Whether or not the vehicle is garaged at night is a factor. If its garaged, considering the climate you are in and your short trips, Im not sure that much sludge under the cap is out of the ordinary. Ive seen sludge-filled caps in SC.
Oil change WTF (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter KLF
- Start date
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Markuson
SILVER Star
Seems to me you can clarify the short-drive theory pretty easily. Dry the cap...Hop on a highway for an hour or more and check again. If it is dripping wet again, take it in. If not...probably just normal sensitivity to short drives and humidity.
- Thread starter
- #43
This is driving me crazy.
At this point my delay in taking it to a dealer is simply that I have no way to do this. First, I don't trust them. Just this morning my daughter took her '03 Camry in to a dealer near us for a wheel bearing noise, and they quoted her $800 to fix it, and told her the car was unsafe to drive. She left. We dropped it at a local indy shop that I trust (Toyota certified tech), he laughed when I showed him the quote. She has our Highlander for now.
So, even if I did have a dealer I trust, work and home obligations don't give me the time to sit and wait. My wife had surgery on her right leg on Monday and is unable to drive for at least a couple of weeks. The Cruiser is the only car we currently have. Even if the diagnosis and repair was free, I wouldn't be able to have it done. My indy guy had never heard of this, at least this bad.
Rant: It infuriates me that I bought (supposedly) a flagship vehicle and now this is happening. This is Land Rover crap. I buy Toyotas so I don't have these issues. I guess I've been spoiled by all the previous Toyota/Lexus cars/trucks I've owned, and it's now catching up to me.
Phew. Cold adult beverage in hand now. Oh I have a raging tooth ache that won't get dentist attention until Monday, so that has me grumpy, so I apologize.
I took a much longer drive home tonight, almost 50 miles. When I got the truck home, I pulled the cap off and yup, it was covered with water again. Leaving the cap off tonight. The truck is garaged every night, and I really don't think we've had high humidity, it's too cold. Going to try to find a PCV valve tomorrow, it doesn't look hard to change. Will report back on those results. I have a 3 hour drive on Saturday to a wedding.
Thank you all for your feedback, I really do appreciate it.
At this point my delay in taking it to a dealer is simply that I have no way to do this. First, I don't trust them. Just this morning my daughter took her '03 Camry in to a dealer near us for a wheel bearing noise, and they quoted her $800 to fix it, and told her the car was unsafe to drive. She left. We dropped it at a local indy shop that I trust (Toyota certified tech), he laughed when I showed him the quote. She has our Highlander for now.
So, even if I did have a dealer I trust, work and home obligations don't give me the time to sit and wait. My wife had surgery on her right leg on Monday and is unable to drive for at least a couple of weeks. The Cruiser is the only car we currently have. Even if the diagnosis and repair was free, I wouldn't be able to have it done. My indy guy had never heard of this, at least this bad.
Rant: It infuriates me that I bought (supposedly) a flagship vehicle and now this is happening. This is Land Rover crap. I buy Toyotas so I don't have these issues. I guess I've been spoiled by all the previous Toyota/Lexus cars/trucks I've owned, and it's now catching up to me.
Phew. Cold adult beverage in hand now. Oh I have a raging tooth ache that won't get dentist attention until Monday, so that has me grumpy, so I apologize.
I took a much longer drive home tonight, almost 50 miles. When I got the truck home, I pulled the cap off and yup, it was covered with water again. Leaving the cap off tonight. The truck is garaged every night, and I really don't think we've had high humidity, it's too cold. Going to try to find a PCV valve tomorrow, it doesn't look hard to change. Will report back on those results. I have a 3 hour drive on Saturday to a wedding.
Thank you all for your feedback, I really do appreciate it.
DirtDawg
"It'd be alot cooler if you did"
I will throw in a data point: moisture and emulsified oil are more common in vehicles with plastic filler necks. I know this doesn’t affect anything but figured I’d just throw it in here for future reference. Tacoma’s V6 and the 5.7 in the tundra have seen more cases like this than previous engine models.
- Thread starter
- #45
Interesting. I guess I can kinda see this happening, the filler neck sticking up would be cooler than the inside of the engine, so any airborne water would condense in the filler and cap. Hmmm.... but why isn't anybody else having this issue?
Markuson
SILVER Star
I dislike dealers more than most. And I do most of my own servicing as a result. Enough that I have a lift in my home garage. Dealers are notorious for charging too much to do too little.
But, they are great at diagnostics. With factory backed tools and knowledge base. No one is saying you have to get your car fixed at a dealership. Far from it. Get her diagnosed first.... before you pile on hundreds of more miles that could be harmful for your engine! It's small insurance against an expensive engine. Toyota dealerships these days also offer loaners, so only car is not a problem. Or you may have to pay $30-40 for car rental right at the dealership. Again small potatoes against an expensive engine!
As someone has suggested earlier, you do have your own options too. Send some oil to Blackstone. You'll know right away how deviant the oil is in your car against normal, if at all.
But, they are great at diagnostics. With factory backed tools and knowledge base. No one is saying you have to get your car fixed at a dealership. Far from it. Get her diagnosed first.... before you pile on hundreds of more miles that could be harmful for your engine! It's small insurance against an expensive engine. Toyota dealerships these days also offer loaners, so only car is not a problem. Or you may have to pay $30-40 for car rental right at the dealership. Again small potatoes against an expensive engine!
As someone has suggested earlier, you do have your own options too. Send some oil to Blackstone. You'll know right away how deviant the oil is in your car against normal, if at all.
Received a new PCV valve yesterday and installed it today. The old one did not rattle, and was presumably clogged. I only had a little yellow pudding in my cap, but thought I'd replace the PCV just in case that exacerbated the problem.
The PCV is plastic and screws into the plastic manifold. My original PCV was loose in the threads. The new one only requires 44 in/lbs of torque, be careful not to over tighten.
The PCV is plastic and screws into the plastic manifold. My original PCV was loose in the threads. The new one only requires 44 in/lbs of torque, be careful not to over tighten.
bloc
SILVER Star
Keep in mind that for the oil to "boil off" any collected/condensed water, the OIL has to get up to temp, and this can take MUCH longer after startup than the water. So while you may see the water temp get to the normal range the oil could still be cold and this stuff can happen.
I'd also venture to guess that with so much condensation getting collected previously one or two long trips may not be enough to deal with all of this. Personally I'd buy a bunch of oil and do a couple relatively quick changes, making sure to get the engine good and warm for some time before dropping it for a change. These flushes will make sure the oil in the truck is still protecting, while doing what you can to remove the water.
Then, put a high quality approved oil in, run it for 1k, and send a sample off to blackstone or similar for testing.
Edit: lab testing is VERY sensitive to coolant, so if you are worried about even a miniscule leak (head gasket or oil cooler are two potentials) sending off for testing is smart. If they report no coolant found it must be condensation.
I'd also venture to guess that with so much condensation getting collected previously one or two long trips may not be enough to deal with all of this. Personally I'd buy a bunch of oil and do a couple relatively quick changes, making sure to get the engine good and warm for some time before dropping it for a change. These flushes will make sure the oil in the truck is still protecting, while doing what you can to remove the water.
Then, put a high quality approved oil in, run it for 1k, and send a sample off to blackstone or similar for testing.
Edit: lab testing is VERY sensitive to coolant, so if you are worried about even a miniscule leak (head gasket or oil cooler are two potentials) sending off for testing is smart. If they report no coolant found it must be condensation.
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- Thread starter
- #50
I also picked up a new PCV valve this morning, hoping it will cure my issues.
This is a surprisingly easy thing to change, I think it took me all of about 3 minutes. You pop the engine cover off, pull the hose off (use pliers to move the wire clamps), then use a 22mm deep socket to remove the valve, very easy. Put a dab of grease on the new one, 44 in-lbs tight.
My old valve was totally clogged, nothing could pass through it either way, and the check valve jiggler was frozen. I then drove the truck about 250 miles today, definitely aired out the engine. I'm optimistic this is the fix, will update after a few heat cycles. Truck seems to run a little smoother, but it could be my imagination.
If you have over 100K miles and no record of this valve being replaced, just do it. Cost is only about $8-9, and very easy to do.
Update with a photo, this is the PCV valve, right in front if the intake plenum, hose removed. The worst part is dealing with that chunk of foam, which I assume is only there for noise insulation. The valve is plastic, mine was actually barely finger tight when I removed it. I suppose you can just soak it in solvent to remove any accumulated oil lacquer, but it's so cheap IMO it's not worth it, just get a new one. I had to special-order mine, no dealers in my area had one in stock.
This is a surprisingly easy thing to change, I think it took me all of about 3 minutes. You pop the engine cover off, pull the hose off (use pliers to move the wire clamps), then use a 22mm deep socket to remove the valve, very easy. Put a dab of grease on the new one, 44 in-lbs tight.
My old valve was totally clogged, nothing could pass through it either way, and the check valve jiggler was frozen. I then drove the truck about 250 miles today, definitely aired out the engine. I'm optimistic this is the fix, will update after a few heat cycles. Truck seems to run a little smoother, but it could be my imagination.
If you have over 100K miles and no record of this valve being replaced, just do it. Cost is only about $8-9, and very easy to do.
Update with a photo, this is the PCV valve, right in front if the intake plenum, hose removed. The worst part is dealing with that chunk of foam, which I assume is only there for noise insulation. The valve is plastic, mine was actually barely finger tight when I removed it. I suppose you can just soak it in solvent to remove any accumulated oil lacquer, but it's so cheap IMO it's not worth it, just get a new one. I had to special-order mine, no dealers in my area had one in stock.
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Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
- Thread starter
- #52
I downloaded the ISO in this thread:
200 Service Manual
Used that to find the procedure for testing and installing the PCV. Torque spec provided there was 44 in-lb.
I talked to my indy guy today, he is actually Toyota certified, and said they used to change them on all Tundras at 30,000 miles. He said the torque isn't important, he just snugged them down. The O-ring is the seal.
200 Service Manual
Used that to find the procedure for testing and installing the PCV. Torque spec provided there was 44 in-lb.
I talked to my indy guy today, he is actually Toyota certified, and said they used to change them on all Tundras at 30,000 miles. He said the torque isn't important, he just snugged them down. The O-ring is the seal.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Sometimes I wonder how about these service manuals. This isn't the first time i've found discrepancies.
Anyway, 30,000 miles is pretty short for a 5.7. I'm Toyota certified also, and we did that on the older 4.7, but then again, I left Toyota right when the 5.7 was showing. I checked my PCV today and it was fine with 104,000 miles on my 2011.
I'm sure hoping this was all your truck needed. I still feel there was a lot of sludge in there that is being pulled out from a high quality oil. Hope it works out for yeah, hate to see a fellow mudder have a serious engine issue.
- Thread starter
- #55
Well I have been checking the dipstick and fill cap every morning. Starting yesterday the dipstick was 100% clear of any goo, and there was only a faint residue of water on the cap. Coolant in the reservoir (when cold) still hasn't budged one millimeter. Was gonna give it a few more heat cycles to see if it fully goes away. If not, then it goes in to a dealership once my wife is back driving.
Toyota does issue updates, so it’s possible there’s a single page update which notes the correct torque spec
I also get the yellowish goo on my filler neck and cap. It is only in the winter months. It never happens when it's warm outside. It worried me the first time I saw it. I did a lot of research on it and determined it is just condensation and not to worry. I just clean it off when I check the oil.
@Taco2Cruiser, apparently the torque spec was updated at some point. Either that or the torque spec for the US 3UR-FE is different than the torque spec for the rest of the world.
This is what the manual says as of Aug 2017 for US vehicles:
This is what the manual says as of Aug 2017 for US vehicles:
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Good to know, I’ll go out and tighten it up a bit more.
- Thread starter
- #60
I hereby proclaim this PROBLEM SOLVED.
Did about 30 miles yesterday. Cap was completely perfectly clean this morning, not a bit of water or moisture. Phew!
@mejerifly , change the PCV valve next time you do an oil change.
Did about 30 miles yesterday. Cap was completely perfectly clean this morning, not a bit of water or moisture. Phew!
@mejerifly , change the PCV valve next time you do an oil change.
