Builds My LC 80 thread. (5 Viewers)

[Dave 2000]

Hi Kev, good to hear your getting on with the 80. I have run some tests of return temps but to be honest they are pretty useless in the grand scheme of things unless you have a problem. The reason I say that is that the thermostat does not open until around 76 C (168.8 F). if you had water flowing in at 40/45 C (113 F) it would simply close. Apart from the small vent the water pretty much comes to a halt in the radiator when the stat is shut so intake temps would be useless except at idle and even then after quite awhile and would assume you have a problem.

The thermostat on these engines being in the bottom hose means it is quite active, as opposed to the top housing/hose fitment.

I was going to update the thread with progress after next weeks parts delivery but as replying to your post I will throw this in while I am here.

I eventually found a thermo switch that comes in at 80 C (176 F), it comes with a spade fitment to suit my present wiring and has the 16mm x 1.5 pitch thread. I ordered two and will test both prior to fitting, I also expect some more LED's to arrive after I messed up the others with my super glue accident.

For now I am knackered, beach party Friday night, late night yesterday at the latest new Indian restaurant, and today running friends around who were attending a charity bash, which was also on the beach, this afternoon in 35 C (95 F) one of my passengers asked me to reduce the cooling of the AC as he was getting TOO COLD!!

There were at the time seven people in the car and all windows/roof were closed, not too shabby huh?

Keep in touch Kev,

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

The two '80 c' fan switches arrived and I was very disappointed to find that they were in fact marked 85 C. I had spent many hours tracking these particular 80 degree switches down, and in fact found them at an online motorbike store. The seller did apologise and pointed out he had not realised until I emailed him. He had been sent the wrong ones by his supplier. Sounds like a great story but, he followed up with please return them and I will give a full refund plus any carriage costs you incur, can't say fairer than that.

As I already know the 85 C version I had in there was fairly accurate and coming on at 87 degrees I had a hunch and decided to test the two 85's I had. I am glad that I did, one comes on at 80 C (176 F) and goes off at 73 C (163.4 F), the other on at 82 C (179.6 F) and off at 74 C (165.2 F). So the switches can be used for the moment, you may recall I repaired the first leaking switch tube? The new replacement will be installed next week, I will use the latest and lowest temp switch, the one in the present lower setting (87 C) will be moved to second place, the over heat switch can stay where it is for the moment. I will then put the remaining switches into the repaired tube and throw it in the trail spares box.

My only concern with the new switches is the hysteresis difference, this may cause the fan to stay on perhaps after sitting in traffic, and then when on the move the temperature drop may not be enough to switch the fan off. Having said that whenever there is traffic it normally means there is a holiday which means hot weather. With the A/C on the second speed comes in and out in response to the A/C condenser pressure so the cooling system never gets anywhere near hot. Of course I am trying to cover all the bases with this mod, so it is inevitable that I would need to do as much experimenting as possible.

To give my tests at least the very minimum of credibility I try not to use phrases like it seemed colder or hotter, or it looked like such an such, so I never trust one measuring instrument and try for two or even three if it is convenient and logical to do so.

Below is the comparison of my two methods of water temperature testing, one a typical wine thermometer and the other a digital food temperature tester to ensure food is safe to eat. Both inserted in moving water and slowly brought to the test temperature of 85, by then both switches were closed, I use a typical digital multi meter to look for changes in the switch action.

The phone flash makes the wine thermometer look as if the colour is breaking up, it is just reflection, I think it is fair to say these readings can be relied on for switch and thermostat testing.

Get back to you when I have installed the lower temperature switch and tube early next week.

regards

Dave

EDIT: Meant to add I have fitted the new sensor for the temperature gauge, a bit early to tell but the needle is not moving around as much as it was and appears to be reading a little lower. I will know more when I use the car next week.

EDIT 2: Saves bumping it to the top of the thread list again for such a small update.

Today by chance I got to drive the car in 36 C (96.8 F) I can confirm thus far the temperature indication is definitely lower, remember not the 'engine' is running cooler but the 'indication' for the actual engine temperature is lower. Along with the unexpected chance to drive the car today, came the chance tomorrow to fit the replacement switch tube along with the new lower temperature switches. I am hoping to get this and leak testing all done by the coming week, our area is on Red alert for high temperatures of 38 C (100.4)! This is in June, it is commonplace to have July and August temperatures at least 8 -10 degrees higher than June, could be looking at around 48 C (118.4 F)

 

[Dave 2000]

To save the 'bump' there were a couple of edits to my last post, so if you are following closely pop back one post to catch up.

OK to today, in this area of Spain we are now officially on 'Red Alert', temperatures have hit 38 C (100.4 F)!!

So perfect for testing the new lower temperature switch right?

In with the new switch tube and the first switch is now 80 C, the next switch is 87 C. Done the job early as it will be waaaay too hot. Refilled, bled and went for a run early this morning, no leaks and all looks good, hide back inside as temps are climbing.

Went out this afternoon and sure enough 35 C is what I got hit with by the coast, inland is always going to be hotter. So off to the 'test hill', followers know this is a 550 metre climb from sea level, the first 100 metres rises slowly over a distance of around 4 miles, then a slight drop of 50 metres or so and then up up and away the 500 metres within around 3 miles, speed held at 100 KPH (62.13 MPH), the only reason for that odd mileage is that is the maximum speed on that hill and the police were out in force today, so what happened?

A/C on, blower on full or HI, air from outside, I never bother to test with recirculate as it is pretty pointless.

By the time I had reached the first 100 metres climb the slow speed fan was on i.e. a lower hose temperature of 80 C (176 F), by the time I had reached around 500 metres the second speed was on so that is around 87 C 188.6 F), the gauge indicated 3/4 of the way up.

EDIT: A temperature gauge showing 3/4 could be a little unnerving to the typical driver in particular if not loaded up and no trailer but remember, I KNOW FOR A FACT that the second speed switch has tested at 87 C, and the switch is literally a few inches away from the thermostat in the coolant lower entry to the engine, and the 87 C is still below the maximum opening point of the thermostat of 90 C (194.0 F), I tested this and it did indeed show fully open at the rated temperature, so 'I' know it is OK. Given the gauges high reading and that the thermostat still has a little way to go it is understandable why Toyota dumbed down the gauge reading, the sensor in the cylinder head where the coolant will be more or less at it's hottest. If my thermostat had reached the maximum opening point then it is possible the gauge could have been close to or even in the red, very worrying for the uninitiated!

Back to the tests.

Temperature outside is now 38 C (100.4 F), as I drive down the other side of the hill and within a mile the second speed was off, the first speed did not go off for around a further 2 miles so around 3 miles in all.

I repeated the test using the same speed and still using the A/C but I used the LO speed on the blower, the lower fan speed came on just at the beginning of the 500 metre part of the hill, the second speed did not come on, gauge showed around 2/3rd's.

Repeated again same speed, this time with A/C off (the things I do for you guys) and this time the slow speed came on not much further up the hill than when the A/C blower was on LO, but the temperature gauge was barely passed half way up. Hill test over and I could not wait to get the A/C back on!

Pulling up and idling with no A/C the slow speed of the fan would come on for around 20 seconds, off round 1 min 20 seconds, this pretty much repeated it self within a few seconds of each cycle.

At idle with the A/C on, the fan second speed would cycle on and off in response to the A/C line pressure switch, this meant the low speed of the cooling fan would never be called on as the fan kept the engine temperature well down in fact, the gauge needle sitting where it would normally be if I was driving along at around 50/60 MPH, i.e. the thermostat is controlling the temperature of the engine by remaining open perhaps midway?

Next test, the A/C blower on HI, the condenser fan would cycle on and off at any steady speed lower than 30 MPH, remember it is around 38 C (100.4 F).

With A/C blower on LO, the condenser fan would cycle on and off at any speed lower than 20 MPH with the same outside temperature.

So to all intents and purposes the engine cooling fan is not needed for any speed over 30 MPH, not for engine cooling or decent A/C function but, IS needed for high..ish speed and hill climbing, at no time over 30 MPH did the A/C pressure switch activate the second fan speed.

I know the OE thermostat opens at 74 -76 C (165.2 - 168.8 F) but, I needed to find out what it's maximum opening temperature is to determine if my switch choice turns out to be correct.

The 'edit' in red above confirms the maximum opening temperature is in fact 90 C (194 F). I was sure I was pretty much on the money with this fan conversion/modification but, I am now thinking I have gone just a little too low with the 80 C (176.0 F) switch, I am asking the fan to adjust the engine temperature as opposed to the thermostat. There are other areas to refine, in particular there is no guards/deflectors or packing around any part of the radiator or condenser, so more effective cooling could be had here, at present ram air is hitting the condenser, plenty going through but, it can escape around the radiator, I also note there is no panel between the radiator and front panel, this would allow plenty of ram air to escape.

I will leave the present set up 'as is' and concentrate on getting the dash indicators looking how I want them, for now it works great, I will continue to monitor the install as it stands, with 45+C (113.0 F) expected over the next couple of months, middle of July I have a steady non stop 2 hour drive on the motorway I am sure if there is a problem it will soon show up, if anything I feel the low speed fan may get activated at speed and not switch off as the hysteresis means the temperatures have to fall quite significantly for the low speed to switch off.

Many thanks to followers of this sometimes deep but IMO hopefully very informative thread.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update time.

Temperatures continued to rise and we remained on 'Red alert' for three days continuous, one day hitting 44 C (111.2 F). Nothing really changed with the LC, everything staying nice and cool, A/C a breeze and so forth. I realised I had not really done much testing without A/C when in town. I normally roll through with the A/C on and the temp gauge stays more or less as when steady driving at say 60 - 70 MPH.

So on the mega 44 C day I went into town to pick up a friend, and decided while waiting outside her apartment to see what the cooling system did with the temperatures with the A/C off, (yeh I know I am well hard), so I timed using the stop watch on my cell phone, data is as follows:

Engine at idle, (600 rpm), outside 44 C, no breeze and at sea level.

Pulled up after a 6 km steady drive so engine up to temperature.

After 2 min 43 sec fan came on at it's lowest speed and at 80 C (176 F)

18 .1 sec later fan was off

1 min 19 sec Fan on

19.3 Fan off

1 min 18 sec Fan on

21.07 Fan off

1 min 23 sec Fan on

18.6 Fan off

Friend turns up, test stopped.

There is enough data there to suggest that the fan even on it's slowest speed, can pull enough air through the radiator/condenser combination to keep the engine cool.

So this test just tells us that in traffic the slow speed setting of the fan copes with our present high temperatures with plenty to spare. I also know if the temperatures climbed any higher then the second higher speed would easily cope, note my previous tests that at idle the second speed of the fan coming on with the A/C cooled the engine right down to lower than the 80 C switch.

Over the coming few days I have a couple of airport runs and will see what that returns, reservations at the moment are few, perhaps extra sealing around the radiator will lower the temperatures at high speed 80 MPH or higher?

I had also considered connecting the alternator to the auxiliary battery first as opposed to the present system where I have prioritised the starter battery. In effect the auxiliary battery (and hence the fan) will 'see' a slightly lower voltage, this may affect the fans ultimate output. I will have a think about this point but it makes sense, at present the auxiliary battery supplies EVERYTHING except the starter, I can couple them if need be at the press of a button, I am jut not sure what to do here for the longevity of the batteries and the ultimate performance of the cooling fan......hmmmmmm.


Aside from the fan system, today I picked up the replacement full length roof rack and earlier during the week the Flexitank that goes in the right hand rear quarter panel of the 80 and holds 25+ litres arrived from Australia, so it is all happening at the moment!

Update next week after the three or more runs to the airport with some more temperature data.


regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update time:

Three airport runs in four days gave some expected and unexpected results. The first run earlier in the week saw me running a steady 80 MPH on a clear toll road, 65 miles, just a few moments pause to pay the toll. Outside temperature 39 C (102.2 F), me and one passenger A/C on slow speed fan.

On the level the temperature gauge would climb to about a third and sit there steady but, even the slightest incline that took more than two or three minutes to climb would bring on the slow speed of the fan, we know this from the switch testing that it is 80 C (176.0 F). To get the fan to switch off I tried easing the speed down to 70 MPH, after around four or five minutes the fan would switch off, we know this is at the 74 C (165.2 F). Knowing the thermostat closes (or more correctly goes into bypass mode) my conclusion is the lower speed closes the thermostat for a short period of time, as the engine starts to heat up again the thermostat opens and the now very cool water that was trapped in the radiator flows through the bottom hose and switches off the fan. This IMO is not ideal as the fan is running for excessive periods of time. TBH I had feared this and mentioned it in an earlier post, this is where the programmable digital controllers come in but, I am not about to drop the coin on one of those yet, I need to know my system can be left in place permanently without incurring cost for something that may bring unreliability into the system.

The return journey showed up something I was not expecting. Now with five people on board I started for home, it was cooler as it was around 23.00, so although now dark it was still 32 C (89.6 F) outside, I had the A/C still on slow but the front passenger complained of being cold, the rear passengers were OK, in an effort to keep everyone happy I switched the air direction to screen, in effect blowing the cold air up and over me and the front passenger. Now we have all seen the windscreen get condensation on the outside with the A/C pointing at the screen but, I was doing 80 MPH and all of sudden noticed the windscreen misting up, I thought there was something wrong as you do not get condensation if the A/C is set correctly, I had to slow down as my vision through the screen started to get worse, silly me....I forgot to put on the wipers! Yep, 80 MPH and the condensation on the outside was so bad I had to leave the wipers on until I could get some heat into the screen, my A/C is seriously bad ass!!

So no more surprises, the fan occasionally came on during the inclines and switched off on the downside, a lot quicker if trailing the throttle. The following day the same run in similar temps and I could almost predict when the fan would come on, the conditions easily repeatable.

The Monday came with the long airport run, this was two hours there pull up drop my friends and two hours drive back, so the car was at 80 MPH for four hours bar idling for around five or six minutes whilst we said our good byes.

Outside temperatures along the coast motorway were pegged at 38 C (100.4 F), all the way there, it was during this long steady run that I done some experimenting. I found the steady 80 MPH/uphill/fan on/down hill/fan off sequence could be broken if I switched off the A/C. Yeh I know this is obvious but it demonstrates the A/C during my tests was dumping at least 5 C (41.0 F) into the cooling system. Now we know the thermostat 'range' is around 14 - 16 C (57.2 - 60.8 F) from closed to fully open, this would mean the A/C is effectively reducing the cooling capacity by a third, this is the trick Toyota use to get some extra cooling by shutting off the A/C when the engine is approaching maximum operating temperature, hence giving you a few more degrees to play with.

Because I an trying to mimic the normal running temperatures as possible, I must see if I can get the fan to stay off when running at high speeds and when additional workload is applied to the engine. One thing is for certain, there is no way this engine will overheat with the A/C on when idling, the fan's first speed easily holding idle temps and if the A/C is on (second fan speed) the temperature gauge is pegged virtually at the bottom of the scale, i.e. colder than when driving at say 60 MPH. I will be looking this week at improving air direction through the condenser and radiator. I have no spotlights/winch or anything else to reduce air flow, I have no sponge or the lower plate fitted so air can simply bounce of the radiator faces and deflect around them.

I would love to get something done before Friday as I have another four hour round trip on Friday, Saturday will also see me with six bodies and their luggage for a two hour round trip, I will see what I can squeeze in, but it is too bloody hot to work at the moment.

See what I can get done and if it improves results at speed, get back to you.

regards

Dave

EDIT: Managed to get some time in the underground garage, still a barmy 33 C (91.4F) down there and it was a case of betty swollocks I can tell you!!

Have now directed air flow from the vents in the bumper upwards towards the lower radiator area, also blocked in the sides up to the headlights, also around the edge of the A/C condenser, give up the details later as I am knackered now but have faith, it is as tight as a ducks arse under there, so not much air going to escape before it hits the radiator, first test tomorrow pm.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update time.

NOTE: This update covers the last of the modifications, it is also a sum up of everything done thus far so is quite lengthy so grab a coffee and a sandwich and get yourself comfortable, I welcome any and all comments/observations/questions.

As per my last post I was looking to keep the 80 C (176.0 F) switch as it worked as near perfect as could be expected except for the hysteresis in the switch on/off temperatures.

This was explained in my last post but the issue is once the fan is on it was necessary to lower speeds to around 70 MPH and switch off the A/C to get the coolant cool enough to switch the fan off. I needed to increase airflow through the condenser/radiator combination, this has been spoke about before in previous threads about cooling problems by other contributors, and in fact the 80 left the factory with pieces of sponge strategically placed around the radiator assembly, this prevents air bypassing the radiator core. I wanted to try something that would due to time constraints (five airport runs in 5 days and another two by the weekend), be quick and easy to install and if it did not work could be pulled out at the side of the motorway if need be.

The holes in the front bumper are definitely there to aid cooling and not just to make it look pretty, if you look closely enough they are shaped to allow air into the lower radiator area, this it seems was deemed to be necessary by Toyota along with the optional electric fan to help with high temperatures. Unfortunately there are large gaps below and between them and the radiator. So whilst closing gaps around the radiator I plugged the bumper vents/condenser gaps up as best as I could, if it was to be done properly you would have to remove the bumper, fabricate the baffles and then refit, I simply did not have the time to do that. Also of note, the typical European number plate actually covers around 25% of each of these openings, I could have simply lowered it down but that would have left an edge of the plate exposed where the lower part of the bumper folded under, easy for the brushes of the car wash to pull off, so I thought an easy and tidy way out would be to have a plate made up similar in size to the one used on the front of the Alfa Romeo, much shorter than the standard one, this should fit right in between the cooling slots, tomorrow (Saturday) will see me in the shop

Back to the gaps, I had thought about heavy card, aluminium/tin sheeting but, whilst wandering around the various stores I came across the perfect material..... polystyrene! Advantages are it is easy to cut/squeeze/wedge into place, easy to remove if need be and if I was stupid enough to bump into something it would simply fall apart as opposed to cutting through the radiator or condenser. About one and half inches thick, long and wide enough to cut to shape between the bumper and the lower front cross member, a few quick cuts with a modelling knife and some duct tape had most of the gaps around the two components sealed up. I had blocked off and filled as many spaces as possible without dismantling, I could not cut a thin piece of the polystyrene to go in the gap between the header tank as it would have fallen apart, I have a plan for that tomorrow. OK, it is now Friday and off I go on another four hour round trip with my polystyrene and duct tape ‘baffles’, similar time of day with similar temperatures to earlier in the week, and of course I kept around the 80 MPH most of the time. The route taken today meant climbing my favourite test hill, and low and behold a measurable improvement! The first fan speed came on later than normal but of more importance the second speed did not come on at all! We already know the first speed comes on at 80 C (176.0 F) and we know the second speed comes on at 87 C (188.6 F) which was happening in my previous tests, this is clear evidence that even a hasty blocking of the spaces around the radiator will lower temperatures by at least 7 degrees C (44.6 F), a credible improvement with minimal outlay for testing purposes.

The rest of the journey was pretty much as per earlier in the week but, the first speed fan definitely took longer to come on and was not as sensitive to gentle increases in workload, when it did come on it would go off sooner, the increased air flow bringing the temperatures down quicker. I say bringing temperatures down but they are really not high at all, I am quite mechanically sympathetic when it comes to heat/lubrication and thus my quest to mimic the OE set up as near as possible is being a little complicated by the switch temperature variations but I am sure I am close...very close but, I am still seeing the fan come on, I would also guess I am trying to keep the engine temperature a little too low?

So to this morning (Saturday) and I am at the shop to have a shorter number plate made up, easy huh......yeh right!!

The guy behind the counter said no way! He explained, "sorry sir can’t do that, you have to apply under the ‘homogolado rules". Arrrrrrgh!!!!!! So that is out of the question, if I fit it I leave myself open to a fine as would the shop owner for breaching the fabrication rules. I will have to lower the standard plate to clear the holes or, if I can have a plate without the ‘Euro’ logo this will make the plate a little shorter so I need to investigate that avenue.

I also picked up some door sealing rubber, the stuff that fits over the frame edge with a nice squidgy rubber tube that conforms to different shapes, it is almost identical to that used around the top of the battery enclosures and seals against the bonnet to help with battery temperatures. I fitted a piece along the top of the radiator, the gap to small to fit polystyrene, there are gaps down the side of the radiator that were not accessible with the door edging, ideally the radiator needs to be removed to fit the edging moulding around it to make it truly effective, something for a later date when the car is not being used so much. And talking about radiators, mine is not a Koyo or any other known brand name, the guy in the shop (March 2010) told me it was a well made plastic/aluminium radiator for my model. I had only just purchased the car at the time the radiator condition was noted to be very poor, and I had a ferry to catch to get to Spain and grabbed the first radiator I could get my hands on. The replacement is still in there unless when reading further on you see different, I suppose it could be changed for a better version, not too concerned at the moment though, I simply added that to prove you do not need to have the most expensive ‘all singing all dancing’ item out there to achieve effective cooling, no doubt a better quality and heavier duty version will help keep temperatures in check but thus far all is looking good with a basic stock unit. I also took advantage of having a bright lamp with me and shone it through the radiator/condenser fins to check all was clear, easy with an electric fan.

Whilst checking my handiwork I remembered seeing a picture many moons back of an 80 that had two large spotlights, the grill and the bumper removed at the same tine and you could clearly see the lamps had been blocking the airflow by the shading of dust and bugs on the condenser face, so I then turned my attention to my two horns. These are not the original, they are two quite large (and loud) round units I had fitted when the originals started acting up, they were clearly obstructing some of the passage of air to the radiator, for the moment I loosened the mounting bolts and rotated them up towards the slam panel and almost out of the airflow. Next step was to change the first fan speed switch for the alternative 82 C (179.6 F) ON and 74 C (165.2 F) OFF, I know this is an increase of only 2 degrees C (35.6 F) but this is about slowly homing in on the optimum set up.

That brings me nicely to Saturday evening, six people on board with plenty of luggage, I am sure the girls simply screwed a handle to the side of their wardrobes and called them cases! I just managed to squeeze it all in and away we went to the airport again, and straight away another improvement, despite the switch for the first fan speed needing just two degrees of extra heat to activate, the fan did not come on....not once. I have to allow for the fact that the temperatures had dropped towards the afternoon from the 38 C - 41 C (100.4 F - 105.8 F we have been seeing to a cooler 33 C (91.4 F) The temperature gauge also indicated that not only was the engine running cooler but there was less overall movement, remember the standard gauge has been modified to recognise true temperature variations within the engine. Despite running at 80 MPH for most of the journey on the way there was not much movement from the gauge, so that is good, on the return journey I run up to an indicated (alleged) 110 MPH for a short period of time the amount the needle climbed was minimal probably two needle widths but still not enough to trigger the fan switch. I always say ‘make alterations/modifications one at a time’ so you can measure ‘real world’ improvements or failures but, I broke my own rules by:

Increasing the fan switch ‘on’ setting.

Blocking the gap around the top of the radiator.

Moving the horns out of the airflow, three modifications in one go. This means I cannot tell which one made the most difference, the truth is I guess each made a small contribution?

Adding the fan switch may seem odd as it would not affect the early climb in temperatures but, what if when the fan comes on early, and the airflow from moving at speed was now being impeded by the fans rotation? This may explain why I had to lower speed slightly and on occasions switch off the A/C?

As I am now close to completing the testing of the electric fan installation, with just minor tidying of wiring and fitting of the dash indicators (still waiting on LED’s) I will draw the following conclusions:

Without a shadow of a doubt the electric fan (1st speed) matches the the stock offering at idle, never running for more than 22 seconds before shutting down, remember the outside temperatures inland during this test were 44 C (111. F), I have never seen the second speed come on during idle, the engine simply does not get that hot period.

The A/C is more efficient at idle, the A/C compressor able to stay ‘engaged’ longer as the electric fan draws more heat off the condenser, thus cooling the interior quicker from first start up, and there is less 'rise and fall' of interior temperatures as the compressor stays engaged longer than when the condenser is being cooled by the standard VC driven fan.

The 2nd speed of the fan easily outperforms the viscous coupling at idle, I have little doubt about this, even assuming the fan clutch was fixed (which it never is) the slow 600 rpm speed of the engine means the fan is probably turning around 1,800 rpm, a comparable size fan turning at around 3,000 will match the VC in performance but, see the caveat towards the end of this article about simply bolting on a fan. As a test with the engine idling if I switch on the AC the 2nd fan speed comes on within 4 - 5 seconds? Remember the electric fan is responding to the pressure change inside the A/C system, there is no way the viscous coupling is going to respond that fast, this in effect means the A/C again is quicker at cooling the interior. With the A/C on and at speed the fan is of course off but, as forward motion of the vehicle slows and approaching speeds of around 25 - 30 the A/C line pressure starts to rise and the electric fan comes on instantly, this exposes the condenser to strong airflow more or less as the vehicle comes to a stop, the stock viscous coupling has yet to warm before it starts to pull any significant air through the condenser, the result is again felt with the more even and efficient A/C function.

To cooling.

I had always assumed on all vehicles that the movement of air at speeds over about 20 MPH was enough to cool the engine....which it 'normally' is but there is a caveat at work here as well.

As the speed increases thus does the workload which is obvious but, many people do not realise how much the workload increases, in fact it is IIRC around a factor of eight? So if we assume the airflow at say 20 MPH is adequate to cool the engine then if we move the speed to 40 MPH i.e.8 times increase in the workload then the airflow must increase through the cooling system by the same amount. There are of course variables, I am no expert in airflow dynamics but even I can see the breeze block shape of the 80 is going to be very hard work to move at my ‘controlled’ 80 MPH tests. Years ago I observed my V12 Jaguar with twin electric fans, got hot enough at speeds approaching 140 MPH (French trip to the Le Mans 24 hour race) to bring on the fans, the A/C having been removed on that car as it was used in ‘unofficial’ competition so this was purely a result of cooling system function, the Jaguar looking and undoubtedly was more aerodynamic that the 80. If my figures are wrong on the workload please feel free to correct me I am getting old. OK, this means that as much air as humanly possible hitting the front of the 80 must be utilised and directed through the condenser/radiator. I would surmise that at speeds over about 70 - 80 MPH the VC fan detecting the heat coming from the radiator (increased workload) starts to drive the fan with more force but, not necessarily moving enough air to cool the engine but, by creating a negative or lower pressure signal behind the radiator, thus allowing more cooling air to enter the core as opposed to going around it, this is me surmising here as mentioned above I am no expert. My own fan triggering at speed indicates that this theory could in fact hold water however, I am sure there is no way my fan could move as much air as the vehicle could at 80 MPH, so why do they come on and manage to cool the engine at that speed, lower air pressure behind the radiator? Are bonnet vents more of an advantage than we realise?

My quick and somewhat amateurish attempts of plugging the gaps around the radiator seems to have netted excellent results at speed, add in that any obstructions will disrupt airflow aimed directly at the radiator, we are all familiar with what happens when you put your hand out of the window but with the door mirror shielding it from the airflow when driving at speed, the force your hand meets when moved out from the protection from the force met is quite dramatic, this very force IMO is what is being blocked or at least disrupted by large spotlights that many owners fit, and of course the higher mounted winches, is it a coincidence the the Toyota OE winch is narrow in design and mounted low down between the chassis rails out of the airflow?

OK, to the way forward, my plans are as follows:

Over the next four weeks this area of Spain will see it’s highest temperatures of the year so more testing wherever possible, I hope to make a run to 'Seville', known as the 'frying pan of Spain' 48 C (118.4 F)!!

Permanently move the horns away from the radiator area.

Purchase a new fan motor, my testing is with an unknown mileage second hand one.

I ‘may’ return to the lower temperature switch having apparently fitted it prematurely to be decided upon.

Fit the fan/shroud combination a little tighter to the radiator, very close now though.

Refit the radiator while ensuring the moulding to block escaping air as much as possible is used to good effect.

Remove the bumper (it has a small dent anyway and needs replacing/repairing) and make the baffles out of something a little more easier on the eye, perhaps with aluminium or even fibreglass so they can fitted/removed with a couple of self tapping screws.

Resolve the number plate blocking the air intakes on the bumper.

Fit the low water sensor in the top hose.

Complete the dashboard warning lights/buzzer install.

Consider a digital controller but way down the list at the moment, research shows they are not as tough as the manufacturers would have us believe.

To all of this I would add, on the 80 you cannot just bolt in an electric fan and expect it to work, it did on my old Granada, Capri, Jaguar, Discovery (used as a DD AND competitions) but not on the 80, I mentioned the caveat earlier to such a simple assumption. Some have tried and from comments received just as many have failed, I am unsure why but suffice to say it is possible. Manufacturer's have for many years recognised the advantage of fitting an electric fan but, it was during the design stage, i.e. Jeep running their fans from power steering pumps was an early idea, Land Rover recognising the viscous coupling performance could be improved by fitting an electric ‘lock up’ so the A/C would be better at idle and finally Mercedes running an electric system in their ML class 4x4, it can be done. For it to be effective and reliable you need to be careful with your fan choice, (so much BS out there about fans it is untrue!), rugged switching mechanisms, decent wiring, decent batteries and an alternator capable of matching the amperage needed to run a powerful fan fast enough to cool the engine.

Unless anything significant happens then the next post related to this electric fan install will simply be a couple of shots/explanation of the dashboard indicators and shots of the permanent baffles I will fit later in the year.

Finally, some of my faster runs on Friday and Saturday saw speeds (allegedly) of 100 - 110 MPH, most of the time at 80 MPH, and over the test the LC returned 21.98 MPG averaged out over 800 miles , you guys across the pond are probably not interested but I thought I would throw it in anyway.

Thanks for your time reading and 'likes' of this thread, they are appreciated.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Last night I managed to get the fan status LED's into the dashboard. You may recall I was trying to mimic the Toyota design where you cannot see the icon until it is illuminated?

I have managed a somewhat halfway house attempt. I sourced some smoked plastic and cut strips to fit in the slot normally reserved for the gear selected on the automatics. Still trying to have all the gadgets but fitted as discreetly as possible.

There are five icons, from top to bottom:

Flashing Red, Oil pressure, no oil light on UK spec 80's a serious oversight IMO on any car not fitted with one.
Flashing Red, Low coolant.
Flashing Red, High engine temperature.
Amber, 2nd speed fan (fast), seen most of the time as soon as the car slows or is stationary when the AC is on.
Green, 1st speed fan (slow), seen if lower hose temp gets to 82c (179.6F)

The Red LED circuits are linked to a buzzer, of course you have to 'suffer' the buzzer when the ignition is first switched on as there is no oil pressure, as soon as the engine starts the pressure builds within a second and the buzzer stops. When I need to work on the vehicle and have to leave the ignition on there is an override switch that can be used to silence the buzzer but does not turn off the light otherwise it would drive you nuts. The low coolant trigger still to be decided on, the high temp is wired though and shows if the bottom hose temp gets above 95c (203.0F). Going by my tests thus far 95c may be a little conservative, will leave as is for the moment.

First impressions are good, I can barely see the icons with the naked eye but the camera flash does show them up, they are behind two layers of the smoked plastic, testing in doors however show the brightness of the LED's overpowering the icon image. To make the LED's visible behind the smoked plastic layers I had to use high brightness versions, in reality I might have got away with normal brightness. Of course I know thier relative position/colours/meaning but not much use to someone who does not know the car. As is common on projects we get two steps forward and three back, I cracked the plastic cover during assembly and am pretty pissed off about it, I am hoping a guy in the UK gets a replacement to me asap because it looks worse than the camera shows.

If I had to mark the dash LED project I would give it 10/10 for functionality, for visual appeal when all LED's are off perhaps 8/10, keep in mind the smoked plastic is shiny whereas the rest of the dash area is matt, when any LED lights up my opinion on the visuals drops to perhaps 5/10? I could perhaps put lower output LED's, this would be easy enough as they are now all mounted in holders so a simple two minute swap when the dash is out.

The alternative is to find someone who can make something custom to match the black that Toyota uses, another is to track down dashboards that have the same 'now you see me, now you don't' icons, plenty out there for oil and temperature, but not for low water/fans, as the basic system works great I can at least concentrate on other parts of the car and revisit this as and when I feel.

I have attached a couple of cell phone pictures, side shots as the flash reflects badly and you can see nothing, flash off and the pictures are too dark,

I will install the dash later and see how it looks with the LEDs on, for now you get the idea. The gear selector gap has been widened to allow full size icons to be used.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

I had tested the water bladder I bought second hand, shoved it in the rear quarter panel and hooked up the water pump and shower, all worked great. So I had filled the bladder and left some baby bottle bleach in there, to make sure it was clean, no reason to suspect otherwise as it was in great condition.

It had been in there a couple of weeks when I noticed some dripping from the rear end towards the wheel arch where the bladder was lying, I had not bolted it up yet. The problem was no big deal, I had not secured the fill entry cap properly, the bag as it was low had folded over in the panel and was dripping.

I removed the bladder and cleared the dust and mud from the bottom of the quarter panel, and found the 'tin worm' had been at work. The wheel arch nearest to the panel where the bladder is had corroded and was on the, must get that done list. Closer inspection shows the rust is actually through to the arch inner skin where the water bladder sits, so before the bladder is permanently installed I will be visiting the body shop for some repairs, once they are done I will then see if they can do a decent job on the car as well.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update time.

The LC has been giving sterling service as airport runner, and local taxi for the 'boys' often in 35c heat and it just get's on with the job.

So what has actually been done? Most days when I had nothing to do and wanted to work on the car, it was way too hot even in the underground car park, the humidity was really bad, so minor stuff really, but worthy of a mention.

Those of you that follow this thread, may recall the fitting the NL battery monitor, and Blue Seas changeover switch for the split charging of the batteries a couple of years back? As with many modifications what starts off as a great idea and you think you have worked out perfectly does not always pan out like that. I thought the position of NL monitor was ok...ish but, often found myself leaning forward to see the LED's straight on, made even more difficult to see if the sun happened to be in the wrong place when checking them.

I also found that on occasions the changeover switch had 'lifted' out of it's hole by a small amount but thought I had enough clearance when fitted so had to investigate further, the ageing appearance of the black on the console plastic was also looking a little untidy, so a makeover was in order.

First picture is the 'old' console.

And the following two pictures are of the new 'revamped' version.

As you can see I have built a ramp for the monitor to sit in, this makes it way more visible at a glance whist in the normal driving position. The switch being moved was because one of the terminals underneath were touching the ABS sensor, if I inadvertently lent on the console the small amount of movement/flex was enough to start the switch moving out of the hole. Moving the switch forward a little has now sorted that , I could have bent one of the terminals as it was only about an 1/8th of an inch of interference, my bad with the tape measure on the original install.

I decided against a coat of paint and instead went for heavy duty speaker cabinet covering, it is like a very fine and thin carpet, I plan to do the rear out in this as the drawer system comes together. That has now been started by my first attempt at the gauge and switch panel shown below.

OK I concede I could have edited out the tiles before any of you think they are fitted in the LC!

Those of you sharp enough to notice the gauges/switches appear 'off centre' in the panel and wondering why, well this panel is mounted on the right hand side of the car and is seen as you drop the tailgate, if you were to look at the OE plastic panel on the right (my water bladder is behind there) the panel curves in, the panel front will be bolted to a box which sits lightly recessed where the curve ends, the result is no part of the right hand gauge will be obscured, well..... that is my plan anyway, and we know what happens to plans right?

I have also replaced the cracked trim panel behind the drivers door (RHD) door release lever so that is done, and replaced the odd bulb here and there in one or two switches.

The status indicator between the major dials continues to function perfectly, many will recall I had reservations about the graphics, I can now confirm I have found a company that will custom build something for me, more of that later, the clear screen over the dials that I cracked when I last removed it, has also been replaced.

Cooling fan/AC all still working great and we are still getting 30+ c degrees here, fan takes it in it's stride.

That's all for now,

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Update time. The temperatures here have finally relented and dropped to circa 30C. In the last few days managed to get a couple of long runs in, fan not seen at all in these cooler temps unless idling with the AC on, or if I have been driving her a little hard and then pull up without the AC on, the slow speed of the fan comes on after about 30 seconds idling, also after waiting for the garage door to open and then getting her squared up in the parking space the slow fan comes on, followers of this thread may recall there was a lot of heat soak with no air movement in the underground garage, well the fan takes care of this just nicely. The LED indicators work perfectly keeping me informed of what is happening under the bonnet, I am in the process with a stateside company of designing better graphics for the dashboard, this will give a more professional finish than I can achieve with my skills with sticky backed icons, and LED's bright enough to give me a tan.

The centre console is finally finished, the wing nut clamps for the large Maglite are now gone in favour of the proper mounts, I was worried they might not hold the torch tight enough during my enthusiastic driving ventures but it seems fine. I could if need be double up on the clamps but these are quite robust so time will tell.

The repositioning of the NL battery monitor makes it easy to see now in any light, there is also less reflection on the screen at night as it is tucked slightly under the dashboard. At a glance it looks as if it is lying flat but this is an optical illusion, it is in fact is tilted up at around 45 degrees, there is a picture of it side on in a previous post.

Of note was the right hand battery was showing a lower voltage than the left this morning, the car only having stood for three days. The normal mode is the two batteries are parallel when driving/parked up, the alarm and other parasitic drains coming from both batteries. When the battery voltage starts to drop the Blue Seas isolator does it's job and splits the batteries. The right hand battery then taking over alarm duties, the left hand being saved for the starter. After a week or two of standing it is not uncommon to find they have been separated but the voltages are still very close to each other showing 100%, this morning showing the right hand one down to 75% within three days raised an eyebrow.

One of the advantages of getting rid of the 24 volt starting system used in the diesels, is that it allows me to detect when a battery is failing and this has now warned me I am about to open the cruiser wallet again. The batteries have been in there 4 years and were ridiculously cheap for marine use so have done their job.

I also fitted the 2nd and 3rd interior lights with LED bulbs, not bothering with a pic as you seen them countless times elsewhere, I forgot the 1st interior light is a normal type bulb, need to find out what LED version goes in there. The rearmost interior light would have gone in today but somebody borrowed my battery drill with promises of 'I will have it back tomorrow'...last week sometime!

As usual sterling service from the old girl as she approaches her 21st birthday.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Today replaced the engine oil and filter @ 239,282 miles. This is a little under sixth months since the last change @ 236,865 so I have only covered 2,417 miles since the last change, perhaps overkill but, as there have been some hard fast runs over long distances in 40 degree C heat, mixed in with plenty of local 'Dave's taxi' runs I am happy it is out of the way, that was my last oil filter as well, note to self, need to order some more.

Just for reference, as there is no oil light pressure light on diesel 80's I fitted one awhile back. I recently fitted an adjustable oil pressure switch and finally set it to indicate low oil pressure at 20 psi or lower, and for the record.

When starting from cold the light goes out after 2 - 4 seconds.
Gauge registers pressure after 6 - 7 seconds
After oil and filter change light goes out after 9 - 10 seconds.
Gauge does not move and register any pressure for 12 - 13 seconds

Air filter was also replaced with the previous one which was washed out and dried at the last change, OE air filters are washable and IIRC up to ten times, I have noted the pleats start to go out of line after the second wash, I think I will only give them perhaps five washes before discarding them, they always get done with the oil and filters so two will last me about three years.

Also fitted the shielded switches for the buzzer cut out and fan cut out for wading, I am assuming that most like me when driving and in particular when off roading and avoiding obstacles do not keep watching the oil pressure gauge, a light attracts your attention way quicker than a falling pressure gauge, I had also fitted a buzzer, any lack of oil pressure/loss of water or overheating is brought to my attention immediately but, when working on the car that requires the ignition on but engine not running the noise would drive you mental, today's fitment of the switch allows me to disable the buzzer, it cannot be activated accidently as it is a switch with a cover as is the fan cut out, also the position of them tucked under the lower portion of the dashboard on the centre console means you have to make a conscious effort to operate them, in the event that either switch is activated a red flashing LED in dashboard cluster warns that there is no audible warnings available.

Other than that a steam clean of the engine and a good wash and she is back in the underground garage, the gearbox is still slightly reluctant from 1st to 2nd in particular when cold, it is virtually unnoticeable unless looking for it, when I get around to it I will try a different oil again but, need to concentrate on a rear brake overhaul inc handbrake, there was some oval drum readings on the handbrake at the last inspection, also a couple of batteries are on the list as well, factor in the welding needed to the right rear inner arch means I am going to spend some coin on her this year for sure, but my LC 80 is well worth it IMO.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

A UK club member asked for these pictures but there are technical issues so put them here.

These pictures are of how my diesel engine oil looks after a change, this is around 150 miles, done since last weekend. There is a fallacy that oil goes black instantly after a change, the reality is if it does then you need to do a sacrificial oil change to get it clean. I am a bit OTT with the oil changes whenever possible and whether it extends the life of the engine is debateable, but I am happy to see it like that.

regards

Dave

 

[IanB]

The soot suspended in any oil left in the engine after an oil change "colors" the new oil very quickly I've found, makes it much easier to see the level on the dipstick when topping up after a quick run to circulate everything when changing the oil. How long do you let your oil drain when doing an oil change to get it all out? My oil looks that dark immediately after running the engine following an oil change.

Interestingly, I had a UOA done at my last oilchange after 10k kms, and the results were excellent, and recommended pushing to 12k for my next interval, running 5w40 Rotella T6 synthetic.

 

[Dave 2000]

The soot suspended in any oil left in the engine after an oil change "colors" the new oil very quickly I've found, makes it much easier to see the level on the dipstick when topping up after a quick run to circulate everything when changing the oil. How long do you let your oil drain when doing an oil change to get it all out? My oil looks that dark immediately after running the engine following an oil change.

Interestingly, I had a UOA done at my last oilchange after 10k kms, and the results were excellent, and recommended pushing to 12k for my next interval, running 5w40 Rotella T6 synthetic.

I agree Ian, the soot left from the previous oil is the reason it looks tainted. I get the engine hot and then pull the sump plug, it will be left out until it stops dripping, I also make sure the oil filter is off so that gallery can drain as well. There will always be some residue from dips and low lying areas in the engine, and we know the oil pump does not empty.........until you pull the strainer to do the BEB's and another half cup comes out! I could simply change again and then it would be spotless, anal I am, very rich and completely stupid I am not but, I like to think I am giving the old girl the best chance of surviving her old her age a bit longer.

Just a thought Ian, are your cars diesel like mine? I have the missed my own 5,000 intervals on the odd occasions but would hate to think I went over say perhaps 6 - 7,000?

EDIT: Just clicked the links in your post and see HDJ81 so ignore the last question, I assumed a VX LTD was perhaps available as a petrol option.

regards

Dave

 

[IanB]

I agree Ian, the soot left from the previous oil is the reason it looks tainted. I get the engine hot and then pull the sump plug, it will be left out until it stops dripping, I also make sure the oil filter is off so that gallery can drain as well. There will always be some residue from dips and low lying areas in the engine, and we know the oil pump does not empty.........until you pull the strainer to do the BEB's and another half cup comes out! I could simply change again and then it would be spotless, anal I am, very rich and completely stupid I am not but, I like to think I am giving the old girl the best chance of surviving her old her age a bit longer.

Just a thought Ian, are your cars diesel like mine? I have the missed my own 5,000 intervals on the odd occasions but would hate to think I went over say perhaps 6 - 7,000?

EDIT: Just clicked the links in your post and see HDJ81 so ignore the last question, I assumed a VX LTD was perhaps available as a petrol option.

regards

Dave

You can get the VX Ltd. trim with a gas engine, but mine have all been diesels as well.

You're using miles right? So your 5,000 mile interval = 8000kms, I'm using 10,000kms and have been told the oil is good to at least 12,000kms based on the sample I submitted to Blackstone Labs. What will realistically happen is I'll change the oil in the spring and fall, whether it needs it or not.

I'll run the engine, not necessarily to operating temp though, drop the sump plug and let it drain, then remove and replace the filter, and then plug the sump and refill, I don't wait for it to stop dripping (how long does that take?!?). I expect there will always be some oil left in the engine, another 20 min of waiting for the drips to stop would amount to roughly negligible amounts of old oil being drained compared to the way I'm doing it, IMO. Time is valuable, lol.

 

[Dave 2000]

Yes miles mate. With very hot oil being so thin it takes around 10 - -15 minutes to stop dripping, if you wait long enough you might get another drip? Your right the amount left in after about 6 - 7 minutes is nothing to be concerned about.

I have never used an oil laboratory in my life, interesting to read the results but not something I would bother with personally but handy if you have a specific problem you are looking for.

regards

Dave

 

[IanB]

Yes miles mate. With very hot oil being so thin it takes around 10 - -15 minutes to stop dripping, if you wait long enough you might get another drip? Your right the amount left in after about 6 - 7 minutes is nothing to be concerned about.

I have never used an oil laboratory in my life, interesting to read the results but not something I would bother with personally but handy if you have a specific problem you are looking for.

regards

Dave

It's a fairly new to me vehicle, and I really just wanted to make sure my oil change intervals were not going to be an issue and cause any additional wear to the engine. It's also a great snapshot of the engine's health overall, and could be an early alert to any issues that I could act on before they become a problem. I likely won't ever re-sample for this vehicle unless I have an issue I'm chasing.

 

[Dave 2000]

Agreed, it is a good idea to get a baseline reading on an unknown engine, I have had to trust my instincts when buying second hand vehicles.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

The Spanish property builders have this thing that the English love bidets. The fact is this is not really our 'thing' and yet they continue to install them, so they sit (no pun intended) in the bathroom unused until now!

Perfect for draining and drying the 80 OE air filter after a wash!

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Friday the 13th has historically been bad for me, call it psychological BS if you like but some odd things often seem to happen on this particular day.

Without going into blah blah mode, long before I had left home bad things had happened but let me skip that and go straight to the moment I left for work I had jumped in my van, started and went to select a gear and the clutch cable snapped, no warning a simple BANG and that was that. I went down to the garage and gets in the LC turn the key and just a bleeping from the low battery alarm...FU*K! Press the parallel button and jump start engine. I knew the battery was starting to show some age so not too surprised. What did p*ss me off is I have just decided to do the 'Full Monty' on the brake system. I have just ordered all new discs and pads from Emtec in Ireland, I went for the grooved and dimpled versions, along with Mintex brake pads I was happy to suffer what is an expensive but well respected option. The stock OE units are generally fine IMO but alas IME they do heat up if you get a little enthusiastic with the throttle pedal and you will experience some fade. And as I am not known for half measures I am also in the market for all new callipers and flexes so looking for the best prices on them at the moment, there is plenty of reconditioned units out there but I wanted brand new units. So the new batteries have been ordered and should be here by the end of next week. Friday the 13th continued when one of my mates was discussing his holiday plans over Xmas, I am taking him to the airport....and then it dawned on me, I have booked my own flights and leave the day BEFORE his flight, more money swapping my flights around, what a tosser!

This is going to be an expensive month that is for sure!!

EDIT: Went for these, Brake Discs and Pads for Landcruiser 4.2 TD(HDJ80)08/92-10/98

regards

Dave