Re-Gear ? 1fz-fe sweet spot for MPG?

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I'm not gearing for mileage but if there is a choice between 4.88 and 4.56 and one puts me at 2200 and the other at 3000rpm It would be best to optimize the sweet spot if possible. While also considering my first range ratio and my low range crawl ratio. If I can get the info I will play with it and let you all know what I come up with. I'm trying to optimize the truck for best all around performance on and off road. There are a lot of variables to monkey with here.
 
4.56 & 4.88 is only going to be about a 150 rpm difference at highway speed. 4.56 & 315 is a dead on match for stock rpms. 4.88 is just very slight bit lower, and helps compensate for other factors such as wind resistance, rolling mass, etc. There's not much of a "sweet" spot. Unless you consider 14mpg sweet:)


I'm not gearing for mileage but if there is a choice between 4.88 and 4.56 and one puts me at 2200 and the other at 3000rpm It would be best to optimize the sweet spot if possible. While also considering my first range ratio and my low range crawl ratio. If I can get the info I will play with it and let you all know what I come up with. I'm trying to optimize the truck for best all around performance on and off road. There are a lot of variables to monkey with here.
 
Go with the 4.88's if not 5.29's. If the rpms are too high then just go with larger tires.
 
I'm not gearing for mileage but if there is a choice between 4.88 and 4.56 and one puts me at 2200 and the other at 3000rpm It would be best to optimize the sweet spot if possible. While also considering my first range ratio and my low range crawl ratio. If I can get the info I will play with it and let you all know what I come up with. I'm trying to optimize the truck for best all around performance on and off road. There are a lot of variables to monkey with here.

I have read on this forum that going with 4.56 from 4.11's will be so minimal it will hardly have an effect on overall performance.

OTOH, if you are doing a lot of highway driving, you may like the mileage you will gain from stock gearing with oversized tires. I am running 315s with stock gearing, and on the highway I can gain about 60 total miles per tank vs. city driving. On the highway, I usually travel at ~70MPH, with an average of about 60MPH.
 
The ideal RPM is right around 2k for cruising.

Not in my neighborhood. I get 13-14 mpg on 37's highway cruising with 5.29's. At my elevation, I am at lightest throttle from 2,600 - 2,800 RPM. At lower elevations where there is not the power loss, I'd rather cruise at 2,400-2,600, but I don't have lower elevations where I drive my 80.

My mpg was worse at lower RPM's, although I was undergeared at that point which compounded the issue.

There is no one answer, but you should not be trying to solve for mpg. You should be solving for having your engine running within the power curve required for your environment.

I run 5.29's for a very explicit reason: I don't want to cruise materially over 70 mph, so I don't need top end headroom in my gearing range. Everything else works better for me 0-70 with the lower gears, from hardcore crawling up to cruising speeds.

Get the 315's and 4.88's and drop the idea of figuring out mpg. You have a wonderfully inefficient engine and there is next to nothing you go do to affect this that would justify the spend involved.

If you are going 33's, keep the stock gears and get a yellow box speedo adjustment or comparable.
 
I'm not gearing for mileage but if there is a choice between 4.88 and 4.56 and one puts me at 2200 and the other at 3000rpm It would be best to optimize the sweet spot if possible. While also considering my first range ratio and my low range crawl ratio. If I can get the info I will play with it and let you all know what I come up with. I'm trying to optimize the truck for best all around performance on and off road. There are a lot of variables to monkey with here.


If that were true, then anybody here that had a "rubber overdrive" would NOT have WORSE mileage...

There is still a load, and burden on the vehicle to overcome drag and use mechanical advantage to propel itself down the road.

Engines have efficient RPMs or Torque curves where they do the least amount of work and produce the most amounts of power.

A gas is not a Diesel, and a Diesel is not a gas.

It's prolly where the engineers put the gears.

Now add over diameter tires and you do the same thing as changing your gear to a higher one and you take the engine out of it's optimal rpm range.

The catch 22 is, you substitute drag and lower rpms for higher rpms and less drag...

It's a no win situation... Like any post regarding Power, or MPG and the FzJ80.

Take my advise and take the thing for what it is. The best 4WD SUV ever made. And it does come at a cost... MPG.

And the longevity of the engine comes at a price... Less power. B/c the more power you have the more you stress engine internals and wear the internals.

Put whatever gears you want in it. They're too expensive to gear for MPG because you'll see little to no difference.
 
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Yep, it's called rubber overdrive. For better cruising mileage something like a 3.80ish gear would probably be better, but not available.


Now see, I thought the FzJ80 had a 3:90 gear this whole time...

I know the gear is a 4:10-11, but the Fj80 had it to, right?

But a 3Fe 80 had? 28's stock?

So how can the final drives be the same in two LC's with different outer diameter tires and the same gear ratios?


(and I could be wrong... But I thought the Fz came with 31's and the Fj 28's)
 
Now see, I thought the FzJ80 had a 3:90 gear this whole time...

I know the gear is a 4:10-11, but the Fj80 had it to, right?

But a 3Fe 80 had? 28's stock?

So how can the final drives be the same in two LC's with different outer diameter tires and the same gear ratios?


(and I could be wrong... But I thought the Fz came with 31's and the Fj 28's)
To state the obvious. If the the trannies/overdrive are geared the same then the 3fe 80 would indeed have a lower final drive by virtue of its factory rubber.
 
Yes, but 1, I don't know for certain I'm right.

And 2, there will be those that say the FzJ80 come with 4:10-11's and 31's...

IF I am right, that is not the case, and the FzJ never really came with 4:11's.

IIRC, the sticker on the door jam of MY 3Fe Fj80 said factory tires were 225/75x15.

And it would fit with my statement about factory FzJ's being geared too high from the factory and everybody else's problems w/ power when swapping out for bigger meats...
 
Didn't the fj80's come with something bigger than a 225/75, I thought they came with a 31x10.5.
 
specify your "Fj" please.

Fj's came w/ 15" rims. FzJ's, 16's... hence the more metric sizes.

Again, Fj is 3Fe.

Again, FzJ is 1Fz

Same tranny till 94 or 95... A440/A442:flipoff2: Same planetary geared 1st, torque rating. "school bus tranny"

96-97 had the A343.
 
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specify your "fj" please.

Fj's came w/ 15" rims. Fzj's, 16's... Hence the more metric sizes.

Again, fj is 3fe.

Again, fzj is 1fz

same tranny till 94 or 95... A440.

96-97 had the a343.

91-92 = a440f
93-94 = a442f
95-97 = a343f
 
for your elevation of 0', 315s and 4.56 is a good combo. You can install the 4.56s now, run 285s and when/if you go to 315s, your engine will run in the sweet spot as designed. I ran 4.56s when I lived near Chicago.
 
This might be of interest.

Toyota geared the overseas FZJ105s with 4.30 gears. The FZJ105 being the 100 series with basically a 80 series frame and suspension and the 1FZ engine, but also included a 5 speed manual tranny, which had even lower gears than our 4 speed auto, including overdrive. So, for whatever reason, Toyota felt it was necessary to have the 105 run at a higher rpm at highway speeds with this vehicle and the same engine as us.

My guess is the one factor nobody has really brought up in detail. Weight. The 105 weighes a lot more than the 80 series. And most of us that modify our rigs...even with just 33s, probably have a lot more weight than a stock 80, by virtue of winches, bumpers, extra gear.

Add a lot of weight and suddenly the engine is falling out of it's effeciency band to push the same vehicle at the same speed at the same rpms. Effeciency is not just a product of rpms. It's also product of how much fuel the engine has to burn at a given rpm, which is determined, among other things, by throttle position.

So, lowering rpms or raising rpms doesn't necessarily improve gas mileage all by itself.

If one adds a ton of weight to an 80, like the roughly 1700lbs I've added and then adds taller tires to boot, regearing is going to be necessary to return the engine to at least some of its former operating effeciency. Although it will never return 100%, since the engine will always require more fuel to perform the same amount of work at a given speed, no matter what, due to the added weight.

But when regearing, one should probably take more into account than just the tire size difference. The difference between 33s and 31s (in my case) is about 6.5%. But I've added 24% more weight. Obviously, the weight difference is not linier like it is with the tires, but that's a pretty significant factor.

By my calculations, 4.30 gears would compensate for the tire size increase. While 4.56 gears should copmensate properly for the added weight, meaning for at least my purposes, 4.56 or 4.88 gears would probably be the better choice.

I don't know how regearing affects perceived drivability in the 80, because the 80 has a lot of excess power, even though many of us don't really see that. But in the far less powerful Toyota mini-trucks that I come from, regearing, even moderately, from 4.10s to 4.56s makes a WORLD of difference when compensating for taller tires. While I ran a variety of different tire sizes and gear ratios, at one point I was running 5.29s and 33s and it made a huge improvement, but the 22RE engine I was running operated very effeciently at a much higher rpm than our 1FZ is probably used too.
 
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When I was on 315's and stock gears, I'd get 15-16 mpg on the high way at about 65 mph. When I went to the 4.88's it dropped to 14-15 mpg highway. I think the lower the RPM at highway cruise speed, to an extent of course, means the less fuel consumed.

Same here. Lost about 1mpg on highway more around town.
 
Take a look see what you think.

315/75/16 - 4.88 @ 65

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 65
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 602
8 Axle ratio 4.88
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,435

285/75/16 - 4.88 @ 65

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 65
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 634
8 Axle ratio 4.88
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,564

315/75/16 - 4.56 @ 65
1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 65
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 602
8 Axle ratio 4.56
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,275

285/75/16 - 4.56 @ 65

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 65
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 634
8 Axle ratio 4.56
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,396




315/75/16 - 4.88 @ 75

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 75
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 602
8 Axle ratio 4.88
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,809


285/75/16 - 4.88 @ 75

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 75
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 634
8 Axle ratio 4.88
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,959


315/75/16 - 4.56 @ 75
1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 75
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 602
8 Axle ratio 4.56
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,625


285/75/16 - 4.56 @ 75

1 Engine governed speed 4,500
2 High gear ratio 0.765
3 Max mph or hwy cruise speed 75
4 Desired Engine RPM (sweet spot - lower range) 2,200
5 Primary operating MPH 65
6 Transmission ratio @ primary operating MPH 0.765
7 Tire revs/mile 634
8 Axle ratio 4.56
9 Engine RPM @ Max MPH 2,765
 
With a max speed of 75 and primary operating at 65 with 315/75/16 the axle optimizer said closest to 4.41 for optimized RPM of 2200. So 4.56 looks about right here.

with a max speed of 75 and primary operating at 65 with 285/75/16 the axle optimizer said closest to 4.19 for optimized RPM of 2200. So stock 4.10 looks about right here.
 
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with a max speed of 75 and primary operating at 65 with 285/75/16 the axle optimizer siad closest to 4.19 for optimized RPM of 2200. So stock 4.10 looks about right here.


punch a 255 or 265/75 in there and see what you get...;)

you can flirt with aspect ratios too, if a tire won't come in that exact size.


I don't picture you going offroad so I think a smaller tire will help you out and get you better MPG..

oh, and get you into that "sweet spot":D
 

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