Paid 3k in engine work and it still runs bad

sj

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A couple of months ago I took my 60 into a shop becuase it overheated, I had already replaced the water pump, fan clutch, rad and thermostat, I didn't know what else to do. They looked at it and said there was a head gasket leak, which they fixed.

I also had them rebuild my carb, I picked up my 60 a few weeks later and it has never been the same sense. It now runs hot, ( I took it back to them and they said my mechanical gauge that I istalled last month is 10 degrees off, I have not verifed this yet). When I was driving away from there shop I would stall anytime I came to a complete stop. I drove back to them and they adjusted the idle screw. Well two weeks ago i had to go through emissions, and I failed bad.

I took it back to the shop. Another tech said the idle screw was screwed all the way out. He called me a few days later and said they did some work. They found an intake leak which they repaired and then took it to another shop and it failed emissions again, he said they would work on it some more. I just got off the phone with him and he said the jets are bad. He said they can not get toyota parts and that they will put aftermarket jets in the primary and seconday. He said it may not run well but enought to pass emisions and then they can adjust them again so the 60 will run good.

My question is - Is this acceptable? After paying someone a couple hundred dollars to rebuild my carb and then not have it run properly. I don't want to have to adjust it everytime I need to pass emissions. He said these are old carbs. Does everybody do this after you rebuild carbs? Is he trying to put in larger gets to get it to run better? What should I do? Can you still get Toyota jets? I will call around today.


Sean
 

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sounds like your mechanic doesn't really know what he is doing

search for Jim Chenowith (spelling?) on this board, he makes carbs do wonderful things
 
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Where are you located? Time to find a new mechanic. You might need a carb rebuilt but it sound like they just don't know how to tune one in to run well. Send your carb to Jim C. on here and have him rebuild it. Sounds like it could be a loose vacuum line or manifold leak. You do no want to put in a larger jet unless you know it really needs it. It will cause you to fail smog and drink more gas.
 

sj

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I thought I would give a little more info. When I first took my 60 to the shop I asked them to do a compression test, they came back and told me that all cylinders were around 150 but that there was a head gasket leak. When they took the head off they found 3 valves that were burnt. The tech told me I was losing compression in those valves. I mentioned the compression test numbers and he said he didn't know anything about that. So they fixed the leak and replace the 3 valves.

Since this work has been done my temp gauge ran around the 3/4 mark it use to be at the bottom 1/4 maybe 1/3. I called the shop and told them I thought this a hot, the guy said it was normal temp but maybe my sender was bad. This bothered me because they should have fixed it. I ordered a new sender from C-dan and when I went to replace it I noticed the wire was melted in one place. I fixed the wire and replaced the sender but the temp still sat around 3/4 mark.

People here said to replace my gauge with a mechanical temp gauge, which I did. Driving around town the gauge sits around 205 to 215 mostle around 210. I went hunting one weekend and going up some hills the temp would reach 220 and then go back to 210. After that trip I decided to take it back to them to check why it is running hot, but in the mean time I had to pass emissions. Well I failed so I had two reasons to take it back, running hot and emissions. The first thing they checked was the temp because they said my mechanical guage was 10 degrees off. They then said they would look at the carb which is where I am at today.

Sean
 

sj

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Where are you located? Time to find a new mechanic. You might need a carb rebuilt but it sound like they just don't know how to tune one in to run well. Send your carb to Jim C. on here and have him rebuild it. Sounds like it could be a loose vacuum line or manifold leak.

I agree with you, but the shop I took it to is known for doing 60's and other landcruisers. Everytime I stop by they have 3 or 4 landcruisers they are working on.

I am in the Phoenix area.
 
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Sean-- some comments from your older and wiser brother

1) There is no freakin way it is the temperature gauge. You paid them 3k to replace your head gasket, and it still ran hot. You then replaced the sender with a new electrical sender, and it still ran hot. You then replaced the temp gauge with a new mechanical autometer gauge, and it consistently runs 200-210 degrees, sometimes getting to 220 degrees. It is not the gauge, these guys are just pulling it out of their butts if they expect you to believe that it is just the gauge.

2) There is no reason why it should not be able to pass emissions and run right. It passed emissions every time before they did the carb rebuild. If they really did a decent carb rebuild, that car should pass emissions easily. I think they either screwed up the head gasket replacement, screwed up the carb rebuild or both. Sean did not mention this-- but when he first picked up the 60, after just paying 3k for a head gasket and a carb rebuild, he didn't make it down the block before it started stalling. After turning around and going back to the shop they fixed it on the spot, but it is clear that instead of fixing it right, they just monkeyed with the idle adjustment to make it run. And that is why it failed emissions.

I would also be a little worried that they are just going to replace the jets with some wrong-sized jets just to get it past emissions, rather than just fixing it right.

I think that if they can't make it run right with the right sized jets, you should get your money back and send the carb to Jim C. That is probably what you should have done in the first place.

3) Don't forget that the mechanic mentioned that you might have an intake leak. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that is part of the problem-- and it may be because they screwed up the head gasket job.

Jared
 

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Did they put the head gasket in correctly? It can be flipped and block some of the coolant gallies.

I'd find a new mechanic, they seem to just fiddle with stuff without checking their work, then you pick it up and bring it back 'cause it runs like sh**t.

$3000 seems high for a HG replacement on a 60. Even with $1000 in parts (high) that leaves like 25+ hours @$70 and hour.
 
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i tend to agree with this statment. x2 x2

happens quite often to inexperienced toyota people.

this will cause the engine to overheat big time.

But in our case, it is just running 10-20 degrees hotter than it should. It seems like if they flipped the gasket wrong you would get much higher temps than just 10-20 hot. Is that true? Or would you get that kind of result from a flipped gasket?

Jared
 
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Questions I have:

The mechanic said he found an intake leak. But he didn't say where. Would an intake leak ==> run lean == run hot? It seems like if it had an intake leak it might run lean, and thus run hot. But I don't know.

And where are you likely to get an intake leak? If they messed up on the head repair, could that cause an intake leak?

What do you think?

---

Also, I am a little worried that they seem to think we need new jets now, when they didn't think we needed new jets when we first did the rebuild. Do new jets normally come with the OEM rebuild kit? I didn't think they would normally be replaced. If not, why would you need new jets?

My fear is that they still haven't found the real problem-- like an intake leak or a vacuum leak, and they are just trying to "make it work" by putting in larger jets. I would really rather have Sean get his money back for the carb rebuild and send the carb to JimC ---- rather than putting in larger jets if they are not really needed.


Jared
 
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Also, I am a little worried that they seem to think we need new jets now, when they didn't think we needed new jets when we first did the rebuild. Do new jets normally come with the OEM rebuild kit? I didn't think they would normally be replaced. If not, why would you need new jets?

What are the numbers from the smog test? I don't see how you would need new jets from just changing some valves and the head gasket. Talk about a engine rebuild and maybe. New jets don't come with any kit. They are hardly ever changed. You would maybe need new jets if everything was working right and still was running rich. Get a spray bottle of water and spray around intake manifold and bottom of the carb and if the engine starts to run rough you have found a leak. Could just be a vacuum line hooked up wrong.
 

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But in our case, it is just running 10-20 degrees hotter than it should. It seems like if they flipped the gasket wrong you would get much higher temps than just 10-20 hot. Is that true? Or would you get that kind of result from a flipped gasket?

Jared

If the gasket is indeed installed flipped the oil passage to the head will also be blocked. At the minimum unscrew the oil filler cap and take a look inside the valve cover, or dig in a little deeper and pull the cover. Are the rockers dry? If so no oil and the gasket was installed improperly.
 
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I'm sure you've done this, but might as well ask. Are you sure all the air is purged from the cooling system? That can make it run just a little hot.

Bill
 
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Questions I have:

The mechanic said he found an intake leak. But he didn't say where. Would an intake leak ==> run lean == run hot? It seems like if it had an intake leak it might run lean, and thus run hot. But I don't know.

And where are you likely to get an intake leak? If they messed up on the head repair, could that cause an intake leak?

What do you think?

---

Also, I am a little worried that they seem to think we need new jets now, when they didn't think we needed new jets when we first did the rebuild. Do new jets normally come with the OEM rebuild kit? I didn't think they would normally be replaced. If not, why would you need new jets?

My fear is that they still haven't found the real problem-- like an intake leak or a vacuum leak, and they are just trying to "make it work" by putting in larger jets. I would really rather have Sean get his money back for the carb rebuild and send the carb to JimC ---- rather than putting in larger jets if they are not really needed.


Jared

yes an intake leak will cause it to run lean and if the lean condition is bad enough it wil also make it run warmer.

from what it sounds like to me with the truck stalling less than a block away there is a vacume, intake or some other type of air leak that should not be there.
which means something was not put together right, or they got bad part ect when they did the head job. they shouldnt have to be messing aound with the jets to make it idle right and if they are having to do that your truck must have ran like crap before as well. if your truck ran well before they shouldnt need to be messing with the jets.
 

sj

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What are the numbers from the smog test? I don't see how you would need new jets from just changing some valves and the head gasket. Talk about a engine rebuild and maybe. New jets don't come with any kit. They are hardly ever changed. You would maybe need new jets if everything was working right and still was running rich. Get a spray bottle of water and spray around intake manifold and bottom of the carb and if the engine starts to run rough you have found a leak. Could just be a vacuum line hooked up wrong.

The shop has the paper work but I belive the HC were just a bit over, I think the I was around 5 with the limit being 4, but the other test, which I can't remember what it was they were looking for, was a lot over. I remembered the carbon monoixide had a number 125 and the limit was 25. I remember it being about 5 times over the limit. The last test they did they had a CO of 31.
 
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maybe im messed up but i can't get over the cost. i can rebuild an entire engine for 3K and that all new stuff boared, plate honed even. ive priced for when my tractor blows up. thats me doing the work but damn. 3k for a head gasket and a carb rebuild. maybe i am out of touch with shop prices since i do all my own work but it sounds like you got bent over the table.

x3 on the vacuum leaks when i was looking a desmog ( fortunately able to do where i live) i was amazed at the intricate vacuum line rats nest of this engine. I would bet money on poor vacuum routing. leave your carb alone. fix your vacuum leaks.

as for your intake it only ahs a few leak areas, the intake gasket, the carb gasket, and the plethora of vacuum points, unles of course its cracked but you should be able to narrow that down with a little carb cleaner or water as was suggested.

maybe you got the new mechanic!!!!!!!!!! and the work was done on a friday.

good luck
 

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