Assuming an oil pressure in the galley of 60 psig, and a effective diameter of 22 mm (deduct 1 mm of radius for the counterbore) I calculate 35 lbs of force pushing on the plug. 80 psig, 47 lbs of force.
Avoid 20w-50 motor oil!
Oil Galley Plug Replacement
- Thread starter Chief010
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Avoid 20w-50 motor oil!
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
.
MatthewMcD
SILVER Star
Seriously? Considering the summertime temps and all, 20-50 has been the recommendation from all my Texas '40 friends.
Thanks Mark, Is removal running a sheet metal screw through the center and then prying it out?I like to set mine by holding a small ball peen hammer over the middle of the plug, and hitting the hammer with a larger ball peen hammer, face to face. I set the idler plugs in the transfer case the same way. Never had an issue with either.
I would proceed cautiously with an aftermarket plug. I have seen ones that were too thin IMO. But as mentioned, thorough preparation is key.
Since the galley hole steps down directly behind the plug, the block itself provides a good stop for using a dremel directly in front of the step, so that the plug is slightly nested in the hole once striken. I did this once on a customer’s rebuilt engine because the plug the machine shop installed failed shortly after startup, and it spooked me.
IIRC, it was @fjl40 engine. Am I remembering this correctly John? It was over 30 years ago.
Because you just can't trust Toyota's factory literature? They are absolutely certain that above-spec. viscosity won't contribute to engine wear.
From the supplier - Oil Viscosity Explained: 5w20 vs. 5w30 vs. 10w30 - https://www.autozone.com/diy/motor-oil/viscosity-5w20-vs-5w30-vs-10w30#h-selecting-the-right-oil-for-your-vehicle
Even if it means that the pump will work harder to circulate less oil? Do you remember that orange material on the top of the SOR-re-conditioned head on your last engine? That was for cooling. A less viscous oil cools the engine better.
MatthewMcD
SILVER Star
Good to know, thanks!
These are old tractor motors. They are not like today's cars that have very very specific oil tolerances.
I am and will run 20w50 ZR1 or if I can't find the ZR1, then any 20w50 with a ZDDT additive. This is what I run in all of my flat tappet engines. This is what I have run in ALL of my flat tappet engines for decades. This is what I recommended and used back when I was wrenching. I am in the PNW now but when I lived the high desert, same oil. Your mileage may vary but I've seen first hand what happens when you don't have zinc in your oil, so at least do that.
Glyptal?
That was my thought when I saw that orange.
I agree in a way. But, I don't recommend any oil to anyone. I'm only suggesting an oil.
But, the flat-tappet cam issues went away a few years ago - this is because they changed their detergent to deal with low-speed-pre-ignition in turbo and modern engines. You don't literally need zddp in your oil, you want it bonded to iron at bearing surfaces, but the detergent of a decade ago would remove those zddp deposits, just like it was targeting other deposits. It also modified the octane rating when it mixed with fuel in deposit prone areas, so they got rid of it, with the goal of higher temp. and compression.
I'm thinking that it must be my perspective. That resistance to flow is a good thing - I'm having a hard time understanding that? Yes, on bearings surfaces. However, if your oil is creating enough friction, that you observe changes in your fuel economy, where does all that heat go?
The (relatively tight) 2Fs not-so-tractor bearing clearances of .0008-.0017-inch means that it probably needs less viscosity than a tractor that had bearings with greater oil clearances. The clearance is associated with the oil-viscosity. Too much viscosity creates too much resistance to flow, too little viscosity and you compromise protection against wear. I'm thinking that it is a balance.
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Sorry Matt, but the ‘knowledge’ in this thread has exceeded my tolerance, like the ‘science’ behind the pandemic. 
I’m out.
I’m out.
MatthewMcD
SILVER Star
Me too, I ran break in oil that was recommended by the builder and now running VR1 with Zinc for the first 500. Then change and that's was going to be my next fill as well.
The initiator of this thread, @Chief010, lives in Ithaca NY….I grew up there….in 1968 when my Dan had me change oil in his Chevy Van (6 banger, not too different than a 2F)….winter was 10w30…summer was 30w….20w50 has the same basic properties as 30w, broader temperature range. And maintains a bit better viscosity at 100c. If I still lived in NY, I would stick to that old rule, ‘thin her down for the cold winter starts, thicken her up for summertime heat’.
And if @Chief010 needs an extra hand to install a Welch plug, I’ll be in Ithaca next weekend. Just visiting….
And if @Chief010 needs an extra hand to install a Welch plug, I’ll be in Ithaca next weekend. Just visiting….
Same in CO, my first FJ40 was a 62’ with worn out motor; would run 20-50 in warm months, but back to 10-30 in winter. Colorado has tended warmer since then (lonng ago) but we still have a few weeks of single digits, dropping into minuses. Have had less worn out junk more recently and haven’t run 20-50 in a while..
Anyone want to start a betting pool on how long that lasts?
You guys have media overload if you need the train of threads spelled out for you.
Mark A. wants to start a betting pool on the pasted in plug.
Mark J. says first cold start, maybe 2.
Maigheoman runs the pi r2 calc to estimate the "motive force" working on the paste job.
Referring back to Mark J.'s cold morning start being a triggering factor, and common (misconception?) that heavy weight oil boosts oil pump pressure,
Don't use 20w-50.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to all of the thread HIJACKERS THAT JUMPED IN AFTER THE FACT!
My rocker assemblies on all my collection are shedding their brass, and it collects at the bottom of the catch-pan when I change the oil. These already worn-out parts have to last, because currently, this set of valve-train parts aren't available new. Iirc, Mark Jennings described rotating the rocker shaft (so the bolts / rocker shaft screws still clear the dimple in the shaft, iirc) and you get an unused rocker shaft surface, but the rocker arm bushes are still kinda crooked (visually).
You can buy a new or rebuilt camshaft and lifters (I think).
The engine in my Datsun, I can hear it when the oil finally makes its way to the upper engine after start-up, especially when the engine is cold. After a few seconds, the clatter is much softer, but it is still there. It has the same overhead cam with solid lifters, rotating push-rods, but the motor is ten years newer.
I don't really know that the lower viscosity oils will make it to the top of the 2F faster (I've never measured it), but the advice from the article in AutoZone is to get the top of the engine oiled, after start-up as soon as possible. I do a lot of short-trip driving. @MatthewMcD You mentioned the VR1. Not the 10W-30, but, the monogrades that they make, you'll find the same 1400ppm zddp as the 20W50 VR1. Just a suggestion, as the monogrades might provide better start-up protection for the upper rocker assembly, both for anti-wear zinc, and they come in winter-temp viscosity.
You can buy a new or rebuilt camshaft and lifters (I think).
The engine in my Datsun, I can hear it when the oil finally makes its way to the upper engine after start-up, especially when the engine is cold. After a few seconds, the clatter is much softer, but it is still there. It has the same overhead cam with solid lifters, rotating push-rods, but the motor is ten years newer.
I don't really know that the lower viscosity oils will make it to the top of the 2F faster (I've never measured it), but the advice from the article in AutoZone is to get the top of the engine oiled, after start-up as soon as possible. I do a lot of short-trip driving. @MatthewMcD You mentioned the VR1. Not the 10W-30, but, the monogrades that they make, you'll find the same 1400ppm zddp as the 20W50 VR1. Just a suggestion, as the monogrades might provide better start-up protection for the upper rocker assembly, both for anti-wear zinc, and they come in winter-temp viscosity.
You guys have media overload if you need the train of threads spelled out for you.
Mark A. wants to start a betting pool on the pasted in plug.
Mark J. says first cold start, maybe 2.
Maigheoman runs the pi r2 calc to estimate the "motive force" working on the paste job.
Referring back to Mark J.'s cold morning start being a triggering factor, and common (misconception?) that heavy weight oil boosts oil pump pressure,
Don't use 20w-50.
Obviously, that doesn't apply to all of the thread HIJACKERS THAT JUMPED IN AFTER THE FACT!
I was 100% tracking with you
MatthewMcD
SILVER Star
I didn't think I was hijacking...until the wheels fell off.
Isn't there a dedicated plug installation tool somewhere?
The video I found suggests that you drive it in from the circumference, not exactly a ball-peen on the center?
Whatever.
The video I found suggests that you drive it in from the circumference, not exactly a ball-peen on the center?
Whatever.
The OEM is a Welch plug. When you "dent" the middle of it with a ball pein hammer, the flattening effect expands the O.D. to a friction fit on the engine block.
Core (or cupped) plugs have a flange which is slightly flared, so those are driven in from just inside the flange, in accordance with your video.
The flange is squeezed into the engine block. (NOT F) 2F engines use these on the manifold side of the engine block, and a bunch of smaller ones in the head.
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Dude……F engines use welsh plugs throughout. There are only a couple exceptions….cylinder head uses cups, cam plug is a cup, and the 3 speed column transmission cover uses a cup on the back side of the shift lever.
