fj40charles
SILVER Star
Sweating pipe is very easy and a no brainer. If you want a strong joint, get some silver solder.
Having to sweat copper tubing is a non issue for me.
Plumbing a shop with air (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter D'Animal
- Start date
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Sweating pipe is very easy and a no brainer. If you want a strong joint, get some silver solder.
Having to sweat copper tubing is a non issue for me.
Agreed, copper is the ultimate. The only reason I dream of something else is expense. Problem is, no other product can give you the peace of mind that copper can. No corrosion, no weakening, won't explode, can take abuse. It's easy to sweat once you take a little time to learn how.
A word about galvanized pipe
It is not an industry standard to use galv. pipe for air.
The major detractor is the galvanized flakes off and moves down stream and creates havoc.
Sure rust particles can come loose from black iron. but they are very small compared to galv. flakes.
It typically requires some kind of physical action to get the rust to dislodge from the side of the black iron pipe.
Anyway. I worked in the industry for 10 years. copper and black iron are the standard.
It is not an industry standard to use galv. pipe for air.
The major detractor is the galvanized flakes off and moves down stream and creates havoc.
Sure rust particles can come loose from black iron. but they are very small compared to galv. flakes.
It typically requires some kind of physical action to get the rust to dislodge from the side of the black iron pipe.
Anyway. I worked in the industry for 10 years. copper and black iron are the standard.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
So a long term report with my copper pipe system. This thread is 4 years old!
My piping system is 5 years old. It still works great with no leaks and really no issues. I drain the compressor tank every 6 months or so and the drains in the copper pipe about every 3 months.
There is very little water in the whole system, and my working end rarely has more than a spit of water in it.
Copper is a bit more expensive than alternatives, but averaged out over 5+ years the cost is minimal.
Hose reels rock, and if I was doing it again, I'd use more, and higher quality hose reels, with at least 5o feet of hose on a reel.
My piping system is 5 years old. It still works great with no leaks and really no issues. I drain the compressor tank every 6 months or so and the drains in the copper pipe about every 3 months.
There is very little water in the whole system, and my working end rarely has more than a spit of water in it.
Copper is a bit more expensive than alternatives, but averaged out over 5+ years the cost is minimal.
Hose reels rock, and if I was doing it again, I'd use more, and higher quality hose reels, with at least 5o feet of hose on a reel.
What size copper line?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I sized the whole system at 3/4 inch. The longest run is about 30 feet, with 2 drip legs to remove water from the system.
Im just worried about costs, my runs are 55 feet one side and 35 the other, two reels.
Home depot has had copper 10 foot lines pretty cheap as of late.
Home depot has had copper 10 foot lines pretty cheap as of late.
- Thread starter
- #48
Pfft!
Some of us take awhile to make up our mind.
Make sure you get the thick wall copper, not the water pipe copper.
Some of us take awhile to make up our mind.
Make sure you get the thick wall copper, not the water pipe copper.
What makes you say that?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I think D'animal is right. There seem to be 2 types of copper pipe. The good stuff is the blue labled thick wall stuff. The red is thinner. For a single stage compressor, the thinner stuff may work, but if you think you might change to s dual stage compressor with higher working pressure, then the thicker wall tubing seems like a better bet, especially since it adds only trivially to the cost.
Actually, there are many different types of copper pipe, but I expect the two you guys are referring to is type 'L' and type 'M'. One is harder than the other, I don't think either is thicker. I suppose I could do some research and find out if the working pressure is different. I was hoping D'Animal had some experience to impart as to why one was better than the other.
Seems I was wrong.
Copper.org: Applications: Tube, Pipe & Fittings: Copper Tube Handbook: I. Types of Copper Tube
'Types K, L, M, DWV and Medical Gas tube are designated by ASTM standard sizes, with the actual outside diameter always 1/8-inch larger than the standard size designation. Each type represents a series of sizes with different wall thicknesses. Type K tube has thicker walls than Type L tube, and Type L walls are thicker than Type M, for any given diameter. All inside diameters depend on tube size and wall thickness.'
Also, for working pressure specs- http://www.alaskancopper.com/pdf/cu/water_tubing_1.pdf
Seems like type M would be sufficient at 350 psi for annealed, which is the rating that is used for sweated joints. From the second chart it seems that the choice of solder makes a big difference in pressure rating, but I'm not positive I'm reading either chart right. The notation 'Service Temperature up tp 150º F (5,100 psi, annealed; 9,000 psi drawn)' has me a bit confused. In any case, type 'L' is better, and type 'K' even betterrer- so where do you draw the line?
Copper.org: Applications: Tube, Pipe & Fittings: Copper Tube Handbook: I. Types of Copper Tube
'Types K, L, M, DWV and Medical Gas tube are designated by ASTM standard sizes, with the actual outside diameter always 1/8-inch larger than the standard size designation. Each type represents a series of sizes with different wall thicknesses. Type K tube has thicker walls than Type L tube, and Type L walls are thicker than Type M, for any given diameter. All inside diameters depend on tube size and wall thickness.'
Also, for working pressure specs- http://www.alaskancopper.com/pdf/cu/water_tubing_1.pdf
Seems like type M would be sufficient at 350 psi for annealed, which is the rating that is used for sweated joints. From the second chart it seems that the choice of solder makes a big difference in pressure rating, but I'm not positive I'm reading either chart right. The notation 'Service Temperature up tp 150º F (5,100 psi, annealed; 9,000 psi drawn)' has me a bit confused. In any case, type 'L' is better, and type 'K' even betterrer- so where do you draw the line?
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #53
I got my info on the copper pipe from my one neighbor who is a commercial plumber and the other that does commercial HVAC.
I have been holding off on buying any until the price comes down a bit.
I have been holding off on buying any until the price comes down a bit.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
LOL-I got mine at Home Depot. they had 2 types, and I bought the thicker type. I believe it had a higher pressure rating and a blue label. It was more expensive than the red label. I figure it can old 100 psi water for decades, it can hold 100 psi air for the years I'll need it.
fj40charles
SILVER Star
Be sure to get copper tubing for water. Copper used by HVAC will be different dimension.
I had a rental house a long time ago where the PO used HVAC copper for water lines. It would not fit regular copper fittings and was a bitoch to work with.
I had a rental house a long time ago where the PO used HVAC copper for water lines. It would not fit regular copper fittings and was a bitoch to work with.
- Thread starter
- #56
I found the stuff locally that I am going to use. It is the industrial version of the Shop Pak system sold through Ingersal Rand Dealers. It uses snap together couplers and beige aluminum tubing.
A local tool shop has the SimplAir line and components it in stock and does installations in industrial applications buildings.
Speedline
Ingersoll Rand | SpeedLine (SL)
Easyline
Ingersoll Rand | EasyLine (EL)
I am going to measure my needs and get a price between the two systems. The greatest thing is that I can add to it very easily.
A local tool shop has the SimplAir line and components it in stock and does installations in industrial applications buildings.
Speedline
Ingersoll Rand | SpeedLine (SL)
Easyline
Ingersoll Rand | EasyLine (EL)
I am going to measure my needs and get a price between the two systems. The greatest thing is that I can add to it very easily.
There is some really interesting flexible line systems out there for really good prices too, my issue was most were 3/8 or 1/2 which might be a tad small for a 60 foot run. I like the push tight fittings, my airbag system on the tow rig turned me on to that.
We always used type L
Never had a problem.
we made compressor discharge tube out of Type L refer tube.
they commonly see 175psi and 400 deg.
wouldnt recommend schedual M
Never had a problem.
we made compressor discharge tube out of Type L refer tube.
they commonly see 175psi and 400 deg.
wouldnt recommend schedual M
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Ive got alot... 150' copper mixed 3/4" main lines with 1/2" drops. main trick to it is leave the compressor and drop down any condisation that fors will drop to the lowest point when it cools put a T in the lowerst point and a drain pipe. I have a 60 gallon with compressor mounted tank, also 3 20 gallon tanks in the attic I get valmost no water in the upper tanks. I would run copper any day of the week vs pvc. I had a buddy needed 20 stiches when the airline in his shop got bumped and blew. Not worth the risk. jut my .02
I learned from a old plumber how to sweat copper. I ran all the copper in the house I built and never had a leak in any of the runs. Use a Scotch Bright and clean all the joints good. Flux all the joints and put them together. Heat them with a torch until the flame just turns Green, very important! When you hit the solder around the joint at that temperature, it just sucks the solder in and runs around the joint.
Watch your flame color, it works!
Watch your flame color, it works!
