Rear drum brake help

[Strick]

Hi guys,

I recently rebuilt my rear drum brakes including having the drums machined. Now its happened twice and Ive had to remove the handbrake cable so hopefully it doesnt happen again as a stop gap. After driving around for a day, including stopping starting eg using the handbrake, the auto adjust continues to adjust out the shoes constantly. Ive had a look twice now and I cant see why it would continue to auto adjust. Ive inluded some pics so please if you can see what ive done wrong let me know.

Or even if you have something to suggest that I could check to see what could fix it. I cant see a damn thing wrong!!

 

[rat]

assuming the self-adjusters are over-tightening your brake-shoes until they bind on the drums? I've taken self-adjusters out to prevent this. It means you must manually adjust the shoes periodically. Cruiser drum brakes are an art, not a science!

 

[Spike Strip]

Did you replace all the springs/hardware ?

Adjusters on the correct side (they are L and R) ?

 

[FJ60Seth]

What Spike said.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

If the adjusters were installed on the wrong side, wouldn't that do the opposite of his issue and not tighten?

Could the issue be in the wheel cylinder? Maybe the cylinders are bad and not releasing pressure when he takes his foot off the brake?

Strick,
Is this happening to both sides or is it pulling to one side when you brake indicating it's only one side?

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Check Bellcrank adjustment?

 

[Freewheel]

Hi Strick. Yes I know what is wrong with your adjuster, and I wrecked a couple drums before I figured it out- and no-where have I found the correct answer online, despite it being a somewhat common problem with Toyota brakes.

In your 6th picture, the auto adjuster arm is being held on to its pin by a thin E clip. This is not the correct fastener- if you get a proper brake kit, there will be a small bendable C clip like the one below holding on the E-brake lever. (only smaller)

The C clip is thicker and fills the entire slot in the pin that holds the auto-adjuster. The thin E-clip that you have in there now, will allow the auto- adjuster arm to twist and start pulling too far on the adjuster star wheel, which will over tighten your drums.

Really subtle and it drove me crazy for months until I noticed that everyone online who had this problem and showed pictures had used an E clip instead of the correct one. It can also happen when the c clip gets worn thin with age... You'll find a number of posts where people got frustrated and ended up replacing every single brake component to fix the problem- and that worked- I think what happened is they finally got all the correct bits in the rebuild bag and actually used the correct C clip!

 

[Output Shaft]

^^
It is supposed to be an e-ring according to the Toyota description. (But maybe that's just the description)

PN: 90080-52087

 

[Output Shaft]

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Just completed mine today including breaking down the bell cranks.

Once I get the cylinders installed I will zero out the adjustment (loose as you can make it) and then operate the E-brake handle through its cycle about 15-20 times to get everything where it should be. All springs should have been replaced. This has never failed me.

J

 

[Freewheel]

Hi Output Shaft- I see what you are seeing in the Parts diagram, and I can't argue with your evidence. But, though it's a bit blurry, if you look carefully at Reevesci's photos you will see that the adjuster arm has the proper golden metal little C clip on it, as I described.

I suppose it's possible that there is a proper thickness toyota "E" clip for that part, but a random sized thin E clip from the hardware store will definitely cause this over adjusting problem.

This problem is probably is not helped by reusing the old adjuster arm, which could be worn a bit thin after 30 years. The C clip is bit bendier and can fill the gap a bit better and keep the side to side play to a minimum.
Anyway - it worked for me and its only the cost of a C clip to test it!

 

[FJ60Seth]

If the adjusters were installed on the wrong side, wouldn't that do the opposite of his issue and not tighten?

Could the issue be in the wheel cylinder? Maybe the cylinders are bad and not releasing pressure when he takes his foot off the brake?

Strick,
Is this happening to both sides or is it pulling to one side when you brake indicating it's only one side?

Sigh yes you're right.

 

[red66toy]

C clip!

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

I actually took the E-clip off and replaced with the C-clip. Always have.

One side had the E and the other had the C....

J

 

[Output Shaft]

Now for the technical minutiae...

The reason that aftermarket drum kits are selling that C shaped washer instead of the correct Toyota e-clip retainer is because they are pulling a fast one on their customers to save 2 bucks ea. It's not the correct part, though it seems to work... Until it doesn't.
The c-washer is made of soft malleable steel that is designed to bend. It's a bendable open washer. The e-clip is made of spring steel that does not bend and is designed to retain grooved shafts.

Although that C-washer fits that groove in the end of the the shaft, it wasn't designed to be used there and Toyota deemed an e-clip to be the safest retainer to use.

But guys are not losing their brakes driving down mountain passes with that c-washer installed , so the argument is likely more academic than life threatening.... but still.. $2

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Not sure how the E-clips hold up in a non- salt/brine/mag chloride winter climate. But almost every E-clip I've ever removed has broken into pieces. The C-clips are almost always able to be re-used if need be.

I've actually had E-clips missing, but the parts were still together.

Not sure if the ones I've come across are non-OEM, possible zinc steel vs. stainless (if OEM are stainless)??

J

 

[Output Shaft]

That's good to know. Maybe that's why they've been switched over in the kits.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

That's good to know. Maybe that's why they've been switched over in the kits.

I don't know if I've ever replaced drum brakes, on any vehicle, where the kit didn't come with the C-clips.

J

 

[Strick]

Gday all,

thanks for all the replys. I changed out the cylinders while i did the re-build so they should be ok.

The C-clip makes alot of sense. When I took them apart, this side had an extra washer under the e-clip, which would indicate that the auto adjuster was moving, however I didnt put 2 and 2 together.

I have done a quick fix and slightly bent the adjuster so it is just on the adjusting wheel, however I will find somewhere to by a c-clip and replace it on both sides. Thanks very much, really appreciate the help.

 

[Freewheel]

Not sure how the E-clips hold up in a non- salt/brine/mag chloride winter climate. But almost every E-clip I've ever removed has broken into pieces. The C-clips are almost always able to be re-used if need be.

I've actually had E-clips missing, but the parts were still together.

Not sure if the ones I've come across are non-OEM, possible zinc steel vs. stainless (if OEM are stainless)??

J

+1

I've found E clips in the bottom of the drum, or disappeared, as well.