Ram assist steering and a locked diff (1 Viewer)

[texast6]

Haven't come across the info i need in search, so here goes. I have an fj60 that is 90% used on trails, the rear has an easy locker and the front is welded up, ( had ez locker in front was not satisfied) . Also has a Saginaw power steering pump. if the truck is in 4wd the trail is bad enough to be locked all the way around. Obviously steering is a nightmare, my question is will ram assist make fully locked steering bearable, or should i bite the bullet and go with an arb air locker, (hope not, too many $$$ and aside from steering I'm very happy with the front welded.) thank you for your thoughts in advance.

 

[boots4]

I have been satisfied with the turning power with ram assist when I have my front end locked. Since yours is mainly a wheeler you might get away with a slightly bigger ram to give you more assist. The trade off is turning speed, meaning bigger rams don't respond as quick.

 

[Mace]

Any locker in the front will make steering difficult. Switching to a 2" diameter ram will solve your issues nicely.

The slow thing is relative. With hydro assist and a 2" ram when you are stopped, it can take a very short period of time to "start" turning. This is due to the ram and the PS box slightly arguing right off the bat. When you are rolling you won't notice it.

Win win situation honestly. I have a 1.5" ram on my 60 with 35's and is mostly street. I don't notice it till I'm steering on the trail when others can't..

 

[texast6]

Thank you for the info, sounds like ram assist is gonna happen sooner than later. Did yall buy a kit or source the parts one at a time

 

[Mace]

I built my setup.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi all,

Mace, can you share with us which parts you choose for the ram assist on your 60 Series?
I am considering doing it on my 40 which has a auto-locked front axle and Saginaw PS.

Thanks,

Alan

 

[rusty_tlc]

With hydro assist there is a good chance you will damage your steering arms eventually, unless you upgrade to six shooters so factor that in.

I'm an ARB guy, love them wouldn't build a trail rig without them. I have a PSC hydro assist that came with the Saginaw conversion kit I got, it is not installed and so far I haven't needed it. We'll see how that goes with the 37" IROKs.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Hi all,

Mace, can you share with us which parts you choose for the ram assist on your 60 Series?
I am considering doing it on my 40 which has a auto-locked front axle and Saginaw PS.

Thanks,

Alan

Good question, I've seen home brew set-ups that were not only useless but completely unsafe on the highway.

 

[Tapage]

I have 1.5 ram with PSC pump and ARB front, I'm pretty, but pretty happy on how it performs .. I can turn my 40" in Tencha with one finger in almost any situation ..

 

[Stoffregen M-Sports]

PSC is about the only company that sells complete kits. I have had some problems with their pumps in the past, but I still use them.

You could put a Detroit up front and the welded diff in the rear. It would help out with steering for sure.

 

[BionicCruiser]

I hated my auto locker up front of the 40. a longer wheel base would be worse IMHO. it would push sideways on turning in rocks even if I had it full lock. the ARB is a must for me personally. I won't put a full lock only up front again, it was that bad. if you've wheeled rocks already and know how your rig reacts, then you know what the potential problems are. if you don't wheel rocks, I don't know the reaction of a truck in those conditions. I would think understeer is bad then too, but maybe not as bad. just my personal experience.

 

[Mace]

Hi all,

Mace, can you share with us which parts you choose for the ram assist on your 60 Series?
I am considering doing it on my 40 which has a auto-locked front axle and Saginaw PS.

Thanks,

Alan

I went with a el cheapo 1.5" ram, custom length hoses, and I drilled the ps box myself (this is on my 60). The spherical rod ends on the ram suck and have developed a reasonable amount of play them. I need to replace them. Honestly, it's a very simple setup..

With hydro assist there is a good chance you will damage your steering arms eventually, unless you upgrade to six shooters so factor that in.

I'm an ARB guy, love them wouldn't build a trail rig without them. I have a PSC hydro assist that came with the Saginaw conversion kit I got, it is not installed and so far I haven't needed it. We'll see how that goes with the 37" IROKs.

Steering arms die due to getting loose. Checking them every morning while wheeling significantly reduces any breakage.
I am using the stock, low steer arms on my 60. They have never loosened up. Also, when you set the ram up properly, you actually reduce the stress on the passenger side knuckle by mounting the ram as close to the drivers side knuckle as possible.

I personally don't see six shooters as mandatory with hydro assist. It's definitely a stronger setup, but lots of people have ha and stock knuckles.

Good question, I've seen home brew set-ups that were not only useless but completely unsafe on the highway.

What made them unsafe on the highway? Even home brew setups should be seamless on the highway.


The main concerns are that the ps box is drilled in the correct places. The ps pump can provide the volume necessary, the bend radius of the hoses is not too severe, and the ram is a reasonable quality..

Other than that, it's really not rocket science.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I went with a el cheapo 1.5" ram, custom length hoses, and I drilled the ps box myself (this is on my 60). The spherical rod ends on the ram suck and have developed a reasonable amount of play them. I need to replace them. Honestly, it's a very simple setup..



Steering arms die due to getting loose. Checking them every morning while wheeling significantly reduces any breakage.
I am using the stock, low steer arms on my 60. They have never loosened up. Also, when you set the ram up properly, you actually reduce the stress on the passenger side knuckle by mounting the ram as close to the drivers side knuckle as possible.

I personally don't see six shooters as mandatory with hydro assist. It's definitely a stronger setup, but lots of people have ha and stock knuckles.



What made them unsafe on the highway? Even home brew setups should be seamless on the highway.


The main concerns are that the ps box is drilled in the correct places. The ps pump can provide the volume necessary, the bend radius of the hoses is not too severe, and the ram is a reasonable quality..

Other than that, it's really not rocket science.

Good to know on the knuckles, maybe I'll get Chicago to help me weld on the ram I have in a box.

Bad homebrew set-ups; oversize ram, undersize pump, steering lag makes it tough to stay between the lines. Some guys get whatever hydraulic ram they can find off an old end loader or whatever.

 

[Mace]

Yeah, a 3" ag ram with a 10" throw would be no bueno

 

[hiluxjeremy]

I've got a mechanical locker up front and built my hydro setup after wheeling Moab for the first time. 1.75 bore .75 rod ram, simple pump mod to increase flow. I drive it everywhere and am very happy with results both on and off road. A good addition to a serious rig, and as with any modification, when properly executed should have absolute minimal negative impact on a vehicles overall performance while being a significant improvement in other areas.

 

[Mace]

Bad pictures..

Surplus center ram. Yeah, it was cheap..

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm still at a loss to decide on this very issue. I've seen the drilled boxes and understand how they work, what makes me curious is this - why not simply use a controller from either a Corvette or any of a number of Ford cars to control the power rack assist?

 

[Mace]

The old Ford hydro assist setups were prone to leaking and provided very little assist.

No clue on the Vette stuff other than a 30 second google search. But it looks overly complex.


The great benefit to HA is that it's easy to drill a PS box and you end up with a very simple system that is extremely robust. hose failures can be repaired in the field or simply by capping off the ports.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I am not sure how true this is because I haven't tested it, however, this is taken from Four Wheeler magazine here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1506-top-10-4x4-myths/

"Myth 1: You can’t Steer with a Detroit in the Front Axle Having an automatic locker in the front of your rig does make it more difficult to turn, but with power steering it is perfectly manageable and with hydraulic assist it is imperceptible. We often see people install a selectable locker in the front axle and an automatic locker in the rear axle, under the premise that the vehicle will turn better. What competition rockcrawlers have learned is that a locked rear axle tends to push the vehicle straight regardless of what direction the tires are turned. A selectable locker in the rear and an automatic locker up front actually provides better turning ability than with the automatic locker in the rear."

 

[Mace]

I'm not buying "imperceptible" but there is a huge difference.

I do agree that a selectable in the rear and auto in the front works better tho. It's just not as easy on Birfields.

Also is way better if you have cutting brakes or front dig..