Replacing the starter on the trail. (1 Viewer)

[TexAZ]

the easiest spot is actually the braided wire between the solenoid and the main starter body.
depending on how much ground clearance you have and light, poking a 3 ft. screwdriver exactly on a terminal lug can be difficult.

when mine went, there was no warning. started, drove to parents house dropped off the kiddos, and click...click...nothing.

luckily I was in town, on clean dry land and had internet access. looked up Tundra solutions for dead starter and came across a couple threads of guys doing the long screwdriver jump. I used both legs of a set of jumper cables and had my dad push the button, then I hit the screwdriver with the jumper cable. there were some warning lights, but the truck drove fine, no limp mode.

the tools to replace the starter are nothing out of the ordinary, just regular hand tools. go in through the wheel well. use as many extensions and universals as needed to get to the bolts and nuts on the exhaust manifold.

on our annual trip to Moab/Colorado I keep the long screwdriver wrapped in tape in the tool drawer, just in case someone else has starter issues. I also carried a CV rebuild kit this year....luckily didn't need either.

1*

 

[2001LC]

Taping the screw drive make a lot of senses.

Darn we've too pull exhaust manifold bolt & nuts to due starter job. I Pity those in rust belt. Did you replace exhaust manifold gasket, nuts & bolts as well?

 

[ckkone]

.

I never go in alone. I have my friends, tools, parts, shop manual.

If thats the case, then why are you so worried about it.

 

[TexAZ]

Taping the screw drive make a lot of senses.

Darn we've too pull exhaust manifold bolt & nuts to due starter job. I Pity those in rust belt. Did you replace exhaust manifold gasket, nuts & bolts as well?

I should have, but didn't. I was in a rush to get the job done. its been a couple years and I haven't seen any signs of leakage or loosening bolts. and I've put the truck through a lot since then...

 

[chris777]

Your tone is coming off as pretty condescending, and you don’t know any of us here otherwise you’d be pretty impressed with how many of us use our trucks how they’re intended to be used, especially @Taco2Cruiser. We’re pretty familiar with the platform and understand the weak points and make educated decisions on what to bring along on the trail. It should be obvious, but a 33 year old FJ is going to have far different requirements than a couple year old 200. I absolutely believe you that you break down on the trail and need to fix it to get you home. But you should believe us as owners and users of the 200 that we do not require the same number of spare parts and tools that you do. Clearly you’re not a wheeling newbie, but don’t assume we are because we have newer trucks.

Well, I am sorry if my tone came across as condescending. Perhaps I was. I am sorry. I am not looking to make any enemies here. I was just very surprised and taken aback by the bravado that Land Cruisers don't break down, and if you do, someone will come by to help you. I have been so glad, on numerous occaisions that I had the belt, hose, motor mount, alternator, or other spare part I needed, otherwise I would have been a huge burden on my fellow overlanders, and probably would ruin our trip. If I bought a modern vehicle like the 200 series, I wouldn't carrry nearly as many parts, just hoses and belts. But I understand that the starter on a 200 is a weak link. And one that could leave you stranded. And even if I had an extra one with me, I doubt I would be able to replace it. That worries me. I came on the 200 forum to find out what contingency plans you guys had, if you lost something like a starter when you are deep in the back country. The local professionals can come in and tow you out, but they charge thousands of dollars. I've never seen a 200 out there where we go. Do you guys/gals, who don't believe in spare parts, just ride the trails close to Moab? or in the Off Road Parks, like Katemcy 2? I will probably just keep taking my FJ60 when I go back to Utah.

 

[chris777]

If thats the case, then why are you so worried about it.

well, if it takes a Toyota shop 6 hours, according to their book, to replace the starter on a 200 series Land Cruiser (they have lifts, special tools, etc), I seriously doubt that my friends, tools, and manuals would be enough, like they are with my FJ60. I was hoping you guys might say, something like, although it took us all day on the trail, we were able to replace the starter motor on our 200 and continue on our way. But I haven't heard any body say that.

 

[indycole]

I'm also in the "not too worried about the starter beyond PM" camp. That said, I do carry a sat phone and two spare tires.

 

[linuxgod]

You dont think Land Cruisers ever break down? They do. Believe me. They do. And you will find out one of these days, if you you keep it long enough and use it they way it was intended to be used.

You're comparing a 33 year old vehicle with one that's 1/4 it's age, possibly less. How many miles are on your 60? 200k? 300k?

Stuff fails on the 200 but:

1. the majority of 200s are still fairly new and low-ish miles. Very little fails the first 100k miles. Even the next 100-150k seems to be either well known issues or stuff that gives sufficient warning
2. many (most) of the 200 owners on here do extensive preventative maintenance. You'll see lots of comments about "truck hit 120k... did the starter along with the water pump and radiator as PM".
3. vehicles are built sooo much more reliable now than they were 30 years ago. I'm sure people will disagree with me here, but you can buy a crapbox Kia Rio or Chevy Spark and get 100k out of it with minimal maintenance or repairs and they will run 150k+, whereas find my a Ford Escort or any Hyundai in the 80s that hit 100k without thousands of dollars worth of repairs to keep it on the road. Yes it's a Toyota and they were reasonably reliable in the 80s (my $300 1980 Celica GT not withstanding) but the level of reliability in all vehicles now is astounding, and despite hundreds of new sensors, systems, ECUs, etc the overall reliability is still above the 100, 80, 60, etc..

I'm not knockin' your 60. Honestly I love them and I hope my 200 is looked upon in 30 years like your 60 is now. I'm just saying there's a lot of stuff that goes wrong in any 30 year old car, no matter how well built or well maintained it is.

 

[M1911]

I don’t carry a spare CV or starter. If I did, I likely wouldn’t have enough tools to change them. And if I did have the tools, I wouldn’t have the knowledge to change them — I can change a tire, oil, and filters, but not much beyond that. Most of my wheeling has been with others, but some has been solo.

You can consider me to be foolish if you wish. :shrug:

 

[TexAZ]

@chris777

Kurt fromm @cruiseroutfit has a 200 he drives daily, and on trips. they swapped out a starter in the field.
it takes a couple hours, mostly because its a pain in the to get to.
there are no special tools or a lift needed, just patience and lots of extensions....

There seems to be a lot of back and forth in this thread about wheeling style and attitude.

check out the thread on the guys that ran hole in the rock earlier this year. Yes, some of us go off the beaten path, some stay to the rivers and waterfall they are used to (TLC quote...sorry). its what ever floats your boat.

There aren't many 200s beyond 200K miles, yet. and Toyota designed the truck for a 250K mile service life.
Generally, 200s are very reliable. the major weaknesses have been found and shared on this forum, so most of the guys replace the parts that are a concern before leaving for the trail. They just don't break that much.

travelling with the wife and kids, I can't just hope someone comes along to help. I want to be able to do whatever it takes to get everyone home, and happy enough that they are willing to ride again.

Take a look at the hell and back moab 2017 thread for that epic adventure.

Know your truck, your capabilities, and what you are willing to repair/replace to get out on your own, then drive trails commensurate with that.

 

[chris777]

You're comparing a 33 year old vehicle with one that's 1/4 it's age, possibly less. How many miles are on your 60? 200k? 300k?

Stuff fails on the 200 but:

1. the majority of 200s are still fairly new and low-ish miles. Very little fails the first 100k miles. Even the next 100-150k seems to be either well known issues or stuff that gives sufficient warning
2. many (most) of the 200 owners on here do extensive preventative maintenance. You'll see lots of comments about "truck hit 120k... did the starter along with the water pump and radiator as PM".
3. vehicles are built sooo much more reliable now than they were 30 years ago. I'm sure people will disagree with me here, but you can buy a crapbox Kia Rio or Chevy Spark and get 100k out of it with minimal maintenance or repairs and they will run 150k+, whereas find my a Ford Escort or any Hyundai in the 80s that hit 100k without thousands of dollars worth of repairs to keep it on the road. Yes it's a Toyota and they were reasonably reliable in the 80s (my $300 1980 Celica GT not withstanding) but the level of reliability in all vehicles now is astounding, and despite hundreds of new sensors, systems, ECUs, etc the overall reliability is still above the 100, 80, 60, etc..

I'm not knockin' your 60. Honestly I love them and I hope my 200 is looked upon in 30 years like your 60 is now. I'm just saying there's a lot of stuff that goes wrong in any 30 year old car, no matter how well built or well maintained it is.

i am just telling where i am coming from. My experience is with my 33 year old Landcruiser. It is the only thing i have ever taken on overland expeditions. It has 400,000 miles on it after you adjust for the oversize tires on it. It has its disadvantages, believe me. It is slow on the highway, in the mountains, and off road. The engine and the suspension are from the 1940s. It only has two advantages, that i can think of. I can lug my engine down to 400 rpms without stalling, and i can work on her very easily. I will never get rid of her. She has been in calendars and in three Toyotal Trails trip articles that i have written. But i am very interested in having something easier to drive up to Utah from Texas, and, easier to drive when i get on the off road trails in Utah and Arizona. Because i am quickly approaching my 70s. I have said all this before, but i realize that people dont read all the posts. The only thing that stops me from buying a 5 year old 200 series land cruiser is my concern that when a part fails, especially a part that is known to fail on the 200 series, the starter. My question: is it is too difficult to replace on the trail, and are you are looking at a huge expensive ordeal to rectify the situation. So yes, i am comparing the 60 and the 200 when it comes to trail side repairability. Why is that so wrong?

 

[ckkone]

well, if it takes a Toyota shop 6 hours, according to their book, to replace the starter on a 200 series Land Cruiser (they have lifts, special tools, etc), I seriously doubt that my friends, tools, and manuals would be enough, like they are with my FJ60.

No special tools required, its just nuts and bolts. Like I said in my first post worst part is taking the old one out because of its size, the new ones you buy are physically smaller and easier to get back in. Of course it takes Toyota 6 hours, they are a business and have billable hours. I mean it takes them an hour to change my oil and rotate the tires, a job I could do myself in 30 minutes in my driveway. The stater realistically would only take a couple hours. Starters fail on every vehicle eventually, its not something special to the 200 series landcruiser.


Check out this thread half way down the page... it took them 4 hrs but he said it could be done in 2 and that was in the middle of no where without a lift or special tools.

Builds - Project Fauxverlander 200 Series Land Cruiser Build Thread

I'm not trying to be an ass, but you are talking yourself out of the greatest cruiser ever made (the 200 series) because a starter might or might not fail on the trail...

 

[04UZJ100]

You guys are all in the 20th century. My wife and I each drive a cruiser when we go off the grid. This way I have a whole spare truck!

 

[TeCKis300]

I think this is why some people replace the starter as PM prior to a major excursion like you described.

Nailed it. The more remote the destination, the more preventative measure as risk mitigation.

Though I still appreciate this thread in the off chance I need to ever jump the starter.

 

[bloc]

Or.. to the OP: get a 200, change the starter in your driveway, and don’t worry about it for another 120k?

That’s my plan.

 

[tominboise]

Or.. to the OP: get a 200, change the starter in your driveway, and don’t worry about it for another 120k?

That’s my plan.

Replace the starter in the driveway, thereby getting the tools required identified and the process down, and then take the tools and the spare starter along in the toolkit.

I am curious if anyone has posted of pic/video of how to jump the starter?

 

[TexAZ]

check the tundra forums, or search for video of tundra starter solenoid bypass.
My Starter RR thread starting with the bypass. - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum
that is where I found the process initially. there are so many more tundras on the road, and a lot more "creative" mechanic types out there modifying and wrenching on them.
I like to take advantage of the similarities between the platforms, and leverage the greater collective of the tundra crowd.

 

[krice118]

Im in the boat of PREVENTATIVE maintenance to negate most of the failures one might encounter in the field.

For a rig that sees alot of dirt, waiting for a part to fail before replacing it is dumb.

IF it were me, id buy the 200 and replace anything I was worried about failing me on the trail and enjoy it for a while

 

[chris777]

OK, thanks, I think I see a good plan. If I buy a used 200, replace the starter myself with the smaller one, carry the one I took off as a back up. And according to Kurt you don't have to take off nearly as much stuff as the Toyota manual says you have to take off. And also, it is important to learn how to by pass a bad solenoid and jump start your starter. There are a lot of videos on the internets. I am going to teach myself how to do that on my 60.

 

[chris777]

Im in the boat of PREVENTATIVE maintenance to negate most of the failures one might encounter in the field.

For a rig that sees alot of dirt, waiting for a part to fail before replacing it is dumb.

yeah, well, I once had a brand new OEM Toyota fuel pump fail on me one week after it was installed. Even new, and especially rebuilt parts, can and do fail. Glad that pump failed on the highway between Dallas and Austin, and not on some remote trail in Utah.