Plumbing a shop with air

[D'Animal]

I'm looking for ideas on how to plumb air through my shop (40x60). I currenty have one big air compressor and about 200ft of hose. I would like to install air lines through out the shop. I've seen people use schedule 40 PVC pipe as well as copper tubing. Fastenal has a system that looks like white electrical conduit and goes together with special fitting.


I've seen PVC pipe burst. Copper is crazy expensive for the thick walled stuff that I would need and I can't sweat pipe to save my butt.

What do you use and how does it work?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Come to Outfitting my friend.....


https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=100389&highlight=air+compressor


I did this last summer. It's a very fun project. You want the thick walled copper, sorry! Spend once. Sweating pipe is not that hard once you get the hang of it.

Here is one working end.

 

[DaveyBoy]

I'm looking for ideas on how to plumb air through my shop (40x60). I currenty have one big air compressor and about 200ft of hose. I would like to install air lines through out the shop. I've seen people use schedule 40 PVC pipe as well as copper tubing. Fastenal has a system that looks like white electrical conduit and goes together with special fitting.


I've seen PVC pipe burst. Copper is crazy expensive for the thick walled stuff that I would need and I can't sweat pipe to save my butt.

What do you use and how does it work?

DO NOT USE PVC!!!
That said, I'm getting ready to do this as well
and I'll be using 3/4 Iron Pipe (cheap)

I can't attach a PDF from Fine Homebuilding on the topic,
but PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Another good source for info is garagejournal.com

 

[D'Animal]

What month was it in Fine Homebuilding? I have a stack of those, I must have missed the article.

 

[DaveyBoy]

What month was it in Fine Homebuilding? I have a stack of those, I must have missed the article.

I bought the article online as I'm not a subscriber,
but it's from 2002. If you're a current subscriber,
you can access their archives.

 

[Mace]

why not use PVC?

Burst strength of sch 80 is way above what your compressor will put out. It is cehap, easy to deal with, and if protected, works great..

 

[DaveyBoy]

why not use PVC?

Burst strength of sch 80 is way above what your compressor will put out. It is cehap, easy to deal with, and if protected, works great..

I've read lots of horror stories and warnings from reputable sites
about it getting brittle over time and bursting. Alternatives are cheap
insurance from shrapnel IMHO.

 

[rusty_tlc]

...
I've seen PVC pipe burst. Copper is crazy expensive for the thick walled stuff that I would need and I can't sweat pipe to save my butt.

What do you use and how does it work?

I don't think I would use anything besides copper.

The keys to sweat fitting copper are;
- clean the outside of the pipe and the inside of the fitting, every
time, even if it looks bright. Use steel wool or plumbers cloth backed sand paper tape. I prefer steel wool, it leaves less grit behind.

- use a lot of flux, and give the pipe or fitting a twist to make sure it is evenly distributed.

- heat the opposite side of the fitting from where you want to start applying solder, heat until the solder flows as soon as you touch it to the metal.

- run the solder wire all the way around the fitting even if it looks like it flowed around.

If you are really trying to cut corners run PVC over head and use copper just for the service drops.

 

[Coolerman]

why not use PVC?

Burst strength of sch 80 is way above what your compressor will put out. It is cheap, easy to deal with, and if protected, works great..

The key words are 'if protected'. While there is no doubt that PVC will handle the stated pressure, remember that PVC is rated for LIQUIDS not air. OSHA specifically states that PVC shall not be used for air unless it is underground or enclosed inside a steel barrier.

The real danger with PVC is if you whack it accidently while it's at full pressure with say an axle and it explodes sending shrapnel everywhere.

Use black iron water/gas pipe. Cheap and easy to assemble. I just came back from Lowes where I bought enough black pipe and fittings to do the first round of my install. About $100 to run 20 feet with all the fittings/adapters/reducers/valves to do two complete drops.

 

[Mace]

I have seen a bunch of tools ruined by rust from black pipe..

 

[Coolerman]

I have seen a bunch of tools ruined by rust from black pipe..

That's why you install filters, water traps and oilers or coalescing filters depending on your needs on each drop right before it changes to rubber hose. Another huge advantage of steel or copper pipe is they conduct heat better so that water will condense out of the air stream inside the pipe where it can be captured by the traps. Yes that water will rust the inside of the pipe!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The key words are 'if protected'. While there is no doubt that PVC will handle the stated pressure, remember that PVC is rated for LIQUIDS not air. OSHA specifically states that PVC shall not be used for air unless it is underground or enclosed inside a steel barrier.

The real danger with PVC is if you whack it accidently while it's at full pressure with say an axle and it explodes sending shrapnel everywhere.

Use black iron water/gas pipe. Cheap and easy to assemble. I just came back from Lowes where I bought enough black pipe and fittings to do the first round of my install. About $100 to run 20 feet with all the fittings/adapters/reducers/valves to do two complete drops.

Curious why you wouldn't use copper. It is way easier to cut and assemble than black iron pipe, plus the connections don't leak, and it doesn't corrode. It isn't that much more than what you quote-I remember the 20 ft blue label copper 3/4 pipe was $36. The fittings add up, but agian not that much more $. I never even thought about the rust isue, but you will never get all the water out ahead of the iron pipe runs. My system has two vertical legs with drip legs/water drains, and a long 30-40 foot run that slopes gently down to the vertical.

What has been interesting to me, is that roughly 90% of the water comes out the tank drain, 9% comes out the first drip leg and 1% comes out the second drip leg. I have yet to drain my water trap just before the tool outlet-that air is pretty dry. It's nice to know the theory actually works.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Curious why you wouldn't use copper. It is way easier to cut and assemble than black iron pipe, plus the connections don't leak, and it doesn't corrode. It isn't that much more than what you quote-I remember the 20 ft blue label copper 3/4 pipe was $36. The fittings add up, but agian not that much more $. I never even thought about the rust isue, but you will never get all the water out ahead of the iron pipe runs. My system has two vertical legs with drip legs/water drains, and a long 30-40 foot run that slopes gently down to the vertical.

What has been interesting to me, is that roughly 90% of the water comes out the tank drain, 9% comes out the first drip leg and 1% comes out the second drip leg. I have yet to drain my water trap just before the tool outlet-that air is pretty dry. It's nice to know the theory actually works.

Even though I have a set of pipe dies I'd rather use copper. Much easier to cut and assemble. I would say rust would be a big issue with using iron pipe for air lines, worse than with water because there is plenty of oxygen to help the process.

When I designed the air system for our production floor I made a low point/drain at the far end of the loop, this acts as a fail safe water trap. I blow the water out about once a month. This is in Nevada, very low humidity, plus I have a drier between the tank and house air. I can only imagine what kind of water you get out of a system in the Valley.

 

[fj40charles]

You could plumb the shop with some air brake tubing since it would be easy.
Personally, I will use copper because I have some 20' sections and I can easily silver solder the joints.

Copper is very expensive these days.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

When I designed the air system for our production floor I made a low point/drain at the far end of the loop, this acts as a fail safe water trap. I blow the water out about once a month. This is in Nevada, very low humidity, plus I have a drier between the tank and house air. I can only imagine what kind of water you get out of a system in the Valley.

Actually, Dan, the valley is very low humidity as well, except for mid winter. Not nearly as much of a problem as I thought. I get a bit out of the pipes, but no more than a spit of water at the second trap.

 

[Coolerman]

One reason I went with black iron pipe is I had a whole box fill of fittings and I have a pipe threading setup so I can make anything I need. Second reason was I wanted to be able to take it apart easily. I will be moving in about 2 years when we get our new house built and will need to remove all this stuff from the garage/basement so I can resell it. Plus I can use it in the new shop.

The rust will be an issue but it's easily filtered out.

Now a question: How much oil is in the air from these compressors that have oil? I have only dealt with the oiless compressors.

As far as I can tell the filter/water trap that Harbor Freight and others carry is not designed to filter out compressor oil in the air stream. I am setting up a separate air line that will only be used to paint. It will be filtered and water trapped but what are folks using to get the oil out?

 

[sleeoffroad]

When I did the shop, I ran a main line with black pipe and then T'ed off it with this from mcmaster.com (5097T413). Use brasss compression fittings. Easy to use and you can always add t's later by just cutting and installing a T. Also easy since it bends pretty easy.

Part Number: 5097T413
1-249 Ft. $0.34 per Ft.
250 or more $0.28 per Ft.
Type
D.O.T. Nylon 12 Tubing
Material
Nylon 12
Shape
Single Line
Outside Dia.
1/4" (.25")
Inside Dia.
.17"
Wall Thickness
.04"
Reinforcement
Unreinforced
Color
Opaque Green
Maximum Pressure
150 psi @ 75º F
Operating Temperature Range
-40º to +200º F
Bend Radius
1"
Durometer
63D (Rigid)
Tensile Strength
Not Rated
Elongation
Not Rated
Sterilize With
Not Rated
Specifications Met
United States Department of Transportation (DOT)
SAE Specification
SAE J844 A
D.O.T Specification
D.O.T. FMVSS 106
Compatible Fittings
D.O.T. Compression and D.O.T. Instant
Standard Lengths, ft.
25, 50, 100, 250

 

[fj40charles]

When I did the shop, I ran a main line with black pipe and then T'ed off it with this from mcmaster.com (5097T413). Use brasss compression fittings. Easy to use and you can always add t's later by just cutting and installing a T. Also easy since it bends pretty easy.

Christo,

This sounds like 1/4" od air brake tubing. This is what I'm using for my ARB phenumatic switch (from regulator to manual valve).

http://storkview.storksmt.com/specsite/newspecdetail.asp?topic=SAE J844&sid=1747

SAE J844
Standard : SAE J844
Title : Nonmetallic Air Brake System Tubing
Description :
This SAE Standard covers the minimum requirements for nonmetallic tubing as manufactured for use in air brake systems.

 

[Ian Rogers]

I don't think I would use anything besides copper.

The keys to sweat fitting copper are;
- clean the outside of the pipe and the inside of the fitting, every
time, even if it looks bright. Use steel wool or plumbers cloth backed sand paper tape. I prefer steel wool, it leaves less grit behind.

- use a lot of flux, and give the pipe or fitting a twist to make sure it is evenly distributed.

- heat the opposite side of the fitting from where you want to start applying solder, heat until the solder flows as soon as you touch it to the metal.

- run the solder wire all the way around the fitting even if it looks like it flowed around.

If you are really trying to cut corners run PVC over head and use copper just for the service drops.

you forgot the last step, have a wet rag with you and cool the joint in the direction that you want the solder to flow. this pulls the solder in to the joint.

 

[fj40charles]

you forgot the last step, have a wet rag with you and cool the joint in the direction that you want the solder to flow. this pulls the solder in to the joint.

I'll have to try this trick...