Payload (2 Viewers)

[on the rocks]

While the GX rating is 8,000lb towing it will still run out of payload pretty quickly (800lb of tongue weight is counted against the 1,545lb payload) so at that tow it only has 745lb of payload left. I also don’t think it would perform like an F150 at that weight due to the short wheelbase and (likely) softly sprung rear end.

I’m still happy to see 1,545lb as payload. I could work with that and a midsize (5K lb +/-) trailer. For me, I wouldn’t want to push a GX above 6,000lb trailer.

YMMV.

I agree on the thought with 6000lb max trailer and the size and weight of the GX but you never know until you weigh it up. The math is close and even a 900lb tongue weight + 300lbs(me and wife), and 100lbs hitch and a few minimal things, this = potential
Even for the limited + with a wheel swap to 18" or 20" on a 1-2 hour drive with altitude or not.

 

[04UZJ100]

Didn’t realize anyone in America actually looks at payload ratings.

 

[Jeremy556]

Didn’t realize anyone in America actually looks at payload ratings.

Look at, ignore, and bolt 3000lbs of useless crap to our 'overlanders'

 

[Jetboy]

Didn’t realize anyone in America actually looks at payload ratings.

I certainly agree that people wildly overload their "overlanders" to the point of significantly harming the reliability and the functionality of them. The vehicles with 2k lbs of junk strapped to them end up being worse off-road and on than a stock one to haul around a ton of crap that will never be used. I keep a close eye on weight and keep it as low as possible.

But the payload value is something I put little faith in. No one seems to know what the number actually means. Until someone can explain what factors are used to derive the number, even at a high level, it's not very meaningful. It is inconsistent across the same make and model from Toyota in different model years that are mechanically identical. And it doesn't seem to match well or at all with the physical properties of the vehicles.

I usually trust the OEM on stuff. But I simply don't believe that a TRD OR model 4Runner is only capable of half the payload of a SR5 model (but only in some model years while others is the same). I don't believe that a 4Runner has a higher functional payload capacity than a Tundra either. I'll die on this hill. Having both - Tundra handles 2500lb better than the 4Runner handles 1500. But the 4Runner would be well under max payload and the Tundra would be nearly double the spec max.

 

[TWILLY]

Didn’t realize anyone in America actually looks at payload ratings.

I am the only one.

I certainly agree that people wildly overload their "overlanders" to the point of significantly harming the reliability and the functionality of them. The vehicles with 2k lbs of junk strapped to them end up being worse off-road and on than a stock one to haul around a ton of crap that will never be used. I keep a close eye on weight and keep it as low as possible.

But the payload value is something I put little faith in. No one seems to know what the number actually means. Until someone can explain what factors are used to derive the number, even at a high level, it's not very meaningful. It is inconsistent across the same make and model from Toyota in different model years that are mechanically identical. And it doesn't seem to match well or at all with the physical properties of the vehicles.

I usually trust the OEM on stuff. But I simply don't believe that a TRD OR model 4Runner is only capable of half the payload of a SR5 model (but only in some model years while others is the same). I don't believe that a 4Runner has a higher functional payload capacity than a Tundra either. I'll die on this hill. Having both - Tundra handles 2500lb better than the 4Runner handles 1500. But the 4Runner would be well under max payload and the Tundra would be nearly double the spec max.

I don’t think it’s without some rational basis, but that basis remains totally unclear.

Adding to the intrigue, I recall from my quick look at payload ratings across GX550 specs that payload changed with wheel size — where larger wheel diameter and less sidewall corresponds with less payload. I’ll need to take a second look to verify, but it seemed… Odd.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I am the only one.

I don’t think it’s without some rational basis, but that basis remains totally unclear.

Adding to the intrigue, I recall from my quick look at payload ratings across GX550 specs that payload changed with wheel size — where larger wheel diameter and less sidewall corresponds with less payload. I’ll need to take a second look to verify, but it seemed… Odd.

Payload will change with the choices made in selecting your tire/wheel diameter and your chosen Tire Load Index and Tire Load Range. The lower the load range, such as B or Standard, the better the ride comfort. The higher the load range, such as D or E, the ride is harsher but with greater tire load capacity.

This impacts the vehicle manufactures Payload capacity at design, but your choices afterwards do not change the vehicle manufactures Payload capacity, but will affect your 3,000 pounds of extraneous rock crawler and/or overlanders equipment.

Example:
Wildpeak A/T3W All Terrain
Size: 265/70R18 (LC250 size)
Available in Standard Load or E - 10 ply

Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 265/70R18

tiresize.com

Other Info:
Understanding Tires Load Index VS Load Range
Load Range vs. Load Index
Tire Load Range Standard C D E

 

[M1911]

Look at, ignore, and bolt 3000lbs of useless crap to our 'overlanders'

That overlanding equipment is essential when parking on the grass at little Hillary's soccer game.

 

[Jetboy]

That overlanding equipment is essential when parking on the grass at little Hillary's soccer game.

Sure - it may look funny at soccer on saturday. But it's all worth it for the experience of getting away from all the hustle and bustle of city life and experiencing nature alone.*

* you can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, twitter, X, Myspace, AOL Online, and support my journey on patreon or subscribe to my racy stuff on OF! I do it all for myself (but also mostly for engagement.)

 

[Jetboy]

Payload will change with the choices made in selecting your tire/wheel diameter and your chosen Tire Load Index and Tire Load Range. The lower the load range, such as B or Standard, the better the ride comfort. The higher the load range, such as D or E, the ride is harsher but with greater tire load capacity.

This impacts the vehicle manufactures Payload capacity at design, but your choices afterwards do not change the vehicle manufactures Payload capacity, but will affect your 3,000 pounds of extraneous rock crawler and/or overlanders equipment.

Example:
Wildpeak A/T3W All Terrain
Size: 265/70R18 (LC250 size)
Available in Standard Load or E - 10 ply

Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 265/70R18

tiresize.com

Other Info:
Understanding Tires Load Index VS Load Range
Load Range vs. Load Index
Tire Load Range Standard C D E

Even so - none of the available tires are even remotely close to a limiting factor on payload. The lowest load rating of any available tire I could find on the market in the 265/50/22 size is still a 112 load index = 2469lb per tire. - 4938lbs/axle. Even if the GX started with 3k lbs on the rear axle, you've still got 2900lbs of headroom for tire capacity. Is it the wheels?

 

[Jeremy556]

Even so - none of the available tires are even remotely close to a limiting factor on payload. The lowest load rating of any available tire I could find on the market in the 265/50/22 size is still a 112 load index = 2469lb per tire. - 4938lbs/axle. Even if the GX started with 3k lbs on the rear axle, you've still got 2900lbs of headroom for tire capacity. Is it the wheels?

Probably they spec the tire inflation to 32-35psi versus the 50psi max on those tires, so considerably reduced load capacity. Also, don't forget to de-rate the tire by 11% if its P metric, when used in truck/suv application.

In the case of the Tundra, I think it's probably the spring rates they choose for an acceptable unloaded ride quality.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Even so - none of the available tires are even remotely close to a limiting factor on payload. The lowest load rating of any available tire I could find on the market in the 265/50/22 size is still a 112 load index = 2469lb per tire. - 4938lbs/axle. Even if the GX started with 3k lbs on the rear axle, you've still got 2900lbs of headroom for tire capacity. Is it the wheels?

Payload capacity depends on the design decisions during development, it consists of a number of things, frame size and metal gauge, the number of crossmembers, buckle points, suspension struts and springs capacity, axle capacity, body, etc.

Here are a few google hits for more information:

Is a vehicle's payload related to structural construction? (Unibody vs Body-on frame) - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

Is a vehicle's payload related to structural construction? (Unibody vs Body-on frame) Engineering/Technical Car Forums

www.automotiveforums.com

Payload capacity explained

Manufacturers like mentioning the payload capacity of their pickups and SUVs. But what exactly is it?

automart.ph

 

[Jetboy]

Probably they spec the tire inflation to 32-35psi versus the 50psi max on those tires, so considerably reduced load capacity. Also, don't forget to de-rate the tire by 11% if its P metric, when used in truck/suv application.

In the case of the Tundra, I think it's probably the spring rates they choose for an acceptable unloaded ride quality.

The tire pressure is a great point! But it doesn't look great for the GX550 on that basis. According to Toyo's guide the weight per psi is roughly linear (I don't think that holds at lower pressure, but should for the pressures we're looking at). The 22" tires that Lexus uses are a Yokohama with a typical load ratings around 107. But let's assume it's the higher 112 rating that some other brands have in that size and max 50psi. That calculates using Toyo's linear assumption to 49.38lb/psi. The door sticker is 33psi, it's 1629lbs/tire, 3259/axle, 6518 max GVWR. That's below the 6920lbs GVWR. And that's with no application of a de-rate factor. If that is added it ends up maxed at 5801lbs capacity that is barely over the curb weight. And the front axle curb weight empty of 3k lbs would already exceed the tire load capacity at 33psi. Toyota must be using a higher rated tire than the 112 load ratings.

A 6k lb SUV should probably have better tires. It weighs as much as an F250.\

Edit - Looking at a load chart for those tires, it says the 33psi load capacity is 2094 per tire. Not matching the linear assumption. Anyway, using that value, it would have an axle max of 4188, max gvwr of 8376, and if we add a de-rate factor of 11% it's 7455lbs. That's well above the 6920 GVWR. So, that spec doesn't appear to match up very well to set a cap on GVWR unless there's another additional safety factor applied or something. If we assume 100% of payload is on the rear axle - maybe we'll get there. Rear axle curb weight is 2725 and the max axle weight is 4188 based on tire load cap. Difference is 1463lbs of payload capacity. Toyota says payload capacity on the Luxury trim is 1210lbs. Not quite a match, but at least getting closer.

At the end of the day - it does look like the tires are likely the limiting factor on this rating. Or at least they're in the ballpark. Unfortunately that doesn't provide much useful information on what the vehicle can actually safely carry with better tires.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Edit - Looking at a load chart for those tires, it says the 33psi load capacity is 2094 per tire. Not matching the linear assumption. Anyway, using that value, it would have an axle max of 4188, max gvwr of 8376, and if we add a de-rate factor of 11% it's 7455lbs.

Payload calculations confirmed...

 

[Adam R]

A 6k lb SUV should probably have better tires. It weighs as much as an F250.\

For reference, my basically stock 100 Series weighs 5500 lbs. My diesel powered and mildly armored 80 series weighs 6000 lbs. My basically stock SRW F-350 long bed 4x4 (basically an F-250 with an extra spring leaf) weighs 9,000 lbs with a canopy. The GX or LC will be in the 5500 lb or less category.

Also, payload calculation is highly dependent on the frame/springs/suspension etc. Tires play a role too, but it comes down to a combination of things. Just putting beefier tires on it does not necessarily increase your payload capacity. Start throwing a bunch of extra crap on your vehicle and then you down the rabbit hole of needing beefier springs, beefier shocks, maybe beefier brakes, etc. You start chasing problems you created through your modifications. Been there done that....and will do it again.

 

[Jetboy]

For reference, my basically stock 100 Series weighs 5500 lbs. My diesel powered and mildly armored 80 series weighs 6000 lbs. My basically stock SRW F-350 long bed 4x4 (basically an F-250 with an extra spring leaf) weighs 9,000 lbs with a canopy. The GX or LC will be in the 5500 lb or less category.

Also, payload calculation is highly dependent on the frame/springs/suspension etc. Tires play a role too, but it comes down to a combination of things. Just putting beefier tires on it does not necessarily increase your payload capacity. Start throwing a bunch of extra crap on your vehicle and then you down the rabbit hole of needing beefier springs, beefier shocks, maybe beefier brakes, etc. You start chasing problems you created through your modifications. Been there done that....and will do it again.

Not sure what model you have, but the f250 curb weights range from 5677 to 7,538lbs. The GX is 5545 - 5710lbs depending on trim. It's on the bottom end. But it's in the neighborhood. I had a powerstoke f250 CCLB4x4 before my current tundra. It was about 7500lbs. For comparison an f150 supercrew 4x4 TTV6 is 5517. The heaviest f150 that's not a raptor is lighter than the lightest GX550.

The GX is VERY heavy for a midsize SUV.

 

[tacoshawn]

Not sure what model you have, but the f250 curb weights range from 5677 to 7,538lbs. The GX is 5545 - 5710lbs depending on trim. It's on the bottom end. But it's in the neighborhood. I had a powerstoke f250 CCLB4x4 before my current tundra. It was about 7500lbs. For comparison an f150 supercrew 4x4 TTV6 is 5517. The heaviest f150 that's not a raptor is lighter than the lightest GX550.

The GX is VERY heavy for a midsize SUV.

GX550 is very heavy compared to historic SUVs. My K2500 Suburban (8.1L) had a curb weight ~5,900lb. 3 Rows, 4x4, massive cast iron V8, LT trim.

Vehicles keep getting heavier, part of that is more features and creature comforts, part of it is designing to higher crash and safety standards. I’m a little surprised that the modern design tools have not been able to offset more of the weight.

The Ford F-Series move to aluminum body to reduce weight/make allowance for adding weight elsewhere in the vehicle look pretty savvy.

Not necessarily complaining, but more curb weight means everything has to be built even heavier to achieve 1,500lb of payload.

 

[Jetboy]

GX550 is very heavy compared to historic SUVs. My K2500 Suburban (8.1L) had a curb weight ~5,900lb. 3 Rows, 4x4, massive cast iron V8, LT trim.

Vehicles keep getting heavier, part of that is more features and creature comforts, part of it is designing to higher crash and safety standards. I’m a little surprised that the modern design tools have not been able to offset more of the weight.

The Ford F-Series move to aluminum body to reduce weight/make allowance for adding weight elsewhere in the vehicle look pretty savvy.

Not necessarily complaining, but more curb weight means everything has to be built even heavier to achieve 1,500lb of payload.

I'm really looking forward to seeing specs on the LC250 to see how it compares. The luxury trims can add a lot of bloat. In one sense - a vehicle sold on 22's with low profile tires isn't intended to venture very far if at all from the asphalt. So, it probably doesn't matter for the GX for most buyers. But the weight is a big enemy of performance. Hopefully if nothing else the extra weight means durability. Tacoma shares a lot of parts with the GX and caps out at 4720lbs. I suspect it'll be more durable in the same conditions with the same running gear and 1k lbs less weight. For a real expedition type vehicle, I think the Tacoma is a better base platform for that reason. Has a lot more headroom in terms of payload in real world conditions.

GM and Ram have also done a ton of work to reduce weight even with the steel bodies. A Silverado crew cab 4x4 5.3L v8 high country trim is 5,080lbs. A Ram 1500 rebel crew cab 5.7L v8 4x4 is 5,321. The only 1/2 ton trucks that are heavier than the GX is the Tundra and maybe the Raptor and TRX. And only by a little bit. But those are 700hp trucks on 37s.

 

[APIOQM]

Even the previous generation Prado/GX were over 5,000 lb. I didn't realize how heavy those were, or rather, how light 1/2 ton trucks are.

I'm curious to see the weight difference between the 1958 and other trims.

 

[Jetboy]

The SR5 Sequoia 4x4 is 6030lbs. Compared to the 3 row GX at 5710, it's not as much extra weight as I had thought. I was thinking 600lbs, but it's more like 300lbs or less. The sequoia has an HD transfer case, larger 10.5" rear axle, heavier chassis, and bigger body that all are included in the 300 lb weight difference. It may be the case that the GX just has a bunch of extra weight added for sound damping and soft touch stuff.

My 2016 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 Limited is a tank too. At a scale just me (200lbs) and my tool kit (maybe 150lbs) and a half tank of fuel was a bit over 6k lbs. I think Toyota spec on it was 5,690. Seemed pretty close to spot on with the mfg spec weight if I add probably around 400lbs of stuff all together with whatever is in the glove box, the bed cover, etc. GX550 ends up heavier than my Tundra. GX powertrain probably pulls a trailer better, but I'll take the Tundra for payload.

 

[tacoshawn]

Sharing for discussion. Platform weight matters for performance as we all know. Recent and relevant examples - Cybertrucks sliding around in the snow on tiny inclines. Why? Seems like the tires are hard as rocks to try to achieve range numbers.

A bespoke tire on Rivian that seems to perform, but only lasts 20K miles.

The Hummer EV that really seems to perform really poorly off road because it weighs 9,000lb.

I’m confident the LC250/GX will be mid 5Klbs and that should work well as a tool for many uses. Agree with the comment the Tacoma may prove to be more versatile when kitted out with all the stuff people throw on their trucks.

My preference is to try to keep the weight down as able. I’m liking the Overland and LC trims. I do wish they had a curb weight below 5K lbs. I can live with what I see so far.