Better price throw Toyota parts deals surprising
Poll on total brake failure in 100 series (5 Viewers)
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I bought one just now for my own landcruiser from these folks. I will be facing this issue in the next months to come I am sure. I have it in stock and ready to install or just change it when I have time just because of the mileage and time.
Good luck on getting yours done.
98-2000 my model coverage part number, there is a production date split on the 99 too.
$2,700 for a brake master R&R with Toyota brake fluid (must specify Toyota brake fluid, and hope they use) flush, bleed and new bleeder caps. Is a fair price.
Over the past 10 years. I've seen Dealership charge between $4,500 & $6,000 and INDY $3,500 to $4.500. Until just last week, where I heard of a quote for $2,700 from a Toyota Dealership.
If the Brake Master properly cared for, it can last 25 years or more.. Amortized is ~$100 a year. More than that it is the number one safety device, in any vehicle!. Don't skimp!
What does Properly Cared For mean:
Use only Toyota brake fluid, never overfill, flush ever ~3 years, make sure any leaks in system serviced as they result motor running excessively long, do not allow breather valve on bottom of motor to get cogged.
About 4 years ago, there was a shortage of Brake Master for the 100 series. Especially 98-99 masters. Retail prices listing, around $2,500 just for the Master w/booster. Booster assy alone were $1,300. Then suddenly all models became available and prices dropped. It is they only part I've seen, drop in price by Toyota.
IMHO it's a great deal. Get them while you can.
Note on breather valve on bottom of motor: I've seen a few clogged. I suspect this happens more in lifted rigs. Where the inner fender shirt shield missing or gives inadequate splash protecting. A good idea is to, extend these skits, to reduce engine bay splash. Also vehicle driven in deep water, up to lip of fender. If the booster motor is running, when submerged. It will suck water and debris. If this breather gets clogged. The vacuum the motor creates, will suck brake fluid from the pump into the motor. This is number 3 cause, on list of sudden brake failure.
Over the past 10 years. I've seen Dealership charge between $4,500 & $6,000 and INDY $3,500 to $4.500. Until just last week, where I heard of a quote for $2,700 from a Toyota Dealership.
If the Brake Master properly cared for, it can last 25 years or more.. Amortized is ~$100 a year. More than that it is the number one safety device, in any vehicle!. Don't skimp!
What does Properly Cared For mean:
Use only Toyota brake fluid, never overfill, flush ever ~3 years, make sure any leaks in system serviced as they result motor running excessively long, do not allow breather valve on bottom of motor to get cogged.
About 4 years ago, there was a shortage of Brake Master for the 100 series. Especially 98-99 masters. Retail prices listing, around $2,500 just for the Master w/booster. Booster assy alone were $1,300. Then suddenly all models became available and prices dropped. It is they only part I've seen, drop in price by Toyota.
IMHO it's a great deal. Get them while you can.
Note on breather valve on bottom of motor: I've seen a few clogged. I suspect this happens more in lifted rigs. Where the inner fender shirt shield missing or gives inadequate splash protecting. A good idea is to, extend these skits, to reduce engine bay splash. Also vehicle driven in deep water, up to lip of fender. If the booster motor is running, when submerged. It will suck water and debris. If this breather gets clogged. The vacuum the motor creates, will suck brake fluid from the pump into the motor. This is number 3 cause, on list of sudden brake failure.
hoser
SILVER Star
Just thinking out loud.... '16+ booster is cheaper and doesn't seem to have the sudden brake loss issues as the 100. Could be a potential swap. I'm sure the brakes will work. Just not sure the ABS can be made to work.
Does 16-up, still have a motor with brushes & commutator?
If so the only significant benefit, I can see. Would be in the redesign of the brake control wire. Its boots, seal-out brake fluid much better.
Just had to change my vote unfortunately.
2005 with 224,000 miles.
Not quite sure what’s actually broken as my speedometer started acting up this past week as well. The local dealership gave a quick quote of $4,500 for pump, master cylinder, and all labor. I’ll be dropping it off there this week to see what the actual problem is. At least the e-brake still works.
2005 with 224,000 miles.
Not quite sure what’s actually broken as my speedometer started acting up this past week as well. The local dealership gave a quick quote of $4,500 for pump, master cylinder, and all labor. I’ll be dropping it off there this week to see what the actual problem is. At least the e-brake still works.
hoser
SILVER Star
I can only assume the motor is the same style w/ brushes & commutator. The wire connections are certainly a better design. What I notice is there is no such thread like this one in the 200 section. And the '08-09's are getting up there in the 200k plus miles range and not really any talk about sudden brake failures.
For me, actually, after going 35's, I always felt the brakes need more boost/assistance. For the 100, at 44 lbf, it produces up to 1604 psi of front brake line pressure. For the 200, at 44 lbf, it produces 55% more brake pressure at 2489 psi.
2004 100 series booster
2016 200 series booster
I'd, not looked a pressures before. That's interesting! One thing for sure. Toyota engineers have work, to improve braking since 1940's.
The 03-07 have large front caliper pistons than the 98-02. Their front brakes pads wear at nearly twice the rate as 98-02s. That 98-02 even with stock tires, brakes are weak. IIRC they also increase pistons size again in 2008-11. Possible again 13- with the turn assist.
I'll add. At my local Toyota. The wholesale parts people, back ~2 years ago. Said they're seeing unusually high number brake master running though the parts department nationally. Mechanics in the shop, total me: "Their teams, are replacing about 1/2 dozen master a week each. Keep on mind; they don't see many 100 series and much fewer 200 series.
As far as converting to a 200 series master. Humm
I worked on converting a 2010, to a turn assist. We had to re-pin the wire housing block of vehicle wire harness, to work with newer master. There's a thread on how to, in the 200 series. It may be possible to rewire a 100 wire harness to work with 200 series, IDK. But, either a 100 or 200 series or any Toyota/Lexus masters will fail, sooner rather than later. If not properly maintained. In the 100 series, most important PM we can do. Is not allow brake fluid on control wire (don't spill or overfill). Second most important is regularly flush, using only Toyota brake fluid. Not even Toyota/Lexus shops use their own brake fluid. They use cheap bulk brake fluid. HUMMM
The 03-07 have large front caliper pistons than the 98-02. Their front brakes pads wear at nearly twice the rate as 98-02s. That 98-02 even with stock tires, brakes are weak. IIRC they also increase pistons size again in 2008-11. Possible again 13- with the turn assist.
I'll add. At my local Toyota. The wholesale parts people, back ~2 years ago. Said they're seeing unusually high number brake master running though the parts department nationally. Mechanics in the shop, total me: "Their teams, are replacing about 1/2 dozen master a week each. Keep on mind; they don't see many 100 series and much fewer 200 series.
As far as converting to a 200 series master. Humm
I worked on converting a 2010, to a turn assist. We had to re-pin the wire housing block of vehicle wire harness, to work with newer master. There's a thread on how to, in the 200 series. It may be possible to rewire a 100 wire harness to work with 200 series, IDK. But, either a 100 or 200 series or any Toyota/Lexus masters will fail, sooner rather than later. If not properly maintained. In the 100 series, most important PM we can do. Is not allow brake fluid on control wire (don't spill or overfill). Second most important is regularly flush, using only Toyota brake fluid. Not even Toyota/Lexus shops use their own brake fluid. They use cheap bulk brake fluid. HUMMM
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hoser
SILVER Star
But a lot of Toyotas and Lexus use the same type of booster. 4Runner, LS, GX, GS and probably more. They sold over 100k 4runners in 2005.
For the 100, in some markets, they received the traditional vacuum booster. But AFAIK, for the 200, since 2008, they all received electric boosters.
Perhaps, you (@hoser) will be the pioneer of this mod, to a newer model's brake master in the 100 series!
If, the day comes, we can't get our masters from Toyota any longer. I'd then look to modifying. One consideration would be the 200 series master. Although I'd probable look at 2008-12 as first choice (pre turn assist). Others, have already convert to vacuum in the 100 series.
I'm very confrontable with our braking system in stock 100 series.
Personally, I'm happy with the 100 series brake system, including the master. I do like the 03- larger front piston, yielding slightly better braking than 98-02. But it also reduce life of front pads.
Of course, at 25 years and 500K miles combine city HWY driving. Masters, in particular its Booster Motor (all brush motors wear out), are end-of-life. As such, need closer inspection at minimum including the brake lines and calipers.
The premature "total-brake-failure" of the 100 series brake master. Which is why this thread began. Is very preventable IMHO. In 98% of cases, it's predictable, when one knows what to look for.
One only needs follow Toyota PM and service recommendation. But, with one exception IMHO. That is where the manuals states: Toyota brake fluid or equivalent DOT III. I do not use equivalent, any longer. I use only Toyota brake fluid, out of abundance of caution. "Abundance of caution", steams out of a TSB on 2005-07 (did not include LC or LX) brake master recall TSB. Also, due to issues I've seen when non Toyota brake fluid used. I suspect, the high number of master installed today (non Land Cruiser LX). Is related to the use of NON Toyota brake fluid.
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If, the day comes, we can't get our masters from Toyota any longer. I'd then look to modifying. One consideration would be the 200 series master. Although I'd probable look at 2008-12 as first choice (pre turn assist). Others, have already convert to vacuum in the 100 series.
I'm very confrontable with our braking system in stock 100 series.
Personally, I'm happy with the 100 series brake system, including the master. I do like the 03- larger front piston, yielding slightly better braking than 98-02. But it also reduce life of front pads.
Of course, at 25 years and 500K miles combine city HWY driving. Masters, in particular its Booster Motor (all brush motors wear out), are end-of-life. As such, need closer inspection at minimum including the brake lines and calipers.
The premature "total-brake-failure" of the 100 series brake master. Which is why this thread began. Is very preventable IMHO. In 98% of cases, it's predictable, when one knows what to look for.
One only needs follow Toyota PM and service recommendation. But, with one exception IMHO. That is where the manuals states: Toyota brake fluid or equivalent DOT III. I do not use equivalent, any longer. I use only Toyota brake fluid, out of abundance of caution. "Abundance of caution", steams out of a TSB on 2005-07 (did not include LC or LX) brake master recall TSB. Also, due to issues I've seen when non Toyota brake fluid used. I suspect, the high number of master installed today (non Land Cruiser LX). Is related to the use of NON Toyota brake fluid.
Brakes ...... Overdue write-up.
First and foremost: Brakes should only be worked by those, with high level of mechanical abilities and experienced with brake systems. With the age of all 100 series today, in our aging fleet. Any issue, with brake master assembly. IMHO, best and safest course of action. Have the whole brake...
forum.ih8mud.com
I have not replaced a master cylinder on my 02, 04, 99 year 4runner / landcruiser yet. However I keep the fluid changed about every two years or f it darkens in the reservoir showing heat / contaminants to avoid a master cylinder issue. So far it has worked. My 04 Runner I bought from my friend, he bought new, about two years ago
It developed a noise when pumping the brake via the booster motor. I changed just the motor, for him. The brushes were worn out from age. So far, no more issues with this unit since I bought it from here a year ago.
My 2002 runner at 225000 k I sold to a friend last year that he still has, the original booster / master cylinder installed on it.
My 99 landcruiser at 289600 miles today has the original mater cylinder / booster on it. I am worried now I will eventually have trouble, and I ordered a complete new unit when I saw they are new at 1300 plus dollars. Not mess with trying to do any work to it, just swap it out as prevention.
I may have made a mistake, but I use hi temp dot 4 fluid 600 degree motorcycle brake fluid, that I use in my motorcycles. I put that In my Cruiser when I changed all the calipers, stainless steel brake hoses along with slotted / vented rotors last year.
My purpose, was towing with my cruiser and deal
With the heat from the brakes, so far they are great.
Time will tell ….
Tex
It developed a noise when pumping the brake via the booster motor. I changed just the motor, for him. The brushes were worn out from age. So far, no more issues with this unit since I bought it from here a year ago.
My 2002 runner at 225000 k I sold to a friend last year that he still has, the original booster / master cylinder installed on it.
My 99 landcruiser at 289600 miles today has the original mater cylinder / booster on it. I am worried now I will eventually have trouble, and I ordered a complete new unit when I saw they are new at 1300 plus dollars. Not mess with trying to do any work to it, just swap it out as prevention.
I may have made a mistake, but I use hi temp dot 4 fluid 600 degree motorcycle brake fluid, that I use in my motorcycles. I put that In my Cruiser when I changed all the calipers, stainless steel brake hoses along with slotted / vented rotors last year.
My purpose, was towing with my cruiser and deal
With the heat from the brakes, so far they are great.
Time will tell ….
Tex
Correction 389600 miles on my 99 landcruiser original booster / master cylinder.
hoser
SILVER Star
@2001LC Have you measured the caliper piston difference between the pre/post '03? I have not but thought somebody had and the difference wasn't very much. I do know they added Electronic Brake Force Distribution in 2000 and they could've changed the brake pad wear front/rear ratio.
I also have NOT experienced brake failure in my 100 that this thread is based on. I suspect it's not a loss of brakes but rather highly reduced braking. Here's the other part of that brake pressure scale. If you completely drain the booster, the front brake line pressure will goes from 1604 psi and drops down to 568 psi when pushing down on the pedal with 75% more force. And the rear brake line gets ZERO psi.
The difference on the 200 is even greater. You go from 2500 psi (w/ booster) down to 400 psi (no booster) on the front brakes... and that is with pushing down on the brake pedal with 75% more force. Rear also gets zero psi when booster fails.
I also have NOT experienced brake failure in my 100 that this thread is based on. I suspect it's not a loss of brakes but rather highly reduced braking. Here's the other part of that brake pressure scale. If you completely drain the booster, the front brake line pressure will goes from 1604 psi and drops down to 568 psi when pushing down on the pedal with 75% more force. And the rear brake line gets ZERO psi.
The difference on the 200 is even greater. You go from 2500 psi (w/ booster) down to 400 psi (no booster) on the front brakes... and that is with pushing down on the brake pedal with 75% more force. Rear also gets zero psi when booster fails.
When it fails, you have no brakes. It's not like when a vacuum assist system fails and you can stand on it and get some braking. Standing on the pedal when one of these fails will, at most, slow you down some if you're going under 2 MPH.
Quote:
I also have NOT experienced brake failure in my 100 that this thread is based on. I suspect it's not a loss of brakes but rather highly reduced braking. Here's the other part of that brake pressure scale. If you completely drain the booster, the front brake line pressure will goes from 1604 psi and drops down to 568 psi when pushing down on the pedal with 75% more force. And the rear brake line gets ZERO psi.
Yikes! That could lead to a bad situation for sure. Nice to know about loss of rear pressure and a lot of front pressure cut way down and with more pedal force. I wheeled in Colorado this past summer and places I was in, I would not want to deal with that problem at all! Not to mention the shock value then the human response. Thank for the information and just confirms my thoughts of buying a new unit for my old 99 Landcruiser.
I also have NOT experienced brake failure in my 100 that this thread is based on. I suspect it's not a loss of brakes but rather highly reduced braking. Here's the other part of that brake pressure scale. If you completely drain the booster, the front brake line pressure will goes from 1604 psi and drops down to 568 psi when pushing down on the pedal with 75% more force. And the rear brake line gets ZERO psi.
Yikes! That could lead to a bad situation for sure. Nice to know about loss of rear pressure and a lot of front pressure cut way down and with more pedal force. I wheeled in Colorado this past summer and places I was in, I would not want to deal with that problem at all! Not to mention the shock value then the human response. Thank for the information and just confirms my thoughts of buying a new unit for my old 99 Landcruiser.
I've not measured piston with micron. But I know, we must use the proper front shim kit. The clips spread is large on the newer, to accommodate the large OD of piston. Walls of them, look the same thickness. Also when order piston, we've two P/N depending on year. I do have some in the shop, I'll measure some day.
In my 2001, which I had for ~14 years. It would wear out rear brakes in 45K miles, front's lasted 90K miles. In newer models, I see front and rears wear about the same miles.
Rear brake are total depend on accumulator pressure, which pressure chart clearly shows. Which comes from the booster motor/pump pressure build up in accumulator. Fronts, have some braking without assist pressure. I find it really varies, from vehicle to vehicle. When booster motor fails (lose of brakes). Some we have near nothing at bottom of pedal, no matter how hard I push.. Others, I get some stopping power, depending on how hard I press at bottom of pedal.
BTW:
I just looked at pressure test in TIS, for 2001, 2003 & 2007 spec. The 2001 & 2003 match what you've posted of 1,604PSI frt, 1,044PSI rear max. But if you continue down the page, it than says test for: w/ ABS & TRAC & VSC ECU; 1,604PSI frt, rear 1,671PSI max. The 2007 only show the higher PSI w/ ABS & TRAC & VSC ECU.
So it seems, pressure booster assembly proportioning valve remain the same.
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I have an 03 LX. Shop called back today, turns out some kind of rat or squirrel ate through the wires to the MC/booster. Guess it’s one of the cheaper fixes. Now have to figure out how to keep rodents out.
I live in the woods.
Keeping rodents out:
1. Kill them. This is the best way for mice/rats: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1O458
I have found a bullet works best on tree rats.
2. Spray your engine and engine bay down with "serious" hot sauce, which I mix up with rubbing alcohol and: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F2K494K
Best to use a paint respirator when you are spraying, or make sure you are upwind. To find out exactly how effective you "covid" face diaper is, try using one while spraying this stuff and take a whiff. When you recover, get a paint respirator or go upwind next time.
3. Prop your hood up with a board or whatever. They don't like to go to areas that are not enclosed.
Keeping rodents out:
1. Kill them. This is the best way for mice/rats: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1O458
I have found a bullet works best on tree rats.
2. Spray your engine and engine bay down with "serious" hot sauce, which I mix up with rubbing alcohol and: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F2K494K
Best to use a paint respirator when you are spraying, or make sure you are upwind. To find out exactly how effective you "covid" face diaper is, try using one while spraying this stuff and take a whiff. When you recover, get a paint respirator or go upwind next time.
3. Prop your hood up with a board or whatever. They don't like to go to areas that are not enclosed.
Thanks for posting this, it serves as a great reference point so folks like me can get an idea of what a fair cost is.
I got the call from the shop (local Toyota dealership) today with an estimate to fix mine. Brake booster / master cylinder assembly replacement with brake fluid flush is just about $2,300. As much as I'd like to save some money by buying the part online and doing it myself, I just don't have the time available to wait for the part to come in and spend the better part of a day doing it.
You're welcome! $2,300 is really a good price. A year or two ago, it have been $4k to $6k.
I'd suggest you request, they use Toyota brake fluid. Tell them you collect Toyota brake fluid bottles, and you'd like all the empties. Also request, all new (4) bleeder caps. Combine will only ad ~$30.
Then learn how to properly check/set brake fluid level. By simply reading, what is embossed on the reservoir. Never overfill, make sure too wipe off and rinse with water any spillage. Flush with Toyota brake fluid every ~3 years.
Use a good group 27F car battery, keeping clean post and cables.
Properly cared for. Should last better than 25 yrs and 500K miles.
BTW: I see you're from upper NorthEast. Request they look over all hard and flexible brake line end to end.
