Please help me diagnose FJ60 starting issues - video included

[jasoncohen]

Hi this if my first post to the forum and I am a lucky new (to me) owner of a 1982 FJ60.

I am new to all of this, but am having some issues right after I start her up and made a video to show the issues I am having. I read a bunch of threads but because of not having video reference (and being new to this) it is hard to tell if they are the same or different issues. I would love any feedback and recommendations and thanks to everyone in advance.

Btw there is a hole in the exhaust which needs to be fixed (hence the noise) and the carb was just rebuilt under 100 miles ago and she is running much better than before (after 5-7 minutes of warm up... which you will see on the video).

 

[SteveH]

Couple of things. The 'halfway out' choke position is just 'fast idle'. The 'fully out' position is full choke. I would never try to start an FJ60 without full choke - my '87 would never have started cold. I think you need to check your choke and choke breaker function, per the FSM. Is the choke flapper on top of the carburetor fully shutting when you fully pull out the choke?

The (vacuum-operated) choke breaker pulls off the choke right after it starts to prevent the engine from stalling. Do you have the FSM for the carb and emission bits? You need to get this manual and read it and set up all the carb conditions. Don't assume that a 'new carburetor' was set up correctly, or that the choke is working correctly, until you verify it.

Also, check your vacuum at hot idle and see if you have 17-19" (sea level) and look for loose/missing hoses or leaks between the manifold and block, for which Land Cruisers are fairly infamous. Your truck should start and run better than this, but you need to go through the carb and emission bits step by step. Yes, it's time-consuming, but you will learn a tremendous amount about your truck. If you want this done right, you'll likely need to do it yourself. 99% of auto repair shops won't have the knowledge or patience to do this right, even if you paid them a boatload of money.

 

[NMC_EXP]

When my FJ40 was brand new, to start quickly with a cold engine it needed two pumps on the throttle. In hot weather half choke was required, cold weather full choke was required. As the engine warmed up the choke could in stages, slowly be pushed in. The FJ60 I have now acts about the same.

Obviously, starting depends on how well tuned the engine is.

If the carb cooling fan is not working, it will be harder to start in warm/hot weather.

 

[Output Shaft]

When the engine revs up like that and falls, then revs, then falls, all on its own, that is usually an issue with the vacuum switch which controls the deceleration fuel cut circuit.
Check the switch. See "deceleration fuel cut" in the emissions FSM attached. See if it's connected or functions or even exists.

With a bad vacuum switch, (or one that's not hooked up) the emissions computer thinks that the engine is decelerating when the rpms get above about 1600 or so and cuts off fuel to the carb... then let's the fuel flow again when the rpms drop down far enough.

But you're not decelerating.

So the engine revs will bounce like that, all on their own, high to low until the choke knob is pressed in far enough to get the rpms below 1600 or so.

As mentioned, check the vacuum of the engine when warmed up too.

Always start the engine with the choke knob pulled out all the way when the engine is cold. (as mentioned).

If it fires up then sputters (until you fix the problem) feel free the give the gas pedal a few jiggles to keep the engine from dying.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Curious what happens if you just start it with two pumps, choke out fully then turn the key and let it sit like that for a few mins then choke half closed per like what Steve said above. With these old trucks, being hesitant won't help her. They aren't dainty trucks and do require a heavy hand essentially, you can be rough on her. Pull the choke and let her roar to life and let her stay that way for a few minutes. Around 5:10 or so it sounds great. I think as I see it you might just be being too soft on her. Just saying.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Welcome to antique carbureted vehicle ownership.

The startup procedure from cold is:
Pull choke knob, pump gas pedal ~3,4,6 times, start truck. Gradually push choke knob to lowest steady RPM. After 1-2 minutes drive away. In the coldest weather choke should be completely off after 5minutes, quicker in warmer climes.

The surge after startup is a choke calibration issue. Choke blade is too far open for RPM (which is also too high).

 

[CaptClose]

Curious what happens if you just start it with two pumps, choke out fully then turn the key and let it sit like that for a few mins then choke half closed per like what Steve said above. With these old trucks, being hesitant won't help her. They aren't dainty trucks and do require a heavy hand essentially, you can be rough on her. Pull the choke and let her roar to life and let her stay that way for a few minutes. Around 5:10 or so it sounds great. I think as I see it you might just be being too soft on her. Just saying.

I was thinking the same thing. Pull the choke all the way out, pump the gas several times, keep your foot mashed down on the gas pedal, and then turn the key. Let it idle up to around 2000rpm, and do like Jim (Jesus) said, slowly push the choke in until it settles between 650-800rpm and drive. After five or so minutes, your engine should be warm and you can push that choke all the way in. That's about textbook for an FJ60.

I actually think yours starts pretty well. Although, I'd like to see another video using the method I just described above.

Like others have said, you could (and probably do) have some vacuum leaks around the manifold. Give us some video of your engine bay... there's more than a few people here that can identify problems just by glancing under the hood.

It might be time to get some dirt and oil on your hands, if you want her running in top form. Good luck buddy. It looks like you have a great 60 there!

 

[FishTown]

Who rebuilt the carburetor? If it was just some average Joe that didn't follow the FSM, that may be part of the issue. Also, I see you're in Louisiana. It usually doesn't get cold enough to need to run the choke more than 5 minutes. I usually run mine 1-3 minutes. Even less in the summer. And 4-5 minutes when it's REALLY cold (20-30°).

I don't know anything about the deceleration fuel cut system, but sounds like that may be a good lead. Download/print the FSM and get your hands dirty!

 

[gregnash]

Welcome to antique carbureted vehicle ownership.

The startup procedure from cold is:
Pull choke knob, pump gas pedal ~3,4,6 times, start truck. Gradually push choke knob to lowest steady RPM. After 1-2 minutes drive away. In the coldest weather choke should be completely off after 5minutes, quicker in warmer climes.

The surge after startup is a choke calibration issue. Choke blade is too far open for RPM (which is also too high).

Pretty much my procedure..
Mornings like normal recently (below 40* outside)
- Jump in truck and pump pedal 4-5 times
- Pull choke fully out
- start truck
- wait a minute and then push choke in one or two clicks to find smoothest idle
- Go back inside and warm up
- Come back out after about 5 minutes and shut choke off completely and let truck idle to warm-up

Normally during the regular, warmer months (above 40* outside) I can get away with pumping the pedal 3-4 times and then she just fires up. If she has been sitting for more than 24hrs then it may require more pumps or choke. There is no correlation between temp and needing choke or more pumps once above 40-50*.

Time to grab the FSMs and start going through and doing some tuning. Do you have emissions controls (smogging requirements) where you live? If not you may be better off desmogging the truck.

 

[jasoncohen]

Hey thanks so much everyone for the responses and sorry for my delay (out of town for work and wanted to get back with some updates). I really appreciate the help and this is all a bit of learning process for me

I checked out the vacuum switch and fuel switch and both were good to go. I am going to try checking to make sure the vacuum is between 17-19 hopefully this week.

Also I have been a little more straightforward with the process of starting/choking it initially and it seems to be starting a bit quicker. It still does that surging (or maybe the technical term is looping) no matter how it starts up though. I can somewhat "save" it from dying if I give it some gas but without continuing to hit the gas pedal it will die (or very short of it so that it seems like it is about to).

I know that a few people mentioned it possibly being a choke calibration issue. Any recommendations on troubleshooting that? Also is that something that I need to completely disassemble the carb? Would love any tips on checking on that...

Also I will get a video of what it looks like when I start it up from the engine bay and see if anyone sees anything that seems strange under the hood.

Thanks so much everyone!

 

[jasoncohen]

Here are a few images of the engine and I would love to know if everything looks alright (or if anything seems out of place).

Thanks!

Engine 5

• jasoncohen
• Jan 23, 2017

Engine 4

• jasoncohen
• Jan 23, 2017

Engine 3

• jasoncohen
• Jan 23, 2017

Engine 2

• jasoncohen
• Jan 23, 2017

Engine 1

• jasoncohen
• Jan 23, 2017

 

[Output Shaft]

The venting plumbing for the distributor isn't right, which looks like the hot air intake plumbing vacuum plumbing is wrong too. Hot air intake isn't a big deal in LA though.

 

[4Cruisers]

At first glance, it pretty much looks like my '84 FJ60 engine compartment, except yours is cleaner . To me, nothing looks out of place, but my vehicle is at my place in Nevada right now, so I'm going by memory.

 

[jasoncohen]

The venting plumbing for the distributor isn't right, which looks like the hot air intake plumbing vacuum plumbing is wrong too. Hot air intake isn't a big deal in LA though.

View attachment 1387357

Thanks so much. Can you give me any direction on what I should change about it? Also do you think it is something that could be contributing to my issues? Thanks again

 

[Output Shaft]

Just to rule out if you've got a biggish vacuum leak at that white VCV clipped under the air cleaner, disconnect the hose with the red arrow and plug it. That hose is supposed to connect to a little valve mounted through the air cleaner housing (HIC valve).... Then a smaller hose is supposed to lead to the hot air intake valve on the air cleaner neck.

Doubtful if that's the source of hard starting, but it's something to fix.

See the FSM attached.

 

[CaptClose]

Listen to OS... he's an expert on this subject. What's going on under the duct tape on the vacuum lines going to your air cleaner? Not part of your problem, but it's a strange place to see duct tape haha... are your vacuum lines old and brittle? You may want to start replacing them. You might even find a few leaks here and there in the process. Be careful though, I notice that your BVSV's are still in one piece. You don't see that very often. Take an exacto knife and cut the hose off each port. Just be very careful.

did you hook up a vacuum gauge yet? I'm curious to see what your pulling. You're not far off though.... find the leak, seal it and you'll be good to go!

 

[FJ40Jim]

What OS said. The dissy cap vent and the HIC are mixed up, resulting in a good sized vacuum leak.
Also, what CC said, the hoses at top front of carb and top of air cleaner may be mixed up, also causing vacuum leaks.

 

[jasoncohen]

Hey thanks everyone and I am going to hopefully try this out in the next day or so when I get her back from my mechanic (apparently a tailpipe is an important thing to have...) and will report back.

Thanks again!

 

[jasoncohen]

Hey so thanks again everyone for the help. I re-routed those VAC lines as well as disconnected one that was connected to the EGR valve (my mechanic seems to think the EGR is stuck) and it seems to have fixed my issues. I did a video with an update so that you can see the difference and thanks again everyone for all of the help!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Great idle. Much better than before!