the belts the way I wanted and taped them with masking tape. The shop just sewed through the tape, and I removed it later.
I also had to make spacers for the rear feet of the seats that bolt to the fenderwell as the seats tilts forward and will not contact the well any longer with these.
I personally like the longer rear seats, but for all of the use I've had out of mine, which is very little, a set of little seats may have been a better option with a stock style bar.
Also, in my last roll over, I did deform the the top of the wheel well some. 75 and up FJ-40's with the stock bar have reinforcements under the mounting points of the roll bar, this may be worth looking into if you add a roll bar.
My dad actually installed the bar many moons ago, he used the little kit to extend the seats out. It works but not well. The rubber feet not hitting is a major problem. He even moved them back on one seat many years ago. This seat later became slightly bent due to the fact you are cantilevering it out too far from the wheel well. When we restored it I added a new support peice inside the seat frame, welded nut and all just like the stock support for the foot. But I also built a fold out leg, that attaches to the frame with similar factory style support within the seat, welded nuts and all. Came out very stock looking, and rock solid. However, by moving the seats out from the wall and fitting them to the rollbar, they become more vertical on the backs, and get pretty uncomfortable. You also need to extend the seat belts, or make new. I cut the ends off mine and had a sewing shop make new longer ones out of some replacement boat trailer winch webbing. Worked very good getting the webbing. I made up the belts the way I wanted and taped them with masking tape. The shop just sewed through the tape, and I removed it later.
I also had to make spacers for the rear feet of the seats that bolt to the fenderwell as the seats tilts forward and will not contact the well any longer with these.
I personally like the longer rear seats, but for all of the use I've had out of mine, which is very little, a set of little seats may have been a better option with a stock style bar.
Also, in my last roll over, I did deform the the top of the wheel well some. 75 and up FJ-40's with the stock bar have reinforcements under the mounting points of the roll bar, this may be worth looking into if you add a roll bar.
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- #7
Here's what I got -- it was free
Stock roll bar and side bars with safety belt attachment locations and the sidebar connector pads. The front bar was welded to it and does fit in my rig well --- I have 3/8"x 9" wide plate that I was going to cut the length of the wheel well to give additional rigidity --- mainly 3/8 because it was free and the length because I have enough -- thought it would help with potential "punch through" without welding to the frame. However, it will add weight and the metal tech design was so much better. It needs a paint job -- the boy has been sanding on it to clean it up. Notice the driveway -- it "sucks" to work on and I have a 7' ceiling in the garage.
In the 72, I have no constraints other than the factory seats and my inability to decide to deveate from "original" -- no holes have been drilled ---- yet.
Looking at the Metal Tech (great web site), maybe I should look for stock 74 and after seats or a bench seat --- since the bar was free --- metal tech was very nice but WOW -- I did like the design of the full cage and the bends for handles. Way cool and probably very safe.
The factory top will fit over the one I picked up for free but still struggling with keeping it original or "drilling" it to fit the roll bar and "some sort" of seating arrangement.
Stock roll bar and side bars with safety belt attachment locations and the sidebar connector pads. The front bar was welded to it and does fit in my rig well --- I have 3/8"x 9" wide plate that I was going to cut the length of the wheel well to give additional rigidity --- mainly 3/8 because it was free and the length because I have enough -- thought it would help with potential "punch through" without welding to the frame. However, it will add weight and the metal tech design was so much better. It needs a paint job -- the boy has been sanding on it to clean it up. Notice the driveway -- it "sucks" to work on and I have a 7' ceiling in the garage.
In the 72, I have no constraints other than the factory seats and my inability to decide to deveate from "original" -- no holes have been drilled ---- yet.
Looking at the Metal Tech (great web site), maybe I should look for stock 74 and after seats or a bench seat --- since the bar was free --- metal tech was very nice but WOW -- I did like the design of the full cage and the bends for handles. Way cool and probably very safe.
The factory top will fit over the one I picked up for free but still struggling with keeping it original or "drilling" it to fit the roll bar and "some sort" of seating arrangement.
Coolerman
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Here is a pic of a nice roll cage desing someone here sent me when I asked this exact question.
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- #9
Coolerman
Now that is cool --- like the bend around the arm of the jump seat -- AND makes it family friendly over what I currently have in the driveway.
Anybody got a close up of how the bar fits behind the driver/pass seats and if it covers up the forward seat mount hole or is it attached to the bar like Brian has done. I guess it could be bent similar to the back bar and mounted to the floor instead of the wheel well. The pic looks like no impact to the stock "long" seats.
Now that is cool --- like the bend around the arm of the jump seat -- AND makes it family friendly over what I currently have in the driveway.
Anybody got a close up of how the bar fits behind the driver/pass seats and if it covers up the forward seat mount hole or is it attached to the bar like Brian has done. I guess it could be bent similar to the back bar and mounted to the floor instead of the wheel well. The pic looks like no impact to the stock "long" seats.
Well, along those lines, I was contemplating a new rollbar for mine that would let my seats go back to there original postion. I was going to make one loop that went down right next to the front seats and mounted to the first raised area in the floor, where the rear of the front seats mount. This is a reinforced cross member in the body, so it would be a good mount. Then going back I thought about a loop that would tuck up nicely inside the hardtop, right up close. And then come down an each side of the rear hatch with two more legs to support the rear hoop.
I don't know if it is a really good design or not, but it would afford some protection. The rear supports mounting in close to the rear of the fender well would be better suported too for that matter. I may need some diagonals to help the rar hoop from twisitng from an impact.
I don't know if it is a really good design or not, but it would afford some protection. The rear supports mounting in close to the rear of the fender well would be better suported too for that matter. I may need some diagonals to help the rar hoop from twisitng from an impact.
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- #11
Good thought on the middle support but I have the gas filler tube in the way on the passenger side -- see pics of driver and passenger potential mounting location. My tank may create a problem too on the passenger side.
For the back -- is the "Coolerman's " pic seem reasonably stable or do you experts out there think the bends would create a location of weakness in a roll --- MoCoNative, you look like you have experience in this area with your 1973 FJ-40, Stock, Restored, Flipped and wrecked .
For the back -- is the "Coolerman's " pic seem reasonably stable or do you experts out there think the bends would create a location of weakness in a roll --- MoCoNative, you look like you have experience in this area with your 1973 FJ-40, Stock, Restored, Flipped and wrecked .
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- #12
Has anybody fastened the center hoop to the front vertical wheel well with a bracket and then transferred the load to the main center support where the seatbelts are fastened on the "inside" of the wheel well (directly in front of the rear tire) -- see pic.
Coolerman
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I looked at the other pics I have and none show the mounting any better.
There is no doubt the design is a compromise but while I'm not a cage expert by any means I believe with thick wall tubing that design would be more than adequate for a FJ40. When I reach that stage of completion in my build I will re-evaluate it.
There is no doubt the design is a compromise but while I'm not a cage expert by any means I believe with thick wall tubing that design would be more than adequate for a FJ40. When I reach that stage of completion in my build I will re-evaluate it.
Your '72 is the same color as mine. Any pics of the complete truck?
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- #15
Here she is -- I have been delayed by working on the 75PIG -- getting her running --- now I am working on "the Jitney." Bought from the original owner a couple of years ago. So Far - original except for the rims but I have them also.
A 73 filler is a tad differnt than yours, but similar. I had an idea of bringing the rollbar tube down, just below the top of the tub. Then stopping the tubing. Then welding a heavy flat plate on the bottom of the tubing and extending down from that point with two pieces of heavy flat bar on down to the floor area. You could then put some cross supports between the bars. But this would leave a hole for the filler neck to pass through. I would use very heavy plate, but I think it would be adequate.
I've actually liad my cruiser over twice. First one was pretty slow, the drivers side upper panel did wrap around it several inches though. The rollbar held good though. The second time, this spring was at a higher speed and far mor energy was involved. I flipped again on the drivers side, but this time much harder and the rear drivers corner made contact with the ground first. As the roof smashed in on the that corner it colapsed the rear corner window pretty good. the energy trveled forward and caught the rollbar. The roll bar did deflect again towards the passenger side, but it also traveled forward slightly and crushed down the top of the fenderwell. It also broke a little of the fender well where I had cut out some rust and put some bondo on my patch on the spot where the fender well starts to fall downwards. It cracked my patch weld and broke the bondo out. The roll also got the upper part of my drivers door and the windshield frame.
Overall it held up okay, the stock roof is pretty strong, but the roll bar saved me from serious injury or death for sure, I would have been hurt if the rood had not deformed aroudn the bar like it did. It did hold up alot of the vehicle when I hit.
Now a 70 MPH freeway flip, better hold on, cause nothing may save you. I went over at about 30-40 MPH after a small trailer got to whipping me and we went off the road.
For competion use, I would build a full cage and tie it to the frame and such, but for a lifesaver in a daily driven 40, I think what you're looking at would be fine.
I've actually liad my cruiser over twice. First one was pretty slow, the drivers side upper panel did wrap around it several inches though. The rollbar held good though. The second time, this spring was at a higher speed and far mor energy was involved. I flipped again on the drivers side, but this time much harder and the rear drivers corner made contact with the ground first. As the roof smashed in on the that corner it colapsed the rear corner window pretty good. the energy trveled forward and caught the rollbar. The roll bar did deflect again towards the passenger side, but it also traveled forward slightly and crushed down the top of the fenderwell. It also broke a little of the fender well where I had cut out some rust and put some bondo on my patch on the spot where the fender well starts to fall downwards. It cracked my patch weld and broke the bondo out. The roll also got the upper part of my drivers door and the windshield frame.
Overall it held up okay, the stock roof is pretty strong, but the roll bar saved me from serious injury or death for sure, I would have been hurt if the rood had not deformed aroudn the bar like it did. It did hold up alot of the vehicle when I hit.
Now a 70 MPH freeway flip, better hold on, cause nothing may save you. I went over at about 30-40 MPH after a small trailer got to whipping me and we went off the road.
For competion use, I would build a full cage and tie it to the frame and such, but for a lifesaver in a daily driven 40, I think what you're looking at would be fine.
here's my temp fix.
Excuse the dust - been sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding andsandingandsandingsome more.
Excuse the dust - been sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding andsandingandsandingsome more.
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- #18
MoCoNative -- sounds like you have been pretty lucky!
Farman33 -- thanks for the pics --- Sounds limilar to what MoCoNative and Brian in Oregon did --- sounds like I will still run into the problems with the rubber stops on the bottom of the seats not resting onto the wheel well because they have been moved out farther away from the wall.
Sounds like a good temporary fix ---
Farman33 -- thanks for the pics --- Sounds limilar to what MoCoNative and Brian in Oregon did --- sounds like I will still run into the problems with the rubber stops on the bottom of the seats not resting onto the wheel well because they have been moved out farther away from the wall.
Sounds like a good temporary fix ---
Coolerman
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Never seen that configuration before. Anyone else have any pics of this detailing how it connected in the rear? Sure looks like a headache bar though!
