I'm not poo pooing the HID's - I wish the LC had them. The DDM stuff may be of good quality no dispute here. You are simply using a reflector housing that is not optimal for the bulb as you said "good enough". But for me Good enough doesn't cut it.
No HID for me - which replacement bulbs?
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RobRed said:
But it cuts it better than HIRs . If cutoff is the same and testing both yields similar results to oncoming motorists, what is left to dispute?
I would say, 'usable' light output. I switched to HIRs from a host of HID kits from DDMs to Retro-solutions to my very first HID kit in '06 that cost over $300 at the time. My last set being the DDMs, even though I haven't had a bulb or ballast go out, I'd have to say have been the worst in terms of output out of the 3-4 kits I've had in the 100. I switched to HIRs and it has been a pleasure to drive at night - 'specially in the rain - which HIDs in my experience totally suck at.
Now, I find myself on LJ's retro-fit list
and I know the HIDs will be at home in their projectors. Most of us have seen and know what a proper cut-off looks like, and with that IMO I'd say there isn't even a "cut-off" in reflectors, just a blurry-blur of a line. I'm no expert on this topic, but just sharing my own experiences to shed more *ahem* 'LIGHT'
I would agree with anthonycds' comments. The reflector properties in the LC cannot present the HiD in the proper aspect/orientation. You get very bright light. If that's good enough, then enjoy. But to the original poster he didn't want hid and thus hir was suggested.
My Allroad Quattro had some of the best performing hids around so I'm sorry if I use them as a benchmark for good quality headlights. I really wanted to put hid in the LC but unless one is prepared to spend on a lamp/projector retrofit to do it properly you're wasting lumens.
My Allroad Quattro had some of the best performing hids around so I'm sorry if I use them as a benchmark for good quality headlights. I really wanted to put hid in the LC but unless one is prepared to spend on a lamp/projector retrofit to do it properly you're wasting lumens.
RobRed said:
I wonder what I am doing wrong/differently. I ran the Philips and then the HID on the same night and without a doubt, I could see more and more clearly with the HIDs. I mean it wasn't even a contest. This was with 55W 5000k HIDs (Could that the difference)?
First Pfran your subjective response is right on. I'm certainly not telling you you are holding it wrong. But you could be holding it better. 
Subjectively looking at light output it reminds me of comparing speakers... to a human brain the perception of a better speaker is often which one is louder. I spent years working in the audio industry and invariably that was the perception in double blind testing. I think we are in the same arena with talking about these head lamps... one of the issues with lighting, anthonycds mentioned/alluded to this is the quality of the light. Brightness is not quality.
HID lamps have been designed to operate with specific characteristics including very controlled outputs (focus) and cutoffs, primary and secondary (scatter). These design elements reduce the drivers vision fatigue as well as improve off axis retina transition, that is moving your point of visual processing from the headlamp field of projection to surrounding areas. When using a lamp that is not in a properly designed housing/reflector you are actually reducing your visual capability. Sure it seems better because bright equals better in subjective viewing but you are are actually hurting your critical vision and your ability to distinguish objects depth of field (reduced contrast ratio). This is most pronounced in your peripheral and long distance vision (beyond the primary headlamp projection). These two effected areas are critical safety considerations, particularly at highway speeds of say 60mph (88ft /sec). In a properly designed HID lamp the transition between primary and secondary (scatter) illumination zones is much more controlled and the rods in your retina can make adjustments and distinctions more quickly.
In the end this is academic. I know you're enjoying your HIDs as well as many others and I'm not trying to talk you out of it. But lets be honest... unless you are doing a proper lamp/reflector conversion it's just a hack.
Subjectively looking at light output it reminds me of comparing speakers... to a human brain the perception of a better speaker is often which one is louder. I spent years working in the audio industry and invariably that was the perception in double blind testing. I think we are in the same arena with talking about these head lamps... one of the issues with lighting, anthonycds mentioned/alluded to this is the quality of the light. Brightness is not quality.
HID lamps have been designed to operate with specific characteristics including very controlled outputs (focus) and cutoffs, primary and secondary (scatter). These design elements reduce the drivers vision fatigue as well as improve off axis retina transition, that is moving your point of visual processing from the headlamp field of projection to surrounding areas. When using a lamp that is not in a properly designed housing/reflector you are actually reducing your visual capability. Sure it seems better because bright equals better in subjective viewing but you are are actually hurting your critical vision and your ability to distinguish objects depth of field (reduced contrast ratio). This is most pronounced in your peripheral and long distance vision (beyond the primary headlamp projection). These two effected areas are critical safety considerations, particularly at highway speeds of say 60mph (88ft /sec). In a properly designed HID lamp the transition between primary and secondary (scatter) illumination zones is much more controlled and the rods in your retina can make adjustments and distinctions more quickly.
In the end this is academic. I know you're enjoying your HIDs as well as many others and I'm not trying to talk you out of it. But lets be honest... unless you are doing a proper lamp/reflector conversion it's just a hack.
No need to write a book, we understand already.
RobRed - Very well spoken and you make some great points.
pfran42 - I love the HID "hack" too! I will be placing HIRs into my 80 though.
pfran42 - I love the HID "hack" too! I will be placing HIRs into my 80 though.
No use beating a dead horse...both sides have their points. HIRs are great bulbs. "I" just can see more of what is out there in the full field of view than when I tested with the HIRs. I am getting the HIR high beams though!
I'm loving the HIR2's... $50 + 15 minutes = great light that is very other-motorist friendly.
Let's eat that dead horse!!! 
i've bought a few things from this guy, all good.
How about this HID kit?
I'm not working again so i'll save my $$$ but once i get another contract i'll buy these.
Let me know what you think
peter
HB4-9006 - Xenon HID conversion kit.
HB3-9005 - Xenon HID conversion kit
EDIT: Search for the items above HB4.xxx HB3.xxxx my original links had the items, but the "auction" has ended, so no direct link.
EDIT2: the Hong Kong person i bought mine from is this one http://myworld.ebay.com.au/perfectwarehouseworld Yes it has .au but USA ppl can go here http://myworld.ebay.com/perfectwarehouseworld/
no i dont know the guy. But i have purchased and received 3 packages from him and have no issues with the goods, so i will recommend him.
How about this HID kit?
I'm not working again so i'll save my $$$ but once i get another contract i'll buy these.
Let me know what you think
peter
HB4-9006 - Xenon HID conversion kit.
HB3-9005 - Xenon HID conversion kit
EDIT: Search for the items above HB4.xxx HB3.xxxx my original links had the items, but the "auction" has ended, so no direct link.
EDIT2: the Hong Kong person i bought mine from is this one http://myworld.ebay.com.au/perfectwarehouseworld Yes it has .au but USA ppl can go here http://myworld.ebay.com/perfectwarehouseworld/
no i dont know the guy. But i have purchased and received 3 packages from him and have no issues with the goods, so i will recommend him.
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This folks is the correct way to do HID in your 100... retrofitting a projector into the housing:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/491657-how-hid-projector-retrofit-100-series.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/491657-how-hid-projector-retrofit-100-series.html
So... I ended up buying these from Amazon. They're labeled HIR1 9011 and HIR2 9012 on the website, however the packaging of the actual bulbs says nothing about HIR whatsoever. Did I get the right bulb? The comments mention the HIR brightness. But again, the packaging in bold letters says "Standard" on the front and "Original Equipment Quality" on the back.
A google search leads me to believe that the 9011/9012 are only available as HIR bulbs regardless of the misleading packaging, correct? Want to make sure before I either open the package or send back.
Amazon.com: Philips HIR1 9011 Standard Headlight Bulb, Pack of 1: Automotive
I was under the impression that the "real" HIRs had a fatter bulb with a reflective coating, hence the "halogen infared reflector" designation. If it's a regular shaped bulb, I don't think it's the real deal man. I could be wrong though.
From what I've read, the Toshibas are 'bulbous' in shape. The Phillips look like a conventional 9005/9006 but behave like an HIR. After closer inspection, the bulbs are stamped HIR1 and HIR2 on their base even though the packaging doesn't show this. I've seen a number of posts (different vehicles) that say these bulbs are an improvement over stock. The debate seems to be whether they're true HIR or that they use some other technology to achieve similar lumens/watt allowing DOT to classify them in the HIR category.
Anthony.L
Looking for the end of the road...
I've got a buddy who just bought of pair of those exact same bulbs from Amazon and has VERY happy with the results in his 80 LC. So they are the real deal.
You can't go wrong ordering them from here: HIR Headlights 9011 9012 bulbs
Well..........except they appear to be much less expensive here:
Amazon.com: Philips HIR2 9012 Standard Halogen Headlight Bulb, Pack of 1: Automotive
First Pfran your subjective response is right on. I'm certainly not telling you you are holding it wrong. But you could be holding it better.
Subjectively looking at light output it reminds me of comparing speakers... to a human brain the perception of a better speaker is often which one is louder. I spent years working in the audio industry and invariably that was the perception in double blind testing. I think we are in the same arena with talking about these head lamps... one of the issues with lighting, anthonycds mentioned/alluded to this is the quality of the light. Brightness is not quality.
HID lamps have been designed to operate with specific characteristics including very controlled outputs (focus) and cutoffs, primary and secondary (scatter). These design elements reduce the drivers vision fatigue as well as improve off axis retina transition, that is moving your point of visual processing from the headlamp field of projection to surrounding areas. When using a lamp that is not in a properly designed housing/reflector you are actually reducing your visual capability. Sure it seems better because bright equals better in subjective viewing but you are are actually hurting your critical vision and your ability to distinguish objects depth of field (reduced contrast ratio). This is most pronounced in your peripheral and long distance vision (beyond the primary headlamp projection). These two effected areas are critical safety considerations, particularly at highway speeds of say 60mph (88ft /sec). In a properly designed HID lamp the transition between primary and secondary (scatter) illumination zones is much more controlled and the rods in your retina can make adjustments and distinctions more quickly.
In the end this is academic. I know you're enjoying your HIDs as well as many others and I'm not trying to talk you out of it. But lets be honest... unless you are doing a proper lamp/reflector conversion it's just a hack.
Well said sir.
