One more question (80 v. 60)

[Rev. Coyote]

Nuts and bolts.

Hey, thanks for all the good pointers. I think my decision will be the 95 or 95 80 with a going-over by my Yota guru back in East Va. I'll probably just get the HG replaced as preventative and roll with confidence. Plus I wanna do that bedliner thing I saw today. Too cool for words. That and a few Grateful Dead stickers.

Regarding folks being rubbed the wrong way: If that's the case, I just have to laugh. We're talking about engines here. THINGS. The discussions we have on the Dodge Cummins list are devoid of such frivolity (in gerneral). Just straight-up mechanical talk devoid of touchy territorial weirdness. But if you want the real "treatment" from me, just bring up politics...hee hee...

By the way, you want to see a down-in-the-mouth group, look at the Yahoo discussion for Dodge Durango! Poor bastards!

For the record, I ADORE Crushers. Kiss kiss.

Also, I think you rubbed some people the wrong way with the comment in your other post. I know you were just stating your opinion but some here equate criticism of the TLC with disparaging their mother (especially when you state you will get a DODGE instead!)

 

[cc93cruiser]

I think u mad the right decision, u can't go wrong with an 80, just get a locked version of it ..

 

[landtank]

I think you made the right decission. I did my HG as a PM item and don't regret it at all. I did n't get all caught up in the "while I'm in there" syndrome and just replaced the HG and put everything back together. No problems after 80k.

 

[Beowulf]

I think my decision will be the 95 or 95 80 with a going-over by my Yota guru back in East Va.

For the record, I ADORE Crushers. Kiss kiss.

Are you sure? You'll have to live with that piss-poor engine with the inferior design.

If you are seriously interested in reading and understanding the design features of the 1FZ-FE engine then let me know and I'll give you a link to the appropriate pages from the New Car Features manual. There is nothing piss-poor in the engineering of the 1FZ-FE engine. The HG failures are unfortunate and we've been seeing a small percentage every year for over 5 years. One could argue that the design of the HG was piss-poor but that would be a little hard to support knowing that most are failing after 150k and many guys have no HG failure with over 200k. IMHO, a piss-poor HG is one that routinely fails in the first 60k miles (which is still well out of Toyota's warranty period).

Buy yourself an 80. If the HG has already been replaced before you get it then smile, drive it, and enjoy your vehicle. If the HG hasn't been replaced then you have the option to do it as PM... at your leisure.... in your own garage... no drama; or you have the option to drive the truck and enjoy it while being aware that others have had failures and now you know what to look for.

Win-Win.

-B-

 

[Rev. Coyote]

Tell me something -- if Toyota knows about the orignal HG being of poor material, then why don't they issue a recall like they did for the 3.0 v-6s that had a similar issue? I read the TSBs and recalls for he 80 series and there's nothing about the HG -- but to read the MANY posts on here regarding the gasket issue, you'd think someone at Toyota would recognize an issue.

And yeah, send along that link if you can.

s:

If you are seriously interested in reading and understanding the design features of the 1FZ-FE engine then let me know and I'll give you a link to the appropriate pages from the New Car Features manual. There is nothing piss-poor in the engineering of the 1FZ-FE engine. The HG failures are unfortunate and we've been seeing a small percentage every year for over 5 years. One could argue that the design of the HG was piss-poor but that would be a little hard to support knowing that most are failing after 150k and many guys have no HG failure with over 200k. IMHO, a piss-poor HG is one that routinely fails in the first 60k miles (which is still well out of Toyota's warranty period).

 

[firetruck41]

Tell me something -- if Toyota knows about the orignal HG being of poor material, then why don't they issue a recall like they did for the 3.0 v-6s that had a similar issue? I read the TSBs and recalls for he 80 series and there's nothing about the HG -- but to read the MANY posts on here regarding the gasket issue, you'd think someone at Toyota would recognize an issue.

And yeah, send along that link if you can.

I would guess because there are relatively few failures and they are at relatively high miles. Not many manufacturers issue recalls for 10-14 year old vehicles.

Of course there are many posts on here regarding HGs because:
1) we are mostly anal enthusiast that worry about everything, and
2) the non-enthusiasts always find forums like this when they have problems and try to troubleshoot/fix them, the ones that have no issues don't come to the forum saying "hi, I've owned my 80 for 10 years and never had a HG failure, just wanted to let you know!"

 

[Beowulf]

Tell me something -- if Toyota knows about the orignal HG being of poor material, then why don't they issue a recall

Those are your words; not mine and they're certainly not Toyota's words. AFAIC, it is pointless to rehash this subject again. If you want to be "up to speed" on the HG issues then start doing some research here on 'Mud. We have covered everything feasible from class action lawsuits, to demanding a recall, to PM replacement, to "get over it," to ignoring it, and everything in between.

You've been given the viable options in my prior post.

-B-

 

[Rev. Coyote]

Just an observation about this forum...

...there are some edgy attitudes. I don't get it.

 

[GXO]

Ask Toyota?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Rev,

Stick around awhile and you'll see this is a pretty straight up bunch not given to reckless abuse or senseless bashing other forums such as Pirate have condoned and encouraged. Informed and considerate discussion is the order of the day here on Mud. We get a few folks who've been on the aforementioned forums for years that arrive here thinking it's best to be controversial and harsh right away because that way they're in the pecking order and 'cool'. Generally, we get our feathers ruffled when someone arrives on a single-make forum and labels it piss-poor like any group of guys so your above noted posts pretty much labeled you in that category.

I'm not saying we don't get spirited and opinionated and loud-mouthed here - just that there's a higher level of respect than any forum I've ever been on. Read some of the threads and you'll find a refreshing lack of folks calling each other names and getting upset over personal issues. More tech, less BS. We do have a Chat forum for the BS, however, and that gets a bit edgy.

So. You'll probably change your mind about attitudes around here after getting to know the place a little better.

Welcome,

DougM

 

[Mike S]

Rev

I've owned and driven (a lot) an FJ40, an FJ60, and now have an FZJ80.

The 60 has the fewest things that are likely to go wrong, and is TOUGH. The 80 has much more power and comfort - and is even MORE capable on a trail. Mileage was a little better on the 60. The 40 beat the snot out of me, but I had a lot of fun in it. My old butt likes the 80 best.

Mike S

 

[zcruiser]

I owned a 60 and have to say you guys are on crack.

The 80 has been hands down a more reliable vehicle. I got rid of the 60 at 186,000 because the engine had become a leak fest and the body was turning to crap, the truck was 8 years old. The 80 is almost 11 years old, has 200,000 on it and is in better shape than the 60 when it had 60,000 on it.

I don't think two samples represents the majority of experiences on mud. I have both a 62 and an 80, both with ~200K, both basically the same condition and reliability, the 80 being 5 years older. My 62 w. OME+BFG is definitely more trail-capable, the stock 80 more of a DD and has become the vehicle of choice in our house for running errands (mpg notwithstanding). Regardless, I believe there are examples of lemons of each but the majority will say either truck will do the job depending on maintenance and mods.

 

[landtank]

...there are some edgy attitudes. I don't get it.

You basically come into our Pool and Pee in it with that "piss poor" statement after what...3 posts. Yes, Un-informed loud mouths tend to irritate a few of us. And it's not about a thing or an object it's about You.

I personally don't get the big deal on the HG either. The engine seems to have been placed on some pedestal and a HG failure is some life altering experience that's barely survivable.

I think it's most likely do to the fact that most capable hobbyists don't have the confidence to do the job and the thought of having to face the unknown wears on them.

I think that those who have done the job will attest to it's ease, but it is involved.

 

[landtank]

I don't think two samples represents the majority of experiences on mud. I have both a 62 and an 80, both with ~200K, both basically the same condition and reliability, the 80 being 5 years older. My 62 w. OME+BFG is definitely more trail-capable, the stock 80 more of a DD and has become the vehicle of choice in our house for running errands (mpg notwithstanding). Regardless, I believe there are examples of lemons of each but the majority will say either truck will do the job depending on maintenance and mods.

I was more specific to the 60. One big problem was the fact that the seal between the transfer case and tranny would fail. When this happened the transfer case would pump gear lube into the tranny and over fill it. It happened to me and the tranny had to be pulled and repaired. This was so common that MAF built a transfer tube that when from the fill hole on the tranny to the fill hole on the transfer so the oil would drain back down. There is a bunch more I could tell you. But that was way before forums like this and the trucks still new to everyone so I was seeing problems first hand.

This forum and others like it are great at massing gobs of info that one can use to forecast problems and pro actively repair the truck before it gets out of hand.

You would have to show me that your 62 is more capable than my 80, I just don't see that.

 

[Rev. Coyote]

What the hell...

I just found out a friend died, so the following comment may have a little fire:

If you take offense to a judgement on an engine design, then take the cheap-ass shot of calling me an uniformed loudmouth, perhaps you need to look inward and find out why you're so touchy over something so benign. If my posts offend you so much, maybe you shouldn't read them.

I'll ask the same thing I asked IdahoDrug: Were you on the design team for the engine? Otherwise why take such offense?

And yes, I don't see the big deal in tearing down the topside of an inline 6 to put in a gasket. Whoop-te-doo.

I'll stop now. It's been a trying day and the temptation to cut loose on the soft-bellied is way too great.

Have a great day.

Sheesh.

Wm

You basically come into our Pool and Pee in it with that "piss poor" statement after what...3 posts. Yes, Un-informed loud mouths tend to irritate a few of us. And it's not about a thing or an object it's about You.

I personally don't get the big deal on the HG either. The engine seems to have been placed on some pedestal and a HG failure is some life altering experience that's barely survivable.

I think it's most likely do to the fact that most capable hobbyists don't have the confidence to do the job and the thought of having to face the unknown wears on them.

I think that those who have done the job will attest to it's ease, but it is involved.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Wm,

Sorry to hear of your loss - truly. That's a pretty difficult thing to have come your way no matter how old we are, and no matter what our station in life, and no matter how good we think we are at dealing with tough things. Hope your friend's family finds peace and solace, and that they and the others are left behind with fond memories.

Regards,

DougM

 

[Beowulf]

If you take offense to a judgement on an engine design, then take the cheap-ass shot of calling me an uniformed loudmouth, ...

Coyote,
You questioned why people were rankled by your first few posts and Rick gave you a very direct reply. That's not a cheap shot where I come from; that's giving you information about yourself that you need to hear/read and you're not gonna hear that from your momma.

I'll have to find my electronic NCF, extract the engine pages, and post them to my web site. It might take a few days so feel free to remind me later this week if I forget.

-B-

 

[landtank]

Sorry to hear about your friend. Luckily it's been a long time for something like that for me.

And if it helps go ahead and dump on me, I'm from Boston and we're pretty thick skinned.

 

[Rev. Coyote]

OK, now you have me laughing! I'm from Virginia (BY GOD) and we're still sore about the Civil War.

Cheers,
Rev. Coyote

Sorry to hear about your friend. Luckily it's been a long time for something like that for me.

And if it helps go ahead and dump on me, I'm from Boston and we're pretty thick skinned.

 

[cruiser88]

if i may ask what part of va