Pakistan Tops

[ginsudan]

Ehsan Tops

Post photos of your tops and bows, I'm very interested on how they look!

I plan to, no one could more interested than I am. There has been a lot of comments about the quality of these tops. Both good and not so good. Ehsan assured me the concerns have been dealt with and the quality will be High. During this period of question by iH8mud members Ehsan has continued to produce and sell High Quality Land Cruiser soft tops here in the USA and around the globe. It will be great for all Land Cruiser fans to regain confidence in the products he provides. I searched past threads he started, he has a true desire to provide needed and innovative products for our Land Cruiser community. There is an untapped group of artisan craftsmen ready to fill a niche for items no longer mass produced or available for purchase else where. These Soft tops and bows are only the tip of the iceberg. I would like to hear of some of the parts that would be in demand if they were available.

 

[fattires]

it would be great if he could produce oem type tail gates..for when barn doors and hard top are off and soft top are used. they are expensive (for what they are) and most still require some repair. id think there would be a market for them, although expensive to ship individual likely need to be a larger group order to make it work.

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

it would be great if he could produce oem type tail gates..for when barn doors and hard top are off and soft top are used. they are expensive (for what they are) and most still require some repair. id think there would be a market for them, although expensive to ship individual likely need to be a larger group order to make it work.

He did make tailgates and I imported some. The issue is that the factory that makes them wants a 100 piece order. There isn't enough demand at $450 a piece (my cost) and $45K is an awfully huge gamble.
Pakistani tailgate in primer, OEM in green.

Sent from my iPad using IH8MUD

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

I plan to, no one could more interested than I am. There has been a lot of comments about the quality of these tops. Both good and not so good. Ehsan assured me the concerns have been dealt with and the quality will be High. During this period of question by iH8mud members Ehsan has continued to produce and sell High Quality Land Cruiser soft tops here in the USA and around the globe. It will be great for all Land Cruiser fans to regain confidence in the products he provides. I searched past threads he started, he has a true desire to provide needed and innovative products for our Land Cruiser community. There is an untapped group of artisan craftsmen ready to fill a niche for items no longer mass produced or available for purchase else where. These Soft tops and bows are only the tip of the iceberg. I would like to hear of some of the parts that would be in demand if they were available.

Funny, Ehsan told me every time he shipped to me that the quality would be better this time. It never was. I hope it is better for you.

Sent from my iPad using IH8MUD

 

[Sully73FJ40]

There's also a thread on here about making your own soft top. It's a good read if nothing else. Does anyone know how Jim is doing with "the list"?

I received my on "the list" top last week

 

[ginsudan]

What's the verdict

I received my on "the list" top last week

So what do you think? Southie has low expectations, let us hear your opinion.

 

[Fast Eddy]

I received my on "the list" top last week

Congrats! Post some pics.

So what do you think? Southie has low expectations, let us hear your opinion.

His top is from OCD Tops, not a Paki top. The OCD tops are known to be high quality if you can figure out how to exchange your money for one successfully.

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

So what do you think? Southie has low expectations, let us hear your opinion.

My expectations are based on my experience. I worked with Ehsan for three years so I've heard everything you're hearing before. Your experience my differ.

Sent from my iPad using IH8MUD

 

[antFJ]

My expectations are based on my experience. I worked with Ehsan for three years so I've heard everything you're hearing before. Your experience my differ.

Sent from my iPad using IH8MUD

i hope so too - my top fell apart after 2.5 years

 

[jbee]

He looks happy here!

 

[FouadHafeez]

I've been skulking around this thread for a while, now.

As an enthusiast who belongs to the exact same neck of the woods where all these rare (and I bet, much-coveted) items are fabricated, I'd like to offer some perspective...which may - or may not - conform to individual experiences.

We have a thriving domestic market for these items in Pakistan. The "off-road scene" here is a pretty active one, and stretches across the entire spectrum of ORVs. Those of you who've read about the four door 40 I'm building, will probably know...fabrication by hand is a necessity rather than a luxury here. Indeed, as it's been stated by ginsudan, earlier: the fabrication process of rebuilds is similar to the building of these bows and tops. I head to the joint, tell them what needs be done, inspect the progress when it's done, offer advice on any improvements that need to be put into place, and wait for those improvements to be effected. If needed, this procedure is repeated until the results are perfect. The artisans and craftsmen here, lack the machinery, technical knowledge of such machinery, and wherewithal to get into precision-tooled, quality-controlled CAD/CAM produced products, so it's largely a case of "let's put it together, and we'll tweak and improve it as we go along". When you're shipping a product across the world that very "we'll put minor foibles right" aspect is (sadly) something which can be addressed ONLY at great cost. Which, may lead to soured experiences I'm afraid.

The next thing, of course, is the "demand fuels supply" adage. A person who would set up a dedicated factory / venture to produce such items (tailgates, tube doors, bows, tops, stamped bezels, footboards, bibs, mudguards, quarter panels, wheel mounts, fuel tanks, jerry cans, etc) would look for a steady, regular source of income. Perhaps on a day-to-day basis. Hard fact: the domestic demand for such things is the "regular source" for such items...not an overseas order that is sporadic, at best. Which is why, the actual fabricators are willing to settle for addressing domestic orders, rather than overseas ones. Which is why, the orders shipped abroad will always be through middlemen/investors, rather than the actual fabricators, themselves.

Trust. Alex correctly mentioned that $45K for an order is an awful amount of money to be playing "blind". The same holds true for the obverse. A financial enterprise is hardly likely to go out on a limb and export $45K worth of items and state: "well...sell the stuff, and send me the money, later". It simply doesn't make good financial sense.

To end this rather lengthy post, let me just add. This isn't an attempt to provide a fig leaf to issues pertaining to quality control that others may have faced. It certainly isn't an attempt to paint a bleak picture about the possibility of such a joint venture, either.

My ride - which I'm VERY proud of - has been crafted entirely by hand. From local materials. By local craftsmen and technicians. And I mean every single bit of it. And I think it's a ******* shame that the plethora of such parts that we in Pakistan take for granted, are in such scarce supply elsewhere in the world. I'm quite certain, though...in this "shrinking" world of ours, it's inevitable that some enthusiast/entrepeneur (on either sides of the Atlantic) is going to make the uninterrupted export/import of such items a smooth, well-organised reality. Sooner rather than later, hopefully.

Until then, guys...I'm afraid it's going to have to be "let's set it up, and we'll see how we can improve it".

And by the way...I really hope that your top set exceeds your expectations, ginsudan! Cheers.

 

[hindsight]

I too have been watching these threads for about 2 years now.

That is a nice perpective on a manufacturing world that most Americans do not realize exists in the world today. Obviously there is a need for this type of product....probably more so than any other in the FJ40 realm.

Quite honestly....it is the product that a manufacturer dreams of.

1) more demand than supply
2) nothing really complex about the product
3) the product will eventually wear out (repeat customers)
4) Never has to be re-engineered

I hope that Eshan has gotten his production quality in order (if this is the case, I will likely buy one from him)...the reality is that history often repeats itself.

My feeling is that whoever is successful making/marketing this product will go one of 2 routes

A) Make it in America for an upper level price tag
B) Mass produce it in China where quality textiles are manufactured everyday for low low prices.

The whole concept of the cost of tooling and placing a large order is an ominous one indeed (I have been there) and having a warehouse full of product that you may or may not sell in a timely fashion....also a bit nauseating.

Sooner or later someone will step up to the task and do it right. Too bad it just is not happening soon enough for most of us.

Doc

 

[Diskord]

My feeling is that whoever is successful making/marketing this product will go one of 2 routes

A) Make it in America for an upper level price tag
B) Mass produce it in China where quality textiles are manufactured everyday for low low prices.

$0R already has addressed option A), and probably B) at the same time...Cheaply made textiles, sold at an upper level price tag

 

[duffontap]

$0R already has addressed option A), and probably B) at the same time...Cheaply made textiles, sold at an upper level price tag

Diskord for the win!

I wanted to ask: does anyone really have a good idea of how great the demand for OEM style tops is? I sometimes wonder if it's mostly the same 30-50 of us trying to hunt down just the right top (or dreaming about finding a deal on one).

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

Diskord for the win!

I wanted to ask: does anyone really have a good idea of how great the demand for OEM style tops is?

It depends...when there are no tops available, everyone is willing to pay anything for them. As soon as they become available, no one wants them.

 

[myquestoyota]

It depends...when there are no tops available, everyone is willing to pay anything for them. As soon as they become available, no one wants them.

 

[jbee]

My plan is to take an old Kayline top to a couple of local (Phoenix) upholstery shops and have them bid a custom top. This top is a 1986 Kayline and was parked outdoors the whole time in the white mountains of Arizona. Zippers still work and when I removed it the front and sides slid out easily. It went through the big forest fire in 2002 as well. Seems to be solid, but a bit melted and warped.

I'll provide the upholstery shops with the photos from 'mud of some Ehsan tops and OCD tops. It will likely be $1500+, but I'll bug them along the way and see the progress. If I get something nice, I'll ask them if they'll make me one or two to sell. Maybe I sell one a month, COD, to feed my habit
There's a notable boat restoration/upholstery shop here as well as several places that make convertible tops for Porsche, Mercedes, etc.

In related news, I talked to BD company in Denver yesterday. They said that of the Kayline stuff that they bought at the IRS auction, there was one FJ40 top. Its in a box and of unknown completeness and condition. They do not want to sell it or any patterns they may have for FJ40.

Photo caption: original owner of the 1973 FST. She was very sad to see it go.

 

[KY Longhunter]

Wow, she's short.

 

[jbee]

Wow, she's short.

She just has cruiser lean. Prolly from pounding that thing off road for 40 years.
She told me she 'high sided' it once and made the grandkids dig til they got tired. Then she put it in 4WD and drove it out.

 

[DSRTRDR]

I'll provide the upholstery shops with the photos from 'mud of some Ehsan tops and OCD tops. It will likely be $1500+, but I'll bug them along the way and see the progress. If I get something nice, I'll ask them if they'll make me one or two to sell. Maybe I sell one a month, COD, to feed my habit
There's a notable boat restoration/upholstery shop here as well as several places that make convertible tops for Porsche, Mercedes, etc.

Mesa Boat and Restoration quoted me ~1500-1800 with top quality material (they repaired zippers and a rip for an excellent price on my old Besttop in a few days)

don't bother with Urbina Upholstery - just sayin' - (they first were all gung-ho but would not give me a complete date one week later, and then told me three weeks later they had no capacity to do the repair job - one week before Cruise Moab )