O R I O N (2 Viewers)

[RWBeringer4x4]

This is a new install (last fall), using the AA recommended new bits and the salvaged parts from the old. I’m currently emailing back and forth with AA, so no resolution yet. I had read that the popping out issue was addressed as well. I’m not ruling out that I’m to blame for the problem and I’m overall very happy with the unit. Hopefully, I can pull it soon to find the cause.

Definitely let me know what you find out!

 

[reddingcruiser]

FWIW, with the exception of the FD clutch, nose cone, speedo housing, top cover and side cover, my Orion was built with all new parts. It was built before the shift detent upgrade and occasionally will pop out of LOW range. I've never had it pop out of high range.
Did you reuse the main shaft from another t-case?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

@archie73 any news on your Orion? There's a guy over in my local club forum who's running into popping-out-of-gear issues again. Starting to worry this might be a trend, and it's making me hesitant to pull the trigger...

 

[vfrer]

I also hope this isn't coming back. I bought a kit direct from AA in January and have been going back and forth with them because my clearances on the output shaft are not tight enough. I am using a brand new shaft and everything else that you can get new basically. I already sent them the output shaft once to modify and it was still out when I got it back. I ended up sending my entire output assembly to AA for them to set it up per spec but now it is stuck there due to COVID. AA has been great and very helpful but I really expected it to just go together.

Eric

 

[archie73]

@archie73 any news on your Orion? There's a guy over in my local club forum who's running into popping-out-of-gear issues again. Starting to worry this might be a trend, and it's making me hesitant to pull the trigger...

Sorry, I haven’t pulled the trigger in this yet, but soon I think.

 

[matzell]

Mine has been sitting in the box since January. I have not had a chance to build it. Hope mine goes together well. I will report back.

 

[matzell]

I put mine together yesterday after finally getting all the missing parts. Everything is tight. The high-neutral-low shift is tight even without the detent ball in place. I hope it loosens up some but I do not think it is going to pop out of gear. We will see. I hope to have it installed within the next week. Overall it looks like some good parts and Sumo gears.

No number stamped on the case so I do not know what Number it is but bought this year.

 

[matzell]

I bench tested my Orion again today with the shifter all attached. It still binds while shifting and did not want to shift to High and when it did it would pop after a few revolutions. After pulling the top cover off and on a few times I finally pulled the shifter assembly out. The shift collar moves freely over the high-neutral-low gears. The shift fork was still tight with the detent ball removed so I pulled the shift rail and shift fork out and moved them by themselves. They moved ok. I put the shift fork on the shift collar and it moved fine. As I slid the shift rail into the shift fork but not into the other side it did fine. It did start to bind once it went into the other side it bound up. I took it back out and bench tested again. The shift fork appears to bind on the shift rail when it slides over the detent slots when cocked at an angle. I filed down the leading edge of the shift fork untill it slid over it smooth, I did not have to take much off.

Once I felt ok with it I put it back together and tested it. It now goes all the way into high range and did not pop out on the bench test. Went back to low and then back to high. It is tighter with the detent ball back in but I am sure it will be fine. ( I hope).

I wanted to share this in case others are having the same problem. I really believe the shift rail is at a slight angle causing it to bind up and maybe that is why it was popping out of high and hard to shift, it really did not want to shift to high range. Sorry but I did not take any pics but hopefully I described it ok?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Would that be an issue with the bore through the case? ie: the holes in the front and back wall of the case bored slightly out of alignment?

 

[matzell]

Would that be an issue with the bore through the case? ie: the holes in the front and back wall of the case bored slightly out of alignment?

I think the bore is straight, but I think not 100% square to the outputs if that makes since? Without the shift fork it goes smooth, but only slightly binds with the shift fork in. The shaft really does not bind but the shift fork I believe is slightly out of line with the rail and the collar. I am talking .00xxxx amount, ever so slight. I plan to get it installed this afternoon and test drive it. I will report back.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I think the bore is straight, but I think not 100% square to the outputs if that makes since? Without the shift fork it goes smooth, but only slightly binds with the shift fork in. The shaft really does not bind but the shift fork I believe is slightly out of line with the rail and the collar. I am talking .00xxxx amount, ever so slight. I plan to get it installed this afternoon and test drive it. I will report back.

Understood - good luck!

 

[FF LC FREAK]

I bench tested my Orion again today with the shifter all attached. It still binds while shifting and did not want to shift to High and when it did it would pop after a few revolutions. After pulling the top cover off and on a few times I finally pulled the shifter assembly out. The shift collar moves freely over the high-neutral-low gears. The shift fork was still tight with the detent ball removed so I pulled the shift rail and shift fork out and moved them by themselves. They moved ok. I put the shift fork on the shift collar and it moved fine. As I slid the shift rail into the shift fork but not into the other side it did fine. It did start to bind once it went into the other side it bound up. I took it back out and bench tested again. The shift fork appears to bind on the shift rail when it slides over the detent slots when cocked at an angle. I filed down the leading edge of the shift fork untill it slid over it smooth, I did not have to take much off.

Once I felt ok with it I put it back together and tested it. It now goes all the way into high range and did not pop out on the bench test. Went back to low and then back to high. It is tighter with the detent ball back in but I am sure it will be fine. ( I hope).

I wanted to share this in case others are having the same problem. I really believe the shift rail is at a slight angle causing it to bind up and maybe that is why it was popping out of high and hard to shift, it really did not want to shift to high range. Sorry but I did not take any pics but hopefully I described it ok?

This is the exact issue I have. I just put together my Orion yesterday, and I'm finding it won't shift from high to low range. Well, at least not easily (as in hammering on it). Did you just file the area affected by the detents, or did you bevel the entire hole?

 

[matzell]

This is the exact issue I have. I just put together my Orion yesterday, and I'm finding it won't shift from high to low range. Well, at least not easily (as in hammering on it). Did you just file the area affected by the detents, or did you bevel the entire hole?

I beveled the hole in the general area around where it slides over the detent section.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

I just got off the phone with Advance Adapters. It sounds like my shift fork is bent. They are sending me another one. They say that with the heat treating on the fork, they can twist a little bit. That is apparently what is going on with mine. When I substituted my old fork on there (staying on the high gear only since since the fork isn't clearanced), everything went together nicely.

 

[archie73]

I installed an 4:1 this fall, fresh from AA. It’s been great until last week. To date it’s popped out gear three of the four times while compression breaking down the pass. I thought the new ones were supposed to be past this issue. I’ll call AA on Monday, but any thoughts until then?

No real update, except it hasn’t done it since. I never got around to pulling it- busy life/laziness/bought a boat... For awhile I had a strap holding the shifter in the high position, but with time it went away. It hasn’t slipped since on or off road. I probably just jinxed myself...

 

[squeezer]

H41/Orion


Wanting to get back on my 78 project.

Building a “Triple Threat” (Commute/Crawl/Cross-Country) 40. Stock 2F, 33“ tires. The axles are now 3.73’s with ARB’s. The 3.73’s will help with the cross country part but will hurt the crawl part. That’s where the Orion comes in... Is if worth the time and $$$ to instal an H41 at the same time? The rock work will be Moab and the Rubicon at the toughest. Will drive the truck there and back from Portland.

Thoughts ???

 

[65swb45]

H41/Orion


Wanting to get back on my 78 project.

Building a “Triple Threat” (Commute/Crawl/Cross-Country) 40. Stock 2F, 33“ tires. The axles are now 3.73’s with ARB’s. The 3.73’s will help with the cross country part but will hurt the crawl part. That’s where the Orion comes in... Is if worth the time and $$$ to instal an H41 at the same time? The rock work will be Moab and the Rubicon at the toughest. Will drive the truck there and back from Portland.

Thoughts ???

H42 for the win.

 

[squeezer]

H42 for the win.

Why?

Your voice is one I respect a TON around here!

My thoughts are the following.

The 3.73's and 33's give a decent cruise RPM and around town drive-ability, what it gives up is stop light takeoff... Figure to correct this with the H41.

The type of "Crawling" I anticipate would be fine with the H42/Orion...

If the H42/3.73's/33's are fine at stoplights I won't put the effort into the H41.

 

[Living in the Past]

H42 for the win.

I wish Toyota would have made a H56F that first thru fourth gears were same as the H42. Going with a H42 and Fairey Overdrive which will be close just no where near as strong as a H55F and split case. Even with an Orion (if it would work the Fairey) the Fairey is still a weak link. Would be curious on feedback on H55F, split case with 3:1 gears, 3.70:1 diffs and 33" tires? 3.70:1 diffs and 33" tires might make the 4.93:1 first gear more street friendly. Personally think over building a vehicle takes all the fun going off road. Would rather have a challenge that requires having to feather the gas pedal while left foot is on the brake with just the right pressure verses pushing some buttons on the dash. But I also enjoy driving a 40 with a three speed column shift so I'm probably a little off in the head.

 

[65swb45]

Why?

Your voice is one I respect a TON around here!

My thoughts are the following.

The 3.73's and 33's give a decent cruise RPM and around town drive-ability, what it gives up is stop light takeoff... Figure to correct this with the H41.

The type of "Crawling" I anticipate would be fine with the H42/Orion...

If the H42/3.73's/33's are fine at stoplights I won't put the effort into the H41.

To paraphrase LITP, you give up too much for that 1st gear.

And the first time you drive it, you’ll know it.