Opinions from the collective wisdom, AI & Starter replacement!

[2001LC]

So I've the Intake manifold off waiting on fuel Injectors from FIS. While waiting I've been doing catch up work of Snowy (06 LC w/194K). Like timing belt, fan bracket, all idler & tensioner bearings & pulleys, steering rack HP line & mounting bushing, dip stick tube O-ring, stabilizer system rebuild, interior stuff, paint perfecting the list is long. Over $4k in stock parts and fluids and counting.

I have front differential bushing/mount/stops, front stabilizer rebuild, wheel bearings, front drive shafts & hub flanges (new), seal, front shocks AHC, powers steering fluid, coolant, oil, paint perfecting (cutting, buffing , waxing) to complete in next few weeks along with new tires, air bag recall and more stuff.

Each day the starter & AI pump just call out to me. At 194K is it worth just replace all parts under intake manifold or just wait to see if one fails some day and replace then. They may never fail, but then we know that it's likely at least one if not both will fail someday. What would you expect in serviceable miles and/or years?

So what is the consensus here spent another ~$1K in parts or just wait.
This is from 06-07 VVTi with AI.

 

[trudd]

You know you want to

 

[2001LC]

LOL.... yep, but whats your thoughts?

Hey, I've seen factory starters still going strong at 300K. I've seen replace parts like water pump fail in 20K. I try not to replace good factory parts.

 

[jerryb]

you seem the type to have an extra stock starter freshly re done ready to go in your next car. No?
You're also the type to replace the pump, or at least the squirrel cage of same. No? ($<300)
Leave it all alone, or do them both.
For a personal vehicle I would do the bypass. For resale I would probably do both- IF I could recoup the cost.
(the rubber hoses might/will split if you take the air pump out)

 

[TXSunDevil]

If I had the know how that you do about those motors I would let it be.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'd def. do at least the starter contacts, they're cheap.

 

[AimCOtaco]

Yeah, I'd lean toward starter contacts and let it ride myself.
After all, you do enjoy the work so it's probably not worth big $$ to avoid having to pull the IM again if you keep it and I'm not sure you'd recover the cost at re-sale.

 

[Layonnn]

I would obviously do starter contacts and plunger. I believe I saw you take apart the starter and clean it inside and out on your other build. Mine had 200k on it when I did timing belt, starter, etc. My starter was filthy inside, but other than that it looked pristine once cleaned.
I'm not sure about the other parts under the intake as I have an 01', those parts could be a flux capacitor for all I know ha.

 

[2001LC]

Ok, now where getting some opinions, I love it!

So i'm around $1K just for whats under IM, that more than a "let's just do because we're in there" kind of expenses..

As for starter;

For the cost of a solenoid kit (contracts) $40 plus maybe $60 more for seal and stuff DIY on the older starters, well it is no brainier when IM off do it.

Let me say a couple things that need considering in the valley of the VVTi engine. For the 06 -07 (possibly starting in 2003) the start contact kit is not available. Toyota/Denso requires us to buy the Magnet Switch Assembly (solenoid) as complete unit ~$100 plus tax an/or shipping.

Good memory @Layonnn I did rebuild WhiteLadies (01LX470 W/215k) starter just because I was in the the valley. The contact where worn and pitting but may have lasted for many more starts. The seals all needed replacing. I also needed to replace wire block housing of starter and knock sensor due to being brittle from heat/age. I like to Clean and Round-out (true) the Commutator which adds more time to job. Brushes were ok but worn, so it doesn't hurt to replace then as well in most cases.

So when all said and consider it's close to $150-$170 rebuilding DIY plus extra time on, newer starters. That ok, but for ~$230 to my door on rebuilt Denso starter which I'm told everything but armature is replaced, is way to go IMHO.

New OEM Denso starter, I was told by one Toyota parts Department just today, "are no longer available". Only rebuild Denso's which is fine, but if buying online to save, shipping of return core $30 not worth the time and cost to deal with. So cost with shipping is about $230 without tax. Locally around $250 plus tax and gas to pick up.

But cost doesn't stop there in the VVTi.

Correct if I'm wrong, but I can't see a way to get starter out without at least partially removing AI junk in valley. Some here have report the pump failed shortly after old AI reinstalled during starter replacement, coincidence perhaps. This is concerning, as It would be very aggravating to go through trouble of replace stater only to have to pull IM again. Kinda of defeats the purpose.

I checked my best online source this morning for parts of AI, along with estimates for shipping and or tax I'm looking at:

Air Pump (under intake manifold) OEM $420

Air switching valve part of pump assemble (under intake manifold) $170

N0 2 Air switching valves two of them total (not under intake manifold, it’s between intake & firewall). $170

AI pump and switching valve also require some valves, hoses and gaskets I’ll have to call on for price. $200 is my estimate.

So now we talking $1k plus labor/time to do it right, just because intake manifold is off, with nothing remarkable or broken.... Tough nut to swallow!

you seem the type to have an extra stock starter freshly re done ready to go in your next car. No?
You're also the type to replace the pump, or at least the squirrel cage of same. No? ($<300)
Leave it all alone, or do them both.
For a personal vehicle I would do the bypass. For resale I would probably do both- IF I could recoup the cost.
(the rubber hoses might/will split if you take the air pump out)

@jerrb I did not see just squirrel cage listed for sale is this what went bad on yours after your starter job, you pulled IM a second time IIRC?

I would like a fresh rebuilt in stock, but I've enough stuff to work on now!

Bottom line I would like A fresh starter & Al, it's just difficult to justify cost when nothing wrong with factory installed stuff!

 

[2001LC]

@jerryb where did you see squirrel cage for sale?

 

[jerryb]

I will look in the morning. It was a tundra forum.

 

[2001LC]

jerry did you consider installing the block of kit, killing the AL system?

 

[jerryb]

I knew it wasn't a squirrel cage when I wrote that.. It's the impeller. But I swore they had the just the part alone. BUT, it looks like the lower portion of the GM pump is available. Or the dorman part for the entire pump including the top housing.
From this thread. Secondary air injection pump replacement - endemic issue across all 2UZ-FE V8 engines - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
included in there are amazon links. I would still check toyota master parts, Here. Toyota Parts Online | Genuine Toyota Parts & Accessories


no I on'y pulled the intake one time, then at a later date I heard the squeal. Then did the hewitt bypass. IF I had known I would have bought a new pump and replaced it the first time. Next year I will take it off again and re evaluate when I replace injectors and coil packs, more vac lines and re terminate the main ground battery wire, cleaning etc.

I would buy the aftermarket 100$ pump if I had to do it again when I did the starter. I think a crummy plastic impeller is bad no matter who makes it. I'm really on the fence about this one. Much like the fuel pump, 3 walbros = 1 toyota OEM. It'a a hard decision to make or justify. Problem is you want to remain stock, so there's your decision.
I would not replace the switching valve next to the pump.
The # 2 switching valves I would replace either unless they were bad.
the two rubber hoses I would replace, They will probably split when removed to get the starter out.

I would take it all out in your shoes and take the cover off the impeller and have a look see. Decide from there. Put a new starter in and keep the old for the next car.

BTW, I see no difference with a new FPR, millage wise. I put in a new pump, albeit walbro, @ 44 psi.
One data point you might like is that I got a small fuel spurt out of the rail when I took the bolts out of the old FPR. Then right after that a big slug of air rushed out lifting the FPR off the rail.
I replaced 5 minutes after a hot shutdown. I thought it was very weird.

 

[2001LC]

Thanks Jerry.

Interesting, I would not think you'd have air in fuel rail. Could be clue!

BTW: In older 98-02 I pull EFI fuse to cut fuel pump pressure. In newer I follow FSM recommendation and disconnect fuel pump wire block from under DS rear door.

 

[reznunt]

I happen to have an oem starter rebuild kit for sale if you're interested:

For Sale - 100 Series Starter Contacts and Plunger NEW OEM

 

[Spike555]

In my experience starters last based on usage and abusage not time or miles...your results may vary.

SAI...delete it if possible.

 

[jerryb]

I wish there was a delete. Block off flanges for the exhaust end and the #2 air valves would be a nice start. You could remove the air tubes.

 

[abuck99]

I wish there was a delete. Block off flanges for the exhaust end and the #2 air valves would be a nice start. You could remove the air tubes.

I thought this is what the Hewitt bypass took care of?

 

[jerryb]

Hewitt has for the exhaust side. You could in theory install them on the upside against the valves. They have pass through stud slots, and are extremely overpriced! Like a 50 dollar 12 pack. It's a essentially a turbo oil drain flange.
I was just thinking down the road where blocking the top valves you could then remove the aluminum tubes, which also will let you use the exhaust headers for earlier models in place of the ones with the port that are more expensive for later years. I'm sure there is a way to delete the #2 valves. I haven't looked into it much yet.
After my nav delete this is my second goal.

 

[2001LC]

Ok, I'm going to dive-in and do the starter.

Has any one tired replacing the contacts & plunge in the newer models?

@reznunt thanks for the offer but 98-02 starter kit will not work in 03-07. I may pull Magnet Switch Assembly (solenoid) apart to see for sure some day, but not today.

@jerryb

Jerry you said: "I would buy the aftermarket 100$ pump if I had to do it again when I did the starter. " What interest me here is you'd install pump in hindsight. Why do you not like the bypass?

My preference is all stock always. In muscles car days things weren't so interconnected and I did all the mods I could for power. In modern car I don't alert anything. I'm pure stock with very few exception! So when I think of bypassing and read the manufactures FAQ's I see they have next gen on the drawing to correct draw back of current. This is concerning, as to what I'd pass along to next owner. A full delete would interest me once proven with time and miles it doesn't interfere with system like ECM, o2's & CAT etc...