Purchase and assembly and use of Langmuir Plasma Table (1 Viewer)

[workingdog]

So, I've bitten the bullet and bought a Langmuir crossfire pro. And all of it's parts have arrived this week.

what people say is true, it arrives sporadically over about a month and there's no way to really tell when every thing arrives. But, I checked with them, it's all here.
I bought this because the reviews online are decent and it's about half the price of the STV, which seems to be it's major competitor.

I'm only going to use this for my projects - not start a business. I can't really justify it financially. It just seemed like the next step in the evolution of my shop. I've been using SendCutSend a lot, but with my own table, I'll be making parts for my builds (EV fj45, 1953 Dodge M37) and for other things likes signs and smokers).

Although I believe you can use any modeler you want, and their table software is designed to work with Fusion 360. And Fusion 360 has a full manufacturing section including the ability to do toolpaths and generate G-code for the table. Which is awesome.

So, I've been getting up to speed on Fusion 360. I've never done 3d modeling. I do some 2d modeling in Q-cad, and it's been quite the learning curve. Thanks god for youtube and online tutors. I have now have parts ready for the smoker and the EV fj45. Firebox (inner and outer), collector, gauge cluster and some other things.

The other things about Langmuir systems is that they don't answer the phone, but their email support is decent. But you're not getting immediate help. Also, most people report their shipment missing something, but mine appears to have everything so far.

The Crossfire Pro is a little smaller than the equivalent STV system, I'll live with that. I ordered it with Z axis control and with limit switches - which are things that they should just include and raise the price. I also ordered it with the $800 plasma cutter they sell with it. I did that rather than use my Miller plasma torch because the reviews of how they work together were good (despite the plasma cutter being a cheap Chinese cutter). It's setup as a table cutter and this way I won't have to take the table apart and put it back together every time I want to use my plasma separately.

I spent last night and this morning getting the software all ready on my desktop and laptop. I have a rugged Dell laptop for EV fj45 that I'm going to use on the table. I'm hoping it will not have problems. I'm going to start assembly today, just the table, but I'm going to hopefully do the entire assembly this weekend and have it running on Sunday. Come by and lend a hand (Santa Rosa, CA).

 

[PIP]

I use Mastercam and F360. I am not a "learn from Youtube" kind of person. I was not doing well learning Fusion because they change it so often a good video from 3 months ago is obsolete WRT menus, functionality, etc. The thing I found that made all the difference in the world was to hire my friend's kid who is a CNC programmer by day using NX and uses Fusion for his home hobby stuff. I hired him for $40/hr to get me up to speed for a few hours early every Saturday morning. I was good to go after 3 Saturdays and a few dozen parts modeled and machined. Fusion is powerful, but real quirky and flakey compared to other pro software. It is counterintuitive on most stuff compared to Mastercam, but F360 costs a tiny fraction of Mastercam. That's why I got into it. I needed some toolpaths that my standard Mastercam wouldn't do. And I wasn't going to pay thousands to upgrade for one job.

Also, I've run a CNC machine shop for 17 years. I've had a lot of computers in my shop hooked to machines. Laptops are not a great choice. They don't ever seem to have good lifespan VS investment ratio. For office type computers I use the lower cost dell desktops. For powerful CAD/CAM computers I use a local computer guy I found on Craigslist. I give him a list of the software it needs to run and he finds the specs and assembles two desktops with big monitors and bits for around $400 total. I always buy two identical CAD/CAM computers since I lost a hard drive years ago. One goes kaput and 5 minutes later you're back in business, all software is already loaded and ready to work. Just load your backed up info and your off. For a hobby that may not be important, but it sure saves a ton of frustration for a small investment.

 

[workingdog]

So, @Andrew Vincent drove an hour yesterday and spend the entire day from 9 to 4 helping me and it made a HUGE difference. We got the entire table assembled and working in one day. Only made one, two, three mistakes (that we know of so far). But, we were able to backtrack and fix all of them.

We were able to fire up the table and get it to move, and it does move manually in the software just fine (after we figured out that we'd installed 2 of the lead screw brackets backwards and the lead screws was bending horribly as it got near the end). But ... there's a problem with the Z-axis controller and a problem with with the limit switches and it doesn't home correctly. So, we weren't able to even run the break in program and we still haven't put the plasma unit in place. we ended up with a few extra parts, and I figure out that one set of stuff is for the torch height control, which I can do today, and one set, that looks like torch handle clamps, I'm going to have to ask Langmuir about. I've got an email into Langmuir, but I won't hear until tomorrow.

I've got one part ready to run in Fusion 360 and a couple more parts close to ready to run ... once I get a little more help from my Fusion 360 tutor.

If the coupler is bad on the Z axis control, I'm going to have to wait for a new part to arrive, so that will hold us up a few days. Hopefully, we'll the limit switch issue sorted on Monday and we'll be able to at least simulate cutting out a part.

 

[Andrew Vincent]

So, @Andrew Vincent drove an hour yesterday and spend the entire day from 9 to 4 helping me and it made a HUGE difference. We got the entire table assembled and working in one day. Only made one, two, three mistakes (that we know of so far). But, we were able to backtrack and fix all of them.

View attachment 3232581

View attachment 3232582
View attachment 3232583

We were able to fire up the table and get it to move, and it does move manually in the software just fine (after we figured out that we'd installed 2 of the lead screw brackets backwards and the lead screws was bending horribly as it got near the end). But ... there's a problem with the Z-axis controller and a problem with with the limit switches and it doesn't home correctly. So, we weren't able to even run the break in program and we still haven't put the plasma unit in place. we ended up with a few extra parts, and I figure out that one set of stuff is for the torch height control, which I can do today, and one set, that looks like torch handle clamps, I'm going to have to ask Langmuir about. I've got an email into Langmuir, but I won't hear until tomorrow.

I've got one part ready to run in Fusion 360 and a couple more parts close to ready to run ... once I get a little more help from my Fusion 360 tutor.

If the coupler is bad on the Z axis control, I'm going to have to wait for a new part to arrive, so that will hold us up a few days. Hopefully, we'll the limit switch issue sorted on Monday and we'll be able to at least simulate cutting out a part.

Haha - I hope I wasn’t pulling goofy faces like that ALL day. Fun stuff - your shop and builds rock. Thanks for lunch - happy to help out anytime.

 

[PAToyota]

I was not doing well learning Fusion because they change it so often a good video from 3 months ago is obsolete WRT menus, functionality, etc.

That's the one thing about Fusion that I absolutely hate - the whole cloud-based crap. Internet isn't great in the shop, so when it needs to "phone home" I have to disconnect the computer and haul it into the office - usually at the least convenient time. Then there are the automatic updates that don't go well and you lose hours (or days) trying to get it to work again.

I really wish everything wasn't moving to these subscription models. Let me buy the software and a maintenance plan for updates. If I don't renew the maintenance plan, then I at least have the last version of the software to continue with. And for a small operation I don't need the constant updates. I mean, the plasma table isn't going to update, so the software I had last year is going to do me just as well this year - and the next and the next...

But the table is definitely a game changer. Draw up a part and have it in your hand in a matter of minutes instead of days turnaround. This part was bent, sandblasted (for powdercoat), and then test fit (the rusty bolt marks) if you're wondering.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, the part finally arrived to fix the Z axis, and it's now working. While screwing with it, I found 2 things that still needed to be done despite having gone through the entire instructions - and one was connect the remote fire control to the plasma torch - that took a few minutes to figure out which cable needed to be connected. And, doing that, I found I was using the wrong bracket to mount the plasma head. But, the Z is working now and the torch is firing.



Also put a shelf under the table to hold the torch and the new computer.

Time to put water in the table and actually try to cut a part.

 

[PAToyota]

Also put a shelf under the table to hold the torch and the new computer.

I'd advise against this. Even with the water table, there is a fair amount of metallic dust from the cutting process that ends up coating everything. Put the computer in some sort of enclosure with filtered air and just have the keyboard and mouse outside. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, but it will help prolong the life of the computer.

 

[workingdog]

There is no place in that part of the shop that is not subject to lots of metal dust. Under the table is actually probably the best place to be.

The machine is running!!!

Here is the first cut - fj40 gauge cluster cut out for electric motor display panels. this test run was in steel, final product will be in aluminum.

 

[Andrew Vincent]

There is no place in that part of the shop that is not subject to lots of metal dust. Under the table is actually probably the best place to be.

The machine is running!!!

Here is the first cut - fj40 gauge cluster cut out for electric motor display panels. this test run was in steel, final product will be in aluminum.

View attachment 3242230

View attachment 3242231

View attachment 3242232

Looks great!

 

[workingdog]

So, been doing a lot of cutting, the thing works great. I'm getting the hang of it and the modelling software. I had been making it too complicated.

So, in preparation for make the firebox for my smoker build

I bought some 5/16 and 3/16 and 1/4" plate.

And now I realized that I can't move any of it onto the table. It's too effing heavy. I ordered one of those lifting magnets and with the tractor, if I take the ROPS off, I should be able to get a sheet into the back of the garage where the table is.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I've got one too. Loading material is always a pain. Gantry crane with a lifting magnet is my plan once I change my garage door to get the gantry to fit inside.

 

[PIP]

Vacuum cups work amazing too.

 

[workingdog]

I ended up putting a chain hoist in the rafters over the table - with a piece of steel spanning 4 trusses wide to spread the load. Works pretty good.

But, it's not for the faint of heart. I've already blown through one set of consumables, and it took me a while to figure that out. And now, I'm dealing with a voltage detection problem on the Z height control that means it can's sense if the torch is on or not. It was working fine, and now it's not? Apparently, voltage from the USB cable is confusing the controller? It only works now with unplugged laptop? I've ordered an isolator, but it's rarely just working fine.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Ferritic chokes on the USB cable fixed that for me.

 

[workingdog]

I've ordered an USB isolator.

 

[PAToyota]

The other thing is to have a dedicated ground rod for the table to make sure that there aren't issues there.

 

[workingdog]

The controller is carefully isolated from the actual table with a plastic spacer. Clearly, they learned that lesson a while ago.

 

[PIP]

The controller is carefully isolated from the actual table with a plastic spacer. Clearly, they learned that lesson a while ago.

Plastic doesn't do a thing for EMI.

 

[PAToyota]

Nor does it do anything for proper grounding.