gaijin
GOLD Star
Official 200 Series Chat and BS Thread (1 Viewer)
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Markuson
SILVER Star
Market VALUE...not market share, of course...
Here are a couple sources, but it’s all over business news (just google “Tesla Market Value”)
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
Tesla replaces Toyota as world's most valuable automaker
Markuson
SILVER Star
One more...
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.
...simultaneously rocketing to the very bottom of the Initial Quality ratings. Worse than Land Rover!
(that study seems bogus, Toyota was below average which seems odd)
Markuson
SILVER Star
Ya, that sounds weird, but who knows how they assess quality...
A company’s current market value is cut and dry—just what is the company worth in total at current prices. Quality assessments OTOH are up for debate about how they weighted types and severity of defects, scoring and on and on.
But meh... I’m a bigger fan of reliability ratings that initial perfection. I love my LC because after 13 years and all original power/drive train...it’s still smooth and reliable.
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
The JD Power thing is as ridiculous as a “quality” survey can get. If someone is coming from a 2000 Ford Taurus wagon and can’t figure out within the first couple weeks how to manually control the rear defroster in a Tesla, that dings the JD Power initial “quality” survey. JD Power is an ICE industry funded advertising campaign that has a vested interest in trying to discredit Tesla because Tesla is producing some of the highest tech, safest, fastest, most efficient, and most affordable (relative to performance) vehicles ever made. You think Tesla would ever pay for an award from JD Power? Nope! That’s why Tesla ranks dead last - and it has little to do with their actual quality.
I don’t own a Tesla any more, and I don’t own any Tesla stock, unfortunately. But I have owned 2 Model 3s in the past, and I can say the quality on both was excellent. The only “issue” I had on the first car, which 99% of people wouldn’t notice, was the turn signal stalk at half press wouldn’t always turn on the 3 flash turn signal. Apparently it was a problem with certain cars’ signal stalks, so they came out to my office and swapped the stalk in the parking lot with literally zero inconvenience on my end. No other issues in 6k miles. The second Model 3 I had I took to the drag strip with under 100 miles from new (ran 11.59 quarter mile on all seasons) and had zero issues in over 7k miles.
Automakers like Tesla terrify the incumbents because they’re comfortable (and very profitable) with slight incremental changes. Exponential leaps in efficiency, safety, connectivity, and performance of the vehicles combined with dramatically improved supply chain, distribution, sales channels, and consumer experience from the corporate side is incredibly disruptive to the industry. The future is very different from the past, and I think fear of that change drives much of the anti Tesla narrative. I personally recommend anyone who has never been in a Tesla to go test drive one and floor it a few times and see what sort of complaints they have afterwards. EVs are a game changer, and we Land Cruiser enthusiasts would be very lucky to get a strong hybrid or EV Cruiser in the future!
I don’t own a Tesla any more, and I don’t own any Tesla stock, unfortunately. But I have owned 2 Model 3s in the past, and I can say the quality on both was excellent. The only “issue” I had on the first car, which 99% of people wouldn’t notice, was the turn signal stalk at half press wouldn’t always turn on the 3 flash turn signal. Apparently it was a problem with certain cars’ signal stalks, so they came out to my office and swapped the stalk in the parking lot with literally zero inconvenience on my end. No other issues in 6k miles. The second Model 3 I had I took to the drag strip with under 100 miles from new (ran 11.59 quarter mile on all seasons) and had zero issues in over 7k miles.
Automakers like Tesla terrify the incumbents because they’re comfortable (and very profitable) with slight incremental changes. Exponential leaps in efficiency, safety, connectivity, and performance of the vehicles combined with dramatically improved supply chain, distribution, sales channels, and consumer experience from the corporate side is incredibly disruptive to the industry. The future is very different from the past, and I think fear of that change drives much of the anti Tesla narrative. I personally recommend anyone who has never been in a Tesla to go test drive one and floor it a few times and see what sort of complaints they have afterwards. EVs are a game changer, and we Land Cruiser enthusiasts would be very lucky to get a strong hybrid or EV Cruiser in the future!
Markuson
SILVER Star
My phone has been reading people’s posts for me in a female, South African accent voice... You sound nice, Matt! haha
But vision crap aside... re “quality.”
-Exactly why I discount those “initial quality” declarations from most of those sources.
Those same groups love to declare other seemingly random titles like “Truck Of The Year...” etc -Whatever the heck that’s supposed to prove. When Isee the pronouncements anymore, I roll my eyes and remember how many years it’s been since I’ve been phased by them.
And then there are always those pesky, petty details...
But don't let that ruin the party...
Last week, Business Insider reported that when Tesla began selling its Model S back in 2012, the cars were equipped with a "poorly designed battery" that was susceptible to leaking, and that said leaks may have been the cause of short circuits and ensuing fires. More damning, however, and potentially exposing the company to criminal prosecution, is that Musk sold the cars despite allegedly knowing about the potentially deadly flaw. According to the report, the leaks became an "urgent concern" in spring 2012 due to two problems with the cooling system:
But don't let that ruin the party...
Last week, Business Insider reported that when Tesla began selling its Model S back in 2012, the cars were equipped with a "poorly designed battery" that was susceptible to leaking, and that said leaks may have been the cause of short circuits and ensuing fires. More damning, however, and potentially exposing the company to criminal prosecution, is that Musk sold the cars despite allegedly knowing about the potentially deadly flaw. According to the report, the leaks became an "urgent concern" in spring 2012 due to two problems with the cooling system:
- First, the aluminum Tesla chose to use for the end fitting of the cooling tube sourced from a Chinese company, was susceptible to cracks and pinholes, according to tests done by the third-party firm IMR Test Lab in the summer of 2012. Business Insider reviewed these test results.
- And second, the design of the end fitting piece in the cooling system was imperfect, such that even after the part was brazed together, there were gaps between the cooling coil and its end fitting piece that connected it to the car, according to emails viewed by Business Insider. Sometimes, employees would have to force pieces together with a hammer to close gaps, according to internal Tesla documents viewed by Business Insider and a former Tesla employee.
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
And then there are always those pesky, petty details...
But don't let that ruin the party...
Last week, Business Insider reported that when Tesla began selling its Model S back in 2012, the cars were equipped with a "poorly designed battery" that was susceptible to leaking, and that said leaks may have been the cause of short circuits and ensuing fires. More damning, however, and potentially exposing the company to criminal prosecution, is that Musk sold the cars despite allegedly knowing about the potentially deadly flaw. According to the report, the leaks became an "urgent concern" in spring 2012 due to two problems with the cooling system:
While traditionally federal regulators have ignored complaints about subpar Tesla quality control and design, this time the company, which earlier today surpassed Toyota as the world's most valuable car maker with its stock price rising above $1,100 per share and equivalent to a market cap above $200 billion...
- First, the aluminum Tesla chose to use for the end fitting of the cooling tube sourced from a Chinese company, was susceptible to cracks and pinholes, according to tests done by the third-party firm IMR Test Lab in the summer of 2012. Business Insider reviewed these test results.
- And second, the design of the end fitting piece in the cooling system was imperfect, such that even after the part was brazed together, there were gaps between the cooling coil and its end fitting piece that connected it to the car, according to emails viewed by Business Insider. Sometimes, employees would have to force pieces together with a hammer to close gaps, according to internal Tesla documents viewed by Business Insider and a former Tesla employee.
Words in articles like "some", "may", "could", "potentially", are not data points and are certainly not details - they are sensationalism and fear mongering to drive clicks and promote confirmation bias. Another interesting point of that copy/paste article is they're referring to a potential flaw with cars made nearly a decade ago, but there are no referenced examples of people actually getting hurt or dying from the potential flaw. How many manufacturers like Toyota have had truly massive issues with faulty airbags and other material safety issues (seatbelt tensioner in the 200 for example which was/is a terribly mismanaged recall) since Tesla has been around? How many people died because of the Takata snafu or the Firestone debacle? Some will say you can't pin those failures on the OEMs, but those components are part of the supply chain controlled by the OEMs and thus they have significant liability. Telsa is the most vertically integrated car company today with far better control over their supply chain which has lead to far fewer material defects.
The data show Teslas are FAR less likely to catch fire than an ICE car, and it's actually not even a close comparison. I won't even link to specific stories or studies because that could show bias or cherry picking, but I implore anyone who is interested in the true fire risk of an EV to do their research. Depending on what sources you look at, you'll see there are between 160,000 and 180,000 vehicle fires every year in the US. It's hard to get precise numbers on the number of Tesla fires, but most sources will report somewhere between 40 and 60 fires total from all incidents. On a per mile basis, Tesla has a fire for every ~200 million miles traveled, but ICE cars on average have a fire every ~18 million miles. The reality here is that the risk of fire in a car is low regardless of what you drive, but if you want to look at it from a data driven approach, Tesla has a lower risk of fire.
The real issue is that if an F150 or an Accord gets in an accident and catches fire, most will never think twice about it, and they are not likely to click on a story with a headline like "F150 catches fire after accident on the 405". Swap in Tesla instead of the F150 though, and now you will get thousands of clicks, shares, and comments! Our news cycle today rewards sensationalism and polarization - not data. A great example is that right now we are in the worst of the covid pandemic according to the data, but the news cycle has moved on to different topics with a higher likelihood of getting clicks, shares, and comments. A story (especially one with a video full of colorful language) about a customer in a grocery store losing their mind about being told to wear a mask generates FAR higher "engagement" than a pedantic piece about immunology and science. That is similar to what happens with any story about Tesla or EVs in general - it's a new technology people are excited about and scared of, and journalists are skilled at playing into both sides.
Whoaaa...
Didn't mean to hit a nerve...
Just an article that in the news...
I do wonder what people think Tesla can do or produce that the other car companies, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Toyoda, Honda, etc. cannot.
I do wonder if their accountants are GAAP compliant sometimes too...
I don't do clicks or sensationalism either...
I do think the fact Tesla is the most valuable car brand on planet earth is sensational though...
Tesla stock is up 10% premarket this morning - helped along by an upgrade, furious call option buying over the last several sessions and the fact that with its main factory shut down for mostly all of Q2, the company has said this morning it has produced 82,272 vehicles and delivered 90,650 vehicles in the quarter.
The company beat its Q2 estimate of estimate 83,071 deliveries. It's production was down 20% Q/Q and Model S and X production, which are now being grouped together, made up just 6,326 of the company's deliveries.
Even with the Model 3 and Model Y together, deliveries couldn't eclipse that of just the Model 3 in Q4 2019.
Additionally, the Model S and X are both starting to look like an afterthought.
But everyone seems optimistic about Tesla - except for that pesky Gordon Johnson over at GLJ Research, who once again offered his clients a dose of much needed Tesla reality this morning with a report on Tesla's deliveries.
Johnson noted that total 2Q20 deliveries were down 4.8% even with the addition of Shanghai and the Model Y. He wrote that Fremont deliveries could be down as much as 37% year over year:
Didn't mean to hit a nerve...
Just an article that in the news...
I do wonder what people think Tesla can do or produce that the other car companies, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Toyoda, Honda, etc. cannot.
I do wonder if their accountants are GAAP compliant sometimes too...
I don't do clicks or sensationalism either...
I do think the fact Tesla is the most valuable car brand on planet earth is sensational though...
Tesla stock is up 10% premarket this morning - helped along by an upgrade, furious call option buying over the last several sessions and the fact that with its main factory shut down for mostly all of Q2, the company has said this morning it has produced 82,272 vehicles and delivered 90,650 vehicles in the quarter.
The company beat its Q2 estimate of estimate 83,071 deliveries. It's production was down 20% Q/Q and Model S and X production, which are now being grouped together, made up just 6,326 of the company's deliveries.
Even with the Model 3 and Model Y together, deliveries couldn't eclipse that of just the Model 3 in Q4 2019.
Additionally, the Model S and X are both starting to look like an afterthought.
But everyone seems optimistic about Tesla - except for that pesky Gordon Johnson over at GLJ Research, who once again offered his clients a dose of much needed Tesla reality this morning with a report on Tesla's deliveries.
Johnson noted that total 2Q20 deliveries were down 4.8% even with the addition of Shanghai and the Model Y. He wrote that Fremont deliveries could be down as much as 37% year over year:
Markuson
SILVER Star
Gee...has there been anything “unusual” going on in 2020 that might lead to a drop in deliveries for a ton of companies compared with a year ago? Hmmm... let me think.
Nah... 2020 has been normal as can be. lol
Gee...has there been anything “unusual” going on in 2020 that might lead to a drop in deliveries for a ton of companies compared with a year ago? Hmmm... let me think.
Nah... 2020 has been normal as can be. lol
In the World according Tesla- the real world doesn't matter.
Exactly, how do Tesla's numbers add up???
A company selling less than 500,000 cars a year...
The most valuable on planet earth...
Market Cap $200,000,000,000 / 500,000 units....
Makes perfect economic sense to someone...
Nah... 2020 has been normal as can be. lol
In the World according Tesla- the real world doesn't matter.
Exactly, how do Tesla's numbers add up???
A company selling less than 500,000 cars a year...
The most valuable on planet earth...
Market Cap $200,000,000,000 / 500,000 units....
Makes perfect economic sense to someone...
Markuson
SILVER Star
Gee...has there been anything “unusual” going on in 2020 that might lead to a drop in deliveries for a ton of companies compared with a year ago? Hmmm... let me think.
Nah... 2020 has been normal as can be. lol
In the World according Tesla- the real world doesn't matter.
Exactly, how do Tesla's numbers add up???
A company selling less than 500,000 cars a year...
The most valuable on planet earth...
Market Cap $200,000,000,000 / 500,000 units....
Makes perfect economic sense to someone...
Ya, honestly, I really just posted the market value news without meaning to imply any opinion on whether it was justified.
Was just surprised.
Big difference, of course, between automotive market share... and a company’s market value.
PS. Frankly though, Musk keeps charging ahead, accomplishing stuff naysayers poo-pooed. If you watch the space station docking...the guy’s company got it done in incredibly impressive fashion.
Pretty tough to poopoo, in my thinking.
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The market for this stock (not the market for the products they sell) has gone crazy...
Complete disconnect from reality...
They do NOTHING that Mercedes, BMW, VW, Toyoda, Honda, etc. could do if they were truly interested.
ASK a guy who owns a TESLA dealership if he would trade it for a Toyota USA Franchise... LOL...
Smart Cars were smart too...
Peace...
mcgaskins
SILVER Star
The market cap of a company is determined by the potential investors see in the future of a company, not the widgets they sell. Investors and the industry leaders have clearly turned a corner in the last 2 years and believe strongly the future is EVs, and Tesla has an astounding lead over traditional automakers. Some if not most will never be able to close that gap, and they would LOVE nothing more than to do what Tesla is doing. All traditional automakers have ignored the disruption threat of the EV industry, and now they are sorely behind. Developing an EV program is a monumental task that costs billions of dollars, and the supply chain, tooling, engineering, etc. for ICE cars has incredibly limited overlap with EVs. You simply cannot take an existing ICE company, change the tooling, call up a battery supplier, and start pumping out EVs. There is also a very real talent shortage for not just battery engineers but autonomous driving tech, UI/UX, thermal management, and many areas that are unique to the industry.
Regarding dealerships, I'm not sure if your post was sarcastic but Tesla does not do "dealerships" or the franchise model - they sell directly to the consumer which by itself is incredibly disruptive. They have "galleries" where you can go look at cars, do test drives, and ask questions, but you do not buy or even pick up a Tesla from these locations. The entire sales process is done online, with no negotiations or BS, and you take delivery at a distribution center depending on what state you live in. Some states do not allow the direct sales model (which is another ICE industry protectionist attempt), so deliveries are more creative in those parts of the country. But the bottom line is - no dealerships and no franchises.
Markuson,
Yeah, NO DOUBT watching those rocket boosters come back down and land is beyond belief...
Totally, cool science fiction come to life...
mcgaskins,
Yeah, we have a Tesla store nearby (Plenty of stock always available)... It is located on the same basic site as our Range Rover / Rolls Royce / Jaguar dealership that has been doing business on that site for decades. NOT sure what the business arrangement is... (maybe they did a sale/lease back with Tesla?)
My college age kid an engineer and his EE engineer friends have modified the new Acura RDX with Honda's driving assist hardware into a full self driver, so far so good, but I don't trust it... LOL... and they understand thermodynamics too, as well anyone can... LOL...
My kid also is also planning on buying a used Tesla (performance model?) to turn into a dragster/ race car at some point...
They love them (Tesla) as clearly you do too... Hopefully, for you, you bought a bunch of stock early, enjoy the ride...
Clearly, I have nothing against them, they are all over the place where I live and work (we even have free charging stations, if you go to our office - ahhh, the old world 100 days ago.)
Yup… and believe it or not, I do understand a little about market caps & stuff...
… and that helps pay the tuition... LOL !!!
Yeah, NO DOUBT watching those rocket boosters come back down and land is beyond belief...
Totally, cool science fiction come to life...
mcgaskins,
Yeah, we have a Tesla store nearby (Plenty of stock always available)... It is located on the same basic site as our Range Rover / Rolls Royce / Jaguar dealership that has been doing business on that site for decades. NOT sure what the business arrangement is... (maybe they did a sale/lease back with Tesla?)
My college age kid an engineer and his EE engineer friends have modified the new Acura RDX with Honda's driving assist hardware into a full self driver, so far so good, but I don't trust it... LOL... and they understand thermodynamics too, as well anyone can... LOL...
My kid also is also planning on buying a used Tesla (performance model?) to turn into a dragster/ race car at some point...
They love them (Tesla) as clearly you do too... Hopefully, for you, you bought a bunch of stock early, enjoy the ride...
Clearly, I have nothing against them, they are all over the place where I live and work (we even have free charging stations, if you go to our office - ahhh, the old world 100 days ago.)
Yup… and believe it or not, I do understand a little about market caps & stuff...
… and that helps pay the tuition... LOL !!!
LOL!!!
Sorry for another one BUT,
This guy knows he is untouchable-too many secrets-too many other agencies dependent on him...
Today: From the CEO of the most valuable car company on planet earth...
No sooner did we report that Tesla "beat" its delivery estimates on Thursday morning by producing 4.8% less cars than last year, even with the addition of Shanghai and the Model Y - and no sooner did another block of $1500 September 2020 calls totaling more than $5 million go off, helping ramp Tesla's stock higher - than outspoken CEO Elon Musk himself took to Twitter for a victory lap.
By which we mean spitting in the faces of both the Securities and Exchange Commission and short sellers, despite that Musk remains enjoined by a settlement with the SEC to pre-clear all tweets and has not answered critical questions about the company's accounts receivable raised by one of the world's most high profile investors and short sellers, David Einhorn.
In one Tweet, Musk may be asking the SEC to "suck Elon's cock" when he Tweeted out: "SEC, three letter acronym, middle world is Elon's".
And in a separate exchange that alludes to that phrase, Musk seems to admit that it is exactly what he meant by his acronym.
Sorry for another one BUT,
This guy knows he is untouchable-too many secrets-too many other agencies dependent on him...
Today: From the CEO of the most valuable car company on planet earth...
No sooner did we report that Tesla "beat" its delivery estimates on Thursday morning by producing 4.8% less cars than last year, even with the addition of Shanghai and the Model Y - and no sooner did another block of $1500 September 2020 calls totaling more than $5 million go off, helping ramp Tesla's stock higher - than outspoken CEO Elon Musk himself took to Twitter for a victory lap.
By which we mean spitting in the faces of both the Securities and Exchange Commission and short sellers, despite that Musk remains enjoined by a settlement with the SEC to pre-clear all tweets and has not answered critical questions about the company's accounts receivable raised by one of the world's most high profile investors and short sellers, David Einhorn.
In one Tweet, Musk may be asking the SEC to "suck Elon's cock" when he Tweeted out: "SEC, three letter acronym, middle world is Elon's".
And in a separate exchange that alludes to that phrase, Musk seems to admit that it is exactly what he meant by his acronym.
I think you might have to kick in some cash too
