Builds My LC 80 thread. (3 Viewers)

[Dave 2000]

Looks great!

Thanks, I had better throw in a couple of more

I am cr*p at taking pictures and it is difficult to grasp how steep that is but hey you get the idea.


regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Temperature info collated thus far for my electric fan project. I was looking for the typical water/head temperature at the top of the engine so I could choose the correct fan switches to go in the bottom hose. This is from a variety of forums using a variety of methods which include, laser and aftermarket gauges, (and I thank those contributors for their efforts) I have rounded up the numbers to as near as dammit.

It seems that the typical water temperature at the head water exit is in the range of 190 - 210 F (88 - 99 C) but, there are quite a few mentions that under load towing uphill for example, that temps as high as 227 F (108 C) have been recorded.

I have also been lucky enough to have a post (thank you) giving me outlet AND inlet temperatures of 190 and 180 (88 - 82 C) respectively, so it is fairly safe to assume the thermostat is maintaining quite a close control over engine temps.

With the three switches going in the lower hose, I have at the moment chosen:

Low speed fan to come on at 187 F (86 C)
High speed fan to come on at 194 F (90 C)
Dash warning light/buzzer come on at 212 F (100 C)

Now these are 'guesstimates' at the moment so I am open to thoughts/opinions, if anything the fan temps may even be a little conservative, but all is open to change as the switches are quite cheap. So far I have collated a list of available switches (16mm x 1.5) and they range from an 'ON' temp of 185 F (85 C) thru to 216 F (102 C) so plenty of choices to get it right.

If anything jumps out at you please feel free to comment.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Quick update, yesterday the fan control relays arrived complete with holders and pre-wired, also in the box was the metal tube to go in the lower radiator hose, this has three bosses welded in with 16mm x 1.5 threads. I chose this size of temperature switch for a couple of reasons, the first being the variety of temperature ranges available in this size, I should not have trouble finding switches perfect for my particular requirements, and second having the three switches in the one tube meant having the larger size would have made it quite crowded.



Many will know I am not a lover of electronics in critical areas and the cooling system is no different. There are PWM fan controllers and they seem to work fine........when they are working. The heavy amperage this fan requires means that decent relays and simple fan switches is IMO the way to go. I have it wired so that if one of the fan switches fails then the other switch will come on so some redundancy, of course with no complicated electronics I could simply pull the wire from the fan switch and earth it, the relays are not only over specced they are also identical, in the event that a relay fails they are swappable.

The electric versus mechanical fan debate will rage on forever......well until they no longer use mechanical fans
witness Mercedes 4 x4 with V8's using electric fans for example. Whether this system will work for my 80 I do not know but, I think for my particular use it hopefully should work fine. At this time of the year it is not particularly warm perhaps a max of 24 degrees C so around 75 degrees F. Temps have been below this since the car went back on the road before Christmas, I have neither a shroud or mechanical fan installed, the electric fan in there at the moment is wired with a simple switch/relay to the slow speed, it has not been needed once thus far, temps have been known to hit 40 degrees C here but that is a very rare event, I am going to order the switches this week now that everything else is here I reckon on having the system in within a couple of weeks. I will update as and when the install is complete.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

See there I go talking about electronics! The ammeter that monitors the solar panel current into my battery system has gone all screwy, fortunately it is not a critical part but worked perfect for a year and then just quits!

I bought it ages ago and to save altering my dashboard and wiring I want to find the same one, off to eblag

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Today I made some progress with the fan wiring install, relays were attached to the air filter drum, 50 amp fuse and holder on the side of the R/H battery box. Bound all the wiring and made it all look 'proper', main power supply from aux battery, main earth to bodywork under the accessory take off point. That is a great little OE box IMO, I have run the minor earths and accessory power lead to it, the fan at the moment is now wired so it can run when the ignition is in the ACC position, I may yet move it to a permanent supply, if the AC trinary switch acts how I expect (hope) it will then there may be the ability to shut the engine off and there will be a short period of 'after run' if it has been hot enough to have the AC on. If the trinary switch does not work I have left the cable in preparation to run off the AC compressor which seems to be the 'norm' anyway but, I did not want the fan on when going down the motorway, my old gearbox had the facility to disable the fan when 5th was selected, the recent replacement does not, something to think about there if the trinary idea does not work...fingers crossed.

Jury is still out on whether the relay supply gets moved to a permanent live, my aux battery has a dual sense cut out/cut in facility, so I am not too concerned if a fault develops and the fan stays on, the cut out will hopefully prevent me being stranded. I will order the three switches tomorrow, I have added some extra wiring so the dashboard which will power and display a green LED when the fan is on slow, amber when on fast, and just in case a flashing red if the temp does not come down despite the fan being on fast. I already have a warning buzzer and red flashing LED on my dashboard if the oil pressure fails whilst driving, the buzzer will be tied into the 'overheating' LED. As I like the interior of the car to have the gadgets but not look as if a handful of lights and switches have been dipped in glue and thrown in from the open tailgate, I am fitting the LED's in the strip normally occupied by the gear selector indicators used by automatic vehicles........oh no, another reason to have a manual transmission

The ability to switch off the fan for wading purposes is great, as is the ability to manually override the switches and bring the fan on earlier but, I am not sure if I am going to fit that facility. I rarely have to wade now I no longer 'rambla race', in fact the last time I encountered deep water was around three years ago and if I wanted to stop the fan I could simply pull the fuse. If I need to bring the fan on earlier then I have defeated the object of spending a lot of time collating data to aid in choosing the three switches with different temperatures. Having said that I have disconnected the rear heater now and the now unused OE switch has the OFF/SLOW/FAST facility, there is of course the chance that it will be switched OFF accidently so..........hmmm, I do have another idea though so I will have to kick it around for a day or two.

While in there I tidied up the wiring to the batteries but need to pull the radiator and route the wires more permanently under the rad, re the ammeter mentioned in the previous post I also managed to find the seller who is till on eBay (good sign) so that has been ordered and paid for as have the various LED's

EDIT: For the record I topped off the CV's with Moly grease @235, 780 miles.

That's it for now and thanks for keeping an eye on my thread along with the recent 'likes'

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

A quick update as to the electric cooling fan install progress.

The 'switch tube' has been assembled with the fan and warning switches. The tube has an earth tag welded on, this will be connected to the body earth in the normal way. The overheat switch has two cables these will be fed direct to the dashboard, I am trying to cover my ar*e from overheating damage from a simple earth cable failure, hence the independent earth to the warning system. The temp switches (3) are all new from Facet, a variety of temperatures control the first/second speed and the 'potential' for overheating warning. The temp choices are all 'suck it and see' at the moment, so will alter if need be later, this is a little more complicated than normal as the fan switches are in the bottom hose and not the normal top.



The relays are mounted as can be seen on the side of the air filter container, the relay holders clip together but were too rigid to wrap and mount neatly so I split them in two. Power cable/earth runs are kept as short as humanly possibly to prevent any loss of voltage, the fan motor should see full battery potential.



Fan clearance is good (around 1 inch?) but it could be improved by cutting down the water pump studs. I want to keep the pump OE in case this fan system does not work and have to put my hands up and say it was a complete waste of time and money and then need to reinstall the OE fan, I just need to zip tie the wires to the shroud. Fuse is 50 amp in a waterproof holder, it is just out of shot to the left of the OE fusible links, I do have reservations about the fuse holder but time will tell.




I need to find the time to pull the radiator and remove/reinstall the fan/shroud with a gasket between the hard plastic radiator and radiator fins, then refit along with the switch tube. I will be installing a low level warning system in the top hose when the right size becomes available. At the moment the power cable to control the second fan speed for the A/C will be connected to the compressor but, as per an ex member of mud (Scott), I will be trying his idea to wire via the A/C trinary switch. Readers may recall I wanted to use the spare 5th gear switch on the gearbox to disable the fan when in top gear? The fan at speed would have been surplus to requirement, to be in 5th would have meant I would be doing a minimum of 45/50 MPH? The change of gearbox means I have lost that facility, I am hoping the trinary switch will only bring the fan in if the A/C needs it and not be on all the time. If it does not work then a re think will be on the cards.

That's it for now,

regards

Dave.

 

[Dave 2000]

A quick update on the fan switch temperatures. For those that do not know, you have to be very careful when you choose the switches and when looking through the catalogues. There are switches that are almost identical to each other, absolutely identical temperature ranges, identical electrical plug, identical thread size/type but, there are sometimes options of 'NC' or 'NO', i.e. the contacts are normally open or normally closed. In the catalogue the part numbers are often separated by just one number.

So if you are not careful you could spend a lot of time getting your wiring arranged around one type of switch, the 'mind set' for me is 'NO', that is there is no current flow until the switch reaches 'X' temperature and then the contacts close and the fan switches on. You could spend time and money getting everything wired and looking right only to find you have to alter the wiring or purchase a different switch, if you find this out on the Sunday that you was going to connect everything up and get the job finished it could be very annoying at best.

I have also revised my switch temperature list and is as follows:

First speed: 85 on - 80 off
Second speed: 92 on - 87 off
Overheat warn: 95 on - 85 off

End of this week will see the system connected up 'proper' for the first time.

EDIT: Due to work over the weekend I should have this up and running tomorrow (Tuesday), I will also be fitting the parking lights that 'Ianb' sent over. Hopefully the 'newness' of the lamps will have dulled down a little and not attract too much attention from the over zealous inspectors over here.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Another little parcel arrived today, this has the prewired LED's for the fan status to be displayed. On the automatic version of the 80 the space between the rev counter and speedo is used to indicate the gear selected, this space still exists on the manual version. I am unsure if the black plastic has the gear range etched in or not. But the space is there all the same so, I have decided to fit 3 LED's, the first will be a Green to indicate fan is on slow, if the fan moves to the second speed then there will be an amber (this mimics the 80's normal switch mode indication for fan/heated seats), if the engine temperature continues to rise then there is a LARGE flashing red LED, this will flash in conjunction with a buzzer.

There should be a switch to disable the fan during water crossing but, the lack of that need may mean it does not get fitted. If it does then engagement of the switch will cause the RED LED to flash but no buzzer, a simple warning that the fan automatic operation had been overridden.

That's the plan but we all know what happens we make plans right?

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Well I am pretty p*ssed off! I had put off this job long enough and decided to take a day off from work ( I had done 10 days straight I had been that busy), and went at it with serious commitment. After draining the coolant (and throwing it away), I removed the radiator and fan and made up some better more permanent mounts. Put a gasket along the edges to ensure minimum loss of suction (must be a Dyson ) I made sure the OE fan shroud mounts were used, this is so the normal shroud can go back if need be. I then made up the mounts from perforated strip, this is not the radio strip but a heavy version, needs a vice and hammer to bend! Took some time putting it all back looked good, and then to the switches in the metal tubing. Each switch (3) was supplied with a rubber ring so no gaskets/sealant needed. New hoses/clips and filled with fresh coolant, crimped and soldered the remaining connections. all looked the mutts nuts, Just need to see if the fans come on at the right temperature, started the motor and after about 10 minutes I am loosing coolant from one of the switches, so I shut the motor down, and as the entire tube was wet I decided to take them all out one at a time and reseal using PTFE tape. So waited for it to cool down and then took the switches out, of course I am trying my best to contain and collect 10+ litres of new coolant!

Taped up each switch and refitted them and then refilled the rad, started up and sure enough within 10 minutes of the engine getting hot the coolant started leaking again, and it was leaking at the same rate, the tape had not altered anything. After laying under the car with a ton of kitchen paper I eventually found the leak, the earth tag had not been brazed correctly

The air was blue, I had been bouncing of the walls thinking it was a switch seal problem but no some tosser had not done his job properly!

So drained out the coolant AGAIN and refitted the old hose and refilled AGAIN!!

I am about to contact the supplier, I am particularly annoyed as I could have had this made locally but, as the supplier was in the US and IIRC I have never had poor workmanship from there, I purchased two different products from this company at the same time, both have had faults, each fault could have resulted in a seriously overheated motor. I am going to email them now, the first fault was poor workmanship but it was something I could rectify myself within ten minutes, this problem will not be so simple, two products two failures.

I will post up some pictures of the fan mounts later.

EDIT: Added fan picture, the four mounts are pointed out in Red, all use the OE shroud fitting position, also note fan covers the best part of 75% of the radiator core.

EDIT 2: The earth tag apparently is not welded all the way around, I have to assume the welding penetrated the tube and compromised it, just waiting to see what is going to happen when the reply comes back.



regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

So to the email and reply. I emailed the supplier and had a good whinge, to be fair he has replied quickly and arranged for a replacement, I will check back as and when it arrives.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Spare five minutes today, fitted the Canadian spec park/marker lights, thanks IanB.



In the underground car park so best mobile phone pic I can muster since some b*astard stole my camera!/passport/stuff!

Unsure if the inspection guys will notice, let you know in December

Yep about five cars in an 80 space park, the apartments were too pricey at the beginning of the recession, loads of play space

regards

Dave

 

[IanB]

Those corner lights look good on your truck, glad they made it to you OK!

 

[NLXTACY]

Sheesh, sucks there are always issues!

 

[Dave 2000]

Thanks guys, I will get the truck out from the underground park and take her for a run to visit a mate, take another pic then, and yes there is always something (or someone) to rock your boat!

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Whilst waiting for the new switch tube to arrive I decided to 'Araldite Rapid' the hole from inside the tube. You could feel the small hole where the earth tag was welded on. The supplier was as good as gold and sent a new one within 24 hours, just checked tracking and it is well on it's way, so I have to be happy with that. So with the hole blocked I fitted the tube I refilled the rad and bled out the air, all I need now is the engine to get hot enough to bring the switches into action. Despite being 25+ it would not get hot enough, I took the car for a blast around the block and with the bonnet shut and the car in the sun after about 20 minutes the slow speed fan came on. The dashboard temperature gauge showed midway between cold and hot, the fan run for 30 seconds (yeh how anal am I for timing it?), this brought the temp down to just about where it sits during normal driving. I let this repeat three times, and give or take a few seconds it was fan on 30 seconds and then off for 12 minutes and then repeat. The times it took for the engine to heat up enough to bring the fan on did reduce by about two minutes from the first to the third.

Whilst leaving the engine running I disabled the slow speed and waited for the second speed to kick in, this took around 5 minutes after the expected slow speed to come on and the fan run for just 13 seconds! I quickly reconnected the slow speed sensor and checked the temp gauge, it showed about a third from the top, not very scientific but the thermal sensor is at the other garage. Then it switched down to the slow speed and that carried on for around 40 seconds. I guess the extra time came from the additional heat soak? I did not continue to the overheat warning as I had other stuff to get on with (drive up the beach through the river beds up to the mountains), so far so good. I watched the gauge like a hawk for the next couple of hours driving, in particular when in low range i.e. high revs low road speed, and stopped a couple of times to check for leaks and all good for the moment.

Keeping in mind the cooling system of the 80 is designed to cope with a gross vehicle weight around 7 tons stock, it is not surprising the cooling system has so much reserve.

I noted that leaving the bonnet up would allow enough heat to escape that the fan never came on at all, there was a slight breeze today and that no doubt helped. Keeping in mind I had been running around with NO fan and even after fitting the electric never actually needed it and also this mod (at the moment) suits my particular driving environment, rarely in traffic, steady 90 KPH on the coast roads between towns etc. It's worth will be during the mountain climbs/excursions like we were on today where it performed thus far perfectly, will it work in the 40 degree C summer with the AC on, who knows?

Before going skywards I grabbed the promised pictures of the park lamps fitted whilst heading across the road to the beach, next job will be to pull the dash and fit the fan status indicators.



regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update on fan install.

All seems ok at the moment, the new switch tube has arrived but I have not been to town to pick it up yet. The supplier pulled out all the stops to keep me happy and posted it very quickly so no complaints there. Probably because I am looking for problems I have noticed the gauge is more 'active' than I have previously noted. This could be the hotter weather we are presently experiencing? I was climbing a steep hill during the weekend and the temperature went up to just under the middle of the gauge, I think is very close to when the fan comes on but of course could not hear it and have at the present no visual indication it is coming on, I must fit the fan 'status' lights in the dashboard asap. I am happy thus far to have the fan come on at that point but found the following is worthy of note.

Whilst I have no worries about the engine temperature I am thinking about other components under the bonnet. At the moment the outside temps having been sitting around 25 -29 degrees C (77 - 84 F), just pootling around town the fan was not on but the temps were often 'near' to it being on. The problem using switches is if you want to run a temp of say 80*C the fan will have to come on at least 5 degrees more than this, perhaps even a little higher as the 'off' temp may be lower than normal running temp. Noting the 'near' on temps and this along with waiting for the auto garage door, and then manoeuvring into the parking slot the fan must be close to coming on but then you switch off and you get the heat soak. If the switch/s were in the top hose them some of that heat may trigger the cooling fan and get rid of the heat soak, the switches are in the lower hose so they are not picking up the heat. It was only after opening the bonnet soon after parking that I realised how hot the motor was. Obviously well within working limits but, if the viscous fan had been throwing a little air under there whilst idling/parking then the heat soak would have been less and other components would have been heated less.

I still have some options and really need to get the dashboard indicators installed, the plan is to lower the switch temperatures until I have a setup that does not trigger under normal running apart from the aforementioned steep hill.

The first thing I will try is after getting the AC re-gassed, I may get some 'after run' when the AC trinary switch is connected up.

The next would be to get a lower temp setting switch for the slow speed, this will bring the fan on at a lower temp but the drop once on the move may not be low enough to switch it off.

I could wire in a delay that is triggered by switching off the motor, this of course would activate the fan regardless of outside temperature for a set time, even in the middle of winter!

For the record:

Oil and filter changed today @ 236,865 so about 3,600 on the last oil, I was going to do the change back in January but did not realise how few miles I would do now the LC is a second car.

Usual Bosch oil filter P2062, FWIW I get these trade and buy boxes of six at a time, as I tend to change my oil 2/3 times per year or more if I do the miles, then it is more economical than the OE offering.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Great result today, had been fiddling trying to get a solar panel fitted under a modified third party roof rack design for generic fitment, not quite going how I had wanted it to, put it to one side and then I bumped into someone I had not seen for a few months. A friend who was serious expedition 80 owner sadly died a few years back and I met his widow this afternoon. My friend had left behind some odds and ends from his camping days, but like all good friends I would not dream of being the vulture circling overhead, so had said nothing.

His widow has started selling his gear off and I made a sensible and non insulting offer for the roof rack. She agreed today so I am happy and so is she that it will be put to good use. I cannot remember the company brand but apparently well respected, just got to wait until end of May to pick it up, thinking of you 'Whim'!!

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update.

Unusual thing happened a couple of times over the last few days.

Last week I had to go to the UK which meant I could give the LC a run, I was travelling at a steady 75 MPH and all was well with the temperature. As the road is always empty I decided to put my foot down a bit and took her up to (allegedly ) 120 MPH and held her there for about five minutes? I noticed the temp gauge had risen a little, easing back to 85 the gauge came back down but still not to where it was previously, dropped back to my original 75 and the gauge dropped back to where it normally sits. So back up to about 90 and sure enough the gauge started to climb again, not flying up but creeping very slowly, the faster I went the higher the gauge went but never actually reached mid way. I would have thought the higher airflow would have cooled the engine off more, car was not loaded apart from hand luggage and a full fuel tank.

I have never witnessed this before and it may have always happened but more serious gauge watching has shown it up, also as my gauge is no longer 'dumb' it is more active. A point here is, if everything is working fine then the original fan clutch must have been engaging during high speed runs right? The OE cowl covered the whole radiator whereas the fan (with own cowl) I have fitted does not so air should flow freely?

Whilst I doubt it makes much difference I have removed the metal plate from just in front of the steering damper recently, if the plate had been mounted further forward it may have added to the air pressure on the front of the radiator? There is also scope here to add a plate so that may be an option.

Also fitted this week new tailgate struts,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171631866698?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I made an offer of £17.00 ($26.00) and it was accepted, an extra £5.00 ($7.67) for shipping, turned up mega rapid, put them side by side the OE parts and they were identical in pretty much every way, even down to the metal brackets that take the two bolts each end, fitted perfect and all good.

I also won a second hand but apparently good 'Flexitank' water bladder for the inner rear quarter of the LC, depending where you are getting the specs it holds between 25 and 30 litres (6.6 - 7.9) US gallons?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151654340843?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

So that is on it's way.

That all for now,

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Well Houston we have a problem. Today I took the 80 out for a drive inland, just myself and a couple of friends no other weight on board. Getting inland from the coast where I live involves a run up my favourite hill which I did at around 70 MPH, initially no temp gauge movement and then at around 150-200 metres it started to climb, and slow but sure by the time I had reached the 500 metre mark the gauge was showing higher than I have ever seen it, definitely very near the 3/4 mark. I would have guessed the electric fan would have been on but still no indicator lights so cannot confirm that. I was waiting for some dash parts from the UK but the supplier has been busy and I did not want to take the dash out twice to fit the fan status lights, well tough I will have to go ahead and do it as a means to help find out just what is going on.

The last few days we have had some sudden crazy outside temps and this morning during the hill climb it was around 28c (83.4 F), this afternoon it hit 35c (95f) so summer is well on it's way. But then that does not explain the higher than average temperatures (see previous post) shown on the way back from the airport last week. So back to today, the moment I reached the brow of the hill and started going back down the temperature was where it normally is in under a mile. So what is going on with my temps? There is no apparent water loss, right at the top of the filler neck and expansion tank between the marks, the coolant was new at the last fitment of the switch tube so the mix could be different but TBH I am grasping at straws there IME.

The thermostat was new about three years ago...ish, it was IIRC an OE unit and up until now I have had no reason to doubt it's function, of course it will not be dismissed. Something that did bother me was the intrusion of the switches in the metal tube fitted in the lower hose, they are an obvious obstruction to water flow but I gauged the amount of space around them, should equate to more than that of a fully open thermostat. There is a possibility they are causing some form of turbulence.



Without doubt they do obstruct the flow to some degree (no pun intended) but if it is enough to cause this problem I am unsure? To get a better idea of the obstruction which is not clear in the pic, I suggest you cut and paste and then zoom in and you can see there really is a lot of space, the appearance that two switches are touching is an optical illusion. Why have I not seen these temps changes before, is it because the flow was sufficient when the temps were cooler? When I fitted the switch tube I installed it with a new rubber lower hose which was cut, I plan to pull the switch tube and hose and replace with the old stock one which I kept as a spare. I will need to do this soon and will try for Tuesday am (30c expected in the pm) then if the temps go up I will be prepared to take her for a run and see if I can duplicate the running temps.

I am open to any thoughts on this,

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update. Removed the switch tube and replaced with standard hose, refilled the rad and hit the aforementioned 'test' hill and the same result, even though today is a little cooler the gauge definitely more active than usual. After some testing at allegedly illegal speeds I stopped in the garage and put some diesel in. After picking up my account ticket I opened the bonnet and gave the hoses a squeeze and found no excessive pressure, opened the filler cap and level was correct. Started the engine to head off to the spares shop, I noticed straight away the gauge was slightly higher than norm within seconds, knowing full well there was no indication the engine was that hot when I opened the cap? I popped in the local spares shop and have ordered a new thermostat but, if that had been playing up i.e. not opening correctly then the engine would have been very hot, the ability to open the radiator cap three or four minutes after flying up and down the motorway would indicate that this is not the case. So, am I being led up the path by a faulty temperature sender or, the fact that ambient temps have climbed by nearly ten degrees in two weeks, or...............?

Fit the stat when it arrives, I will refit the switch tube as well as that theory has been thrown out of the window, get back to you.

Regards

Dave

EDIT: I have ordered a new temperature gauge sender as well but will fit them at different times to ensure continuity of the test results.