Re-Gear ? 1fz-fe sweet spot for MPG?

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I have nitro 4.88's from Carl @ JTs Parts & Accessories, Justdifferentials.com Mud Vendor
I'm on stock tires for the moment but am going 35's soon. I run around 2600rpm at 65mph(stock 31 mich LTX) and don't drive faster than that anyway.
I got gears F&R, master bearing kits F&R and knucle rebuild kits, solid spacers F&R for right around $1100 shipped.

This is what came out of my front end.
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104

How about running leaded 104 in the 1fze? Would that be better for mileage? I have some local really cheap(about the same price as premium)

Bingo.

The ideal RPM is right around 2k for cruising. Some of the best mileage I've gotten was with 35's and stock gears running premium. Got almost 19 MPG, heavily loaded, with lots of climbs.

Of course then I went taller (33mm spacers) and my MPG dropped from 14-16 regularly to 12-14. :crybaby:

If you want MPG, drop your gearing, drop your lift, drop your weight, drop your speed, and increase the octane of the fuel.
 
How about running leaded 104 in the 1fze? Would that be better for mileage? I have some local really cheap(about the same price as premium)

The ECU will automatically advance the timing of the engine to take advantage of higher octane fuel.

Will it go high enough to run 104? No idea....
 
How about running leaded 104 in the 1fze? Would that be better for mileage? I have some local really cheap(about the same price as premium)

Lead very bad for catalytic converter. Will render it useless.
 
The ECU will automatically advance the timing of the engine to take advantage of higher octane fuel.
....

I didn't know that our ECU is that smart. Do you know how it does that or have a FSM page that I can look at?

Thanks.
 
I didn't know that our ECU is that smart. Do you know how it does that or have a FSM page that I can look at?

Thanks.

There's a couple of articles on it.


IIRC according to the article on the 80sCool board the computer only sees the amount it advances, not total advance. Supposedly the computer doesn't know where it is starting from.

http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/timing.html

The link doesn't seem to be working right now, so here is a cut and paste from the article.

Ignition timing for the 1FZ-FE 4500cc petrol motor

This modification deviates from the manufacturer's specifications. This is not endorsed by Toyota. You are liable for anything and everything to do with your 80 Series if you modify it.
The twin cam 4500cc 80 Series motor has quite a conservative factory ignition timing spec. Probably due to the fact that they are prone to pinging without the "mechanically barren" driver knowing it. They are built with a knock sensor which retards the ignition timing when it logs a number of knocks in quick succession. The engine ECU does not keep a log of knocking (as opposed to almost anything else to do with the vehicle).
The ECU adjusts the ignition advance relative to the base timing given a number of inputs from other sensors feeding it information. It however has no concept of total advance. This means that with additional advance, the ignition timing retains the additional advance right through the rev range.
You do have the ability to gain some power, especially off the mark and at lower revs as well as better fuel economy by advancing the ignition timing. The quality of fuel however plays an important role in how successful this mod is.
All you will need is a paper clip, an ignition timing light and a 12mm spanner.
Firstly, make sure the engine's at normal operating temperature and that the A/C is off. Connect the timing light to plug lead No 1 and check the ignition timing. It's probably around 10 deg BTDC under normal ECU control.
Switch the engine off, remove the key and locate the ECU service plug. Using the bent paper clip, short out the E1 and TE1 terminals. Confirm that the contact is made by turning the ignition on and on most models, the engine check dash lamp will blink.
Start the engine and check ignition timing (now in service mode). The standard timing is 3deg BTDC and is marked on the timing chain cover. If the timing is unchanged from when you previously checked (around 10 deg) it means that the terminals E1 and TE1 have not be shorted.
Loosen the distributor bolt and advance the timing to 6 or 7 deg (Australian spec. Maybe the same for other countries). Tighten the distributor bolt and check the timing again.
Turn the engine off, remove the key and remove the paper clip. Check the ignition timing again (now under ECU control) and it should read anywhere between 0deg - 16deg BTDC.
Road test paying particular attention to any knocking sounds from the motor with the accelerator floored at ~2,000 rpm. If it does knock, then retard the timing. Knocking or pinging is often affected by the quality of petrol (gas), altitude and/or carbon deposits in the combustion chamber. If it doesn't ping, you can experiment with more advance, however anything over 10 deg BTDC is considered to be a lot for this motor.
If the ignition is over advanced and the knock sensor signals that the timing is to be retarded, then you will actually lose on performance (and economy) since it retards in large steps.
Each engine is different as are fuels from different suppliers. Fuels also vary in quality throughout the year.
When well adjusted, you'll notice the extra power.




Based on the 1993 article about the "new" 1FZ's engine management system and my limited knowledge of octane and engines, this appears to be what's going on....correct me if I'm wrong....

Even though 9 to 1 compression seems low by today's standards, it's really not that low and most engines are only able to run on the standard octane gas, because the timing is retarded to prevent pinging and other issues, which is where power is lost.

The 1FZ with its duel knock sensors and new engine management system can run the higher octane fuel with the engine timing advanced and providing more power and possibly smoother operation, while the duel knock sensors prevent damage by sensor potential problems from all 6 cylinders. Since the engine can run more advanced, there is more power.

It's not about more energy or less energy in the different octane fuels giving more power, it's about whether or not the engine can run at peak effeciency and more advanced timing without risking damage.

Also, another thing to consider. Small piston aircraft gas engines use 100 or 130 octane fuel, yet have fairly low 6 or 7 to 1 compression ratios on many models.

By the way, my 22RE pings like a mad monkey on low octane fuel. But part of the problem, I'm sure, is carbon deposits on the pistons over the years, even though I've cleaned out the combustion chambers multiple times.


From my research, the 1FZ is most likely designed to run at peak performance at an octane level of around 96+, not 87. (U.S. octane measurement, not RON) 87 is the minimum. It can run adequately on 87, because it has a superior knock sensing system, using twin knock sensors and a superior engine management system with wider parameters than most other engines, especially from that period, but is designed to run peak performance with a higher octane fuel.

With the higher octane fuel, the engine management system can advance the timing to a more efficient level without risk of detonation and this is where the increase in h.p., drivability and fuel economy comes from. The engine also probably runs slightly cooler.

Many engines with knock sensors will not advance the timing to the point of taking advantage of the higher octane fuel, even with similiar compression to our 1FZ, because the knock sensors are only for back up and the timing curve is still set conservatively to reduce the risk of detonation on low octane fuel, especially in conditions that promote knock, such as higher temps, etc. These engines are designed to run on around 87 octane or maybe slightly higher, but the engineers did not risk allowing the engine to advance the timing to a level that would require 91 or higher, because if the knock sensor failed to do it's job, engine damage could result, if the engine was only using 87. Its sort of a fail safe mode for an inferior engine management system.

But the 1FZ is a superior engine with a superior management system that was specificly designed to run a variety of fuels in a variety of conditions, since it was primarily a truck/commercial engine to be used all over the world in the 70 and 80 series Land Cruisers.

9 to 1 compression is actually not as low as some believe and all things considered, a 9 to 1 engine without engine management, will perform best on around 96 octane, but engine management systems, like the 1FZ, will allow the engine to run on lower octane fuel when that’s all that is available and run close to peak at a level lower than 96. Engines that have very high compression, like 10 or 11 to 1, even with engine management systems, are probably not taking full advantage of their potential even on 93 octane and probably could see signficant gains if running 100 or higher, assuming their engine managment systems are not limited and would be allowed to compensate.

Newer Toyota engines, that use similar systems to the 1FZ actually have in the owner’s manual, the following statement, even though they can still run 87 octane.

“For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended.”

Whether the increased performance or mileage or engine longevity, whatever that amounts too, justifies the higher cost, is entirely another question. I have no idea. The difference between 87 and 91 is probably minimal, but if you started getting up to 93 or even 96, it might be fairly signficant. But most Americans are limited to around 91 or 92 at best, with some 93. Unless you used octane additives, which are pretty expensive.

But one thing is certain…the 1FZ definitely can take advantage of higher octane fuel, while running adequately and safely on a minimum 87. Many other engines cannot.

Here’s some VERY interesting reading here……

7. What parameters determine octane requirement?
 
excellent info, thanks.
 

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