Builds Redline's Resto Rock Rod (1 Viewer)

[Boing]

Alright I have been scratching the itch....

I have decided I will come back to the dog house, been wanting to start to tackle the front suspension...
So I went down to the shop and started to pull the front axle 20 minutes later it was out (by far the fastest I have ever pulled a axle and leaf springs without power tools, oh did I mention it was all original still...)

Just finished sweeping the floor 25 mins later... Currently the bottom of the frame is leveled at 21.5", but I think its going to be raised to 22". Just starting to play with suspension ideas.

Shot from the front sans front axle...

Rolled the tires forward to the new front axle center line (7" forward from stock), just for a pic... Measurements look like it will have just a little of a 40" tire in front of the frame...

Now Justin needs to come get this hunk-o-scrap iron . We are going to put it into his blue 40 so that it can have the fancy new technology, disc brakes. The front drums are done...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Those shackles are not original

20 min is wicked fast. I couldn't do it that fast.

 

[Boing]

Those shackles are not original

20 min is wicked fast. I couldn't do it that fast.

You are correct, good eye...

Justin and I went snow wheeling this weekend, although there wasn't that much snow we still had a good time goofing off in the woods.


Also picked up a 42 tsl (that is about 25% tread), will be using this tire for testing fitment. The tire not inflated measured to 38.5" so its a little short but should work for what we need...

 

[Boing]

Progress

Alright have been turning a wrench quite a bit in the last two weeks just not on my own junk, here is where i am at...

Started mocking up front axle positions, rear most mark is factory then its from 5"-7" moved forward. Frame under the door is leveled at 22.5" (for the time being). Also have the knuckles at 10* of caster...

Motor mounts will have to be taken out since I tried to mount the motor before the axle was here for suspension mock up. Will be moving the motor back 3"-4"s & possibly down a touch however we will see about all this at a later time. Fan is in contact with the top of the axle and its got another 2.25"-3.625" of bump travel to go. One step forward two huge steps back...

Drivers side almost has enough room to the top of the axle to make full bump, however it still has to clear steering. The front frame rails will be sectioned and humped up for clearance.

Under shot...

Picked up our mock up third from the shop, it has been dropped enough now that it needed some cleanup around the edges so I put a little angle on the out side.

In the process of mocking everything up I have grown tired of not being able to mount some things so I am going to build the tie-rod. I ran heim steering in one of my Sami's and loved it was always tight and precise feeling. So I have started piecing together some parts to put together the tie-rod. Ordered these from BC-Broncos its a tapered stud that has a .75" shank (ID of a .75 heim). So it wont waller out the hole. 4130 heat treated and zinc coated...

Left is a 3/4 - 3/4 16 right is a 7/8 (3/4 id) - 7/8 14 (will be only a tie-rod so it doesn't need high misalignment's).

Will run a 7/8 - 7/8 14 so that i have two different options for heims within one tierod...

 

[RLMS]

I knew I was missing my favorite pair of gloves!

Looks good!

Justin

 

[boots4]

In the process of mocking everything up I have grown tired of not being able to mount some things so I am going to build the tie-rod. I ran heim steering in one of my Sami's and loved it was always tight and precise feeling. So I have started piecing together some parts to put together the tie-rod. Ordered these from BC-Broncos its a tapered stud that has a .75" shank (ID of a .75 heim). So it wont waller out the hole. 4130 heat treated and zinc coated...

Left is a 3/4 - 3/4 16 right is a 7/8 (3/4 id) - 7/8 14 (will be only a tie-rod so it doesn't need high misalignment's).

Will run a 7/8 - 7/8 14 so that i have two different options for heims within one tierod...

Those are awesome! I've gone through another 80 TRE so I'm looking to upgrade in strength and tighten up some slop so something like this would be great.

 

[FLYINGLOW]

Those are awesome! I've gone through another 80 TRE so I'm looking to upgrade in strength and tighten up some slop so something like this would be great.

Ya, what are they tapered for? 1 ton chevy?

 

[Boing]

Those are awesome! I've gone through another 80 TRE so I'm looking to upgrade in strength and tighten up some slop so something like this would be great.

I had also when I finally switched, that being said if you get a tapered reamer you can open up the 80 tre-ends to accept 1-ton chevy tre's. Which I would highly recommend as they are beef and available at alot of auto part stores. (Since I see that you road trip your truck alot, by the way that is a very nice build, I love cummins!)

Ya, what are they tapered for? 1 ton chevy?

Unfortunately they are f-150 taper, however BC Broncos sells a tapered 4130 insert. Which is what I am going to use, because my arms are tapered for 1-ton chevy at present...

 

[FLYINGLOW]

Unfortunately they are f-150 taper, however BC Broncos sells a tapered 4130 insert. Which is what I am going to use, because my arms are tapered for 1-ton chevy at present...

Thanks. Too bad nobody does the 80 or 1 ton taper on something like that...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

What are the dimensions on the f-150 taper?

 

[Boing]

I think they all three have the same taper (80, f150, & GM 1 ton). 1.5" per foot, where it gets weird is how far down the taper you go. I have reamed Toyota steering arms to fit GM 1 ton TRE's they work fantastic. It gets tricky with high steer arms as they put the drag link and tie-rod so close together, I have even done it to a few sets of high steer arms (allpro was the last set "I think")...

For what we do (wheeling) the bigger tre's (1 tons) are more appropriate and in my experience they last quite a bit longer with considerable abuse, and stay tighter. Best way I can relate it is think duty cycle.

 

[boots4]

If you don't mind me picking your brain:

Is there a GM 1ton TRE you recommend? I take it you believe they are stronger than the FJ80 joints. I've been researching and have a couple of model numbers but you may already know the best ones to use.

ES2026R, ES2027L (someone said the 27 is a different taper)
ES2234R, ES2233L
ES2010R&L

 

[Boing]

If you don't mind me picking your brain:

Is there a GM 1ton TRE you recommend? I take it you believe they are stronger than the FJ80 joints. I've been researching and have a couple of model numbers but you may already know the best ones to use.

ES2026R, ES2027L (someone said the 27 is a different taper)
ES2234R, ES2233L
ES2010R&L

ES2026, 27L are used for the drag link as they have more misalignment... they do have a different taper...

ES2234R, 33L are good for a tie-rod depending on your steering arm setup...
If you use these which are very strong than you need to have room on your passenger steering arm to accommodate the tie-rod and the draglink tre's. They get very close/rub depending the steering arms...


ES2233L "T" style steering...
Otherwise you can try and use the traditional cheby setup with the draglink tied into the tie-rod (so long as it clears your leaf springs... This setup is inclined to have very little bump steer, although fitting it can be a turd...


(In my opinion) I only limit suspension travel for two things steering bind (fairly obvious) and physical bind axle tube/tire contacting something I dont want. I don't like steering setups that hit before the axle tube because it can be built strong enough to take the hit... In factory frame applications low steer that is built right is hard to beat...



To answer your question, my preferred setup would be (ES2026, 27L) in the draglink ( with high steer arms, or 4x4 labs arms) with the drag link mounted almost flat at ride height.

Tie-rod would be (ES2234R, 33L), with traditional high steer arms (most common for mini truck ) the TRE's can rub at steering lock. Have to look at the arms and/or clearance the tre's or both .

I sure do miss these arms (Steering) as they really lend themselves to a proper setup. Just build the tie-rod out of something strong enough to take the hit (.250 or thicker DOM should work)...

 

[boots4]

Thanks Boing for the great info. I found some good pics on pirate to see what these all look like. I've got marlin's high steer kit and am running Trailsmear's hydroassist. I'll have to look at potential clearance issues with the 1-ton TREs on the passenger arm but I'd certainly like to get a little more life out of my TREs, plus I like the fact that these GM TREs are everywhere at a good price. I still like the idea of good quality hemi's though, especially since I'll have to make a new tierod either way.

 

[Boing]

If you decide to go Heims I would run nothing less than FK, they are my favorite. We run them on the race truck & they will usually make an entire 2 seasons before we replace them. Nothing else we have run even come close.... The heims on the race truck live in a very harsh environment, on a rock crawler/DD it should go for quite a bit longer...

Also you have some options on how to setup the Heim's, the tie-rod doesn't need misalignment spacers. And for the sake of spares you can run either all left hand (or right) heims so that you can carry one spare. Only thing is if you have to adjust you have to take it off, but being able to carry one spare far out ways the trouble.... (to me). Since Heim's aren't tapered they aren't hard to pull off...

 

[Boing]

I have been very busy working on the cruiser that we are going to unveil in Moab, so progress on my junk has been slow. (something about the shoe makers shoe’s comes to mind)

I have decided to raise the bottom of the frame to 24, so that once its aired down it will sit around 22-23. Also built and installed some plates that move the motor back 4" and down 2.75".

Recently I have been working on getting the knuckles installed, it has been a fiasco!

I picked up 25mm trunion bearings first had to bore out my steering arms to fit which isn’t a big deal. I found out shortly after boring open my steering arms that you can’t setup 25mm bearings with the SST. So drove the races back out and put in some original arms with new small bearings.

Something I noticed when parts were setting on the counter is that the 25mm trunion bearings and races aren’t the same height as the originals.

After I got my measurements written down I drove out the old races and re-mounted the 25mm races. Started setup on new six shooter knuckles and found out that the knuckle was machined very small where the arm and lower cap go in. Passenger knuckle was about 2thou to tight on the lower, and about 5 thou to tight on the upper. Driver knuckle was 3 thou to tight on the lower and 4 thou to tight on the upper! So after about 8 hours of sanding and honing I have arms that fit like butter. Then I go to put in the studs and find that they are ridiculously tight and have lots of crud in the threads. Whip out a couple taps and work all the holes in the knuckle, every hole looks perfect now however got a lot of material out of each. My knuckles must have been the end of a run because the machine work was terrible. I now have about 10 hours of work (in addition to the cost) into these knuckles, they better not break!

 

[Slowerthanu]

I have been very busy working on the cruiser that we are going to unveil in Moab, so progress on my junk has been slow. (something about the shoe makers shoe’s comes to mind)

I have decided to raise the bottom of the frame to 24, so that once its aired down it will sit around 22-23. Also built and installed some plates that move the motor back 4" and down 2.75".

Recently I have been working on getting the knuckles installed, it has been a fiasco!

I picked up 25mm trunion bearings first had to bore out my steering arms to fit which isn’t a big deal. I found out shortly after boring open my steering arms that you can’t setup 25mm bearings with the SST. So drove the races back out and put in some original arms with new small bearings.

Something I noticed when parts were setting on the counter is that the 25mm trunion bearings and races aren’t the same height as the originals.

After I got my measurements written down I drove out the old races and re-mounted the 25mm races. Started setup on new six shooter knuckles and found out that the knuckle was machined very small where the arm and lower cap go in. Passenger knuckle was about 2thou to tight on the lower, and about 5 thou to tight on the upper. Driver knuckle was 3 thou to tight on the lower and 4 thou to tight on the upper! So after about 8 hours of sanding and honing I have arms that fit like butter. Then I go to put in the studs and find that they are ridiculously tight and have lots of crud in the threads. Whip out a couple taps and work all the holes in the knuckle, every hole looks perfect now however got a lot of material out of each. My knuckles must have been the end of a run because the machine work was terrible. I now have about 10 hours of work (in addition to the cost) into these knuckles, they better not break!

Thats disheartening, I just threw a coat of paint on mine in preparation for my 4x4 labs arms, heres to hoping they fit.

 

[Boing]

Since I like posts with pictures...

Sanding the trunnion bores then honing, then sanding, then honing, rinse wash repeat...

All done just after some brake clean.

Starting to test assemble...

Only thing left to do now is to put the knuckles on the axle to test the preload on the trunnion bearings and make a tie-rod to check for clearance. Then back to CAD...

Pictures of the motor mount plates I made to hold the motor in its new position (4" back 2.5" down). Top bellhousing bolt is 37.5" off the ground, trying to keep the COG lower if at all possible.

For reference with the axle 7" forward, and me wanting alot of up travel in this older pic you can see the top of the axle and the bottom fan blade in contact. Also this picture the axle is not at full stuff yet...

 

[RLMS]

I see a fancy electrical sub pannel in the background

progress, is nice

 

[daveIT]

Cruise Moab is over...get back to work! Quick before you get another rig to resto...