My first landcruiser; bj60 or hj60 ? (1 Viewer)

[DesRochers]

Hello, my name is Antoine DesRochers and I am in the process of buying my first landcruiser.
I am very very new to this forum.
Right now I am hesitating between a bj60 and a Hj60, I want to chose right and I got told this is the best place to ask questions so here am I...
Before I get down to my questions I'd like to lay down my needs so y'all have a better idea of what engine would suit me best.

First of all: I want to buy a car that will last me a lifetime; I am ready to take great care of it, rebuild the engine when the time comes, give it love, but I want it to last. Like millions kilometers before it dies.
Second; I will be transporting and hauling heavy stuff. I don't care if I have to drive slower, but I want the truck to carry construction materials, haul trees, etc. I am developping an ecological sanctuary in Quebec and there is a lot of construction job to do; I'm looking for a car that'll become my best friend in this project.
Third; Since I also drive a lot in the city, I would prefer an automatic transmission.
Fourth: I'd also prefer a vehicule big enough for me to sleep in it.

Here are my questions:
First, wich engine last longer (in terms of how may kms on the engine before rebuild) ?
Second, does an automatic transmission reduce the life span of the engine ? what's up with that ?

I hope I have given enough informations for y'all to best direct me and if not please ask me whatever.
I am ready to buy my new life companion anywhere in the americas (off course closest to quebec is my preference) and my budget right now is at max 10k for start. I am aware I'll need to put more money in this project as time goes by and I'm super chill with it.

I sincerly thank y'all in advance

Peace and love,
Antoine

 

[MarkBC]

vancouver, BC cars & trucks "landcruiser" - craigslist

vancouver, BC cars & trucks "landcruiser" - craigslist

vancouver.craigslist.org

Also check kijiji

 

[Seth S]

BJ = 3B vs HJ = 2H I believe. 3B is a 3.4 Liter 4 cylinder 8 valve where the 2H is a 4 liter 12 valve 6 cylinder engine. I’ve had neither. They are both pretty good engines but part availability is something you should research. Both are pretty slow but both can be turbo charged. My gut says you would be better off with the 2H. Or consider getting one of the newer Toyota diesels.

good luck finding a decent diesel for $10k that doesn’t have the doors rotting off it.

though I admire your passion I think there are a lot more vehicles out there that would better suit your needs and that are more affordable. Sure they may lack the charm but they will be a lot more reliable and practical for what you have described.

 

[pistonpete]

Yeah, finding anything with door's still hanging here in the east is almost impossible !

 

[Seth S]

SOLD - 1977 FJ45

$7200 CAD 1977 FJ45 close to to stock. Third owner. Runs good. Much rust. Frame is in good shape. Any work I've done to it has been to keep to road worthy, including: brakes master/slaves (drums) fuel pump radiator clutch master/slave split rims powdercoated / Yokohama Y742S 7.50/R16 kuckle...

forum.ih8mud.com

crusty. But a great work truck. Put a rack on the back and a tent platform for sleeping. An f or 2f engine is pretty much a diesel that runs on gas .

 

[georgebj60]

The HJ is the only option if you want an automatic. They are gutless with a manual, and will be more gutless with the auto. As for durability between the 3B and 2H, you'll get too many opinions here to help you out - look for the one that has the most comprehensive maintenance history. This is key.

Your budget of 10K will not get you into a diesel 60 series that is anywhere near ready for daily-driver duties. Double it, and you'll be in the market. I'll say this though - they don't really exist. Canadian trucks have rusted away - it's just a fact of life. If you do find that unicorn, the price will be sky-high. The only one I've seen over many years of looking at these vehicles was a pretty low mileage, rust free unit on BAT (bring-a-trailer). It sold for around 28K USD. It would sell for more now.

Your best bet if you really want one of these, is to buy a rust-free FJ out of somewhere in the US, and a rusted out donor truck local to you with good mechanicals. And marry them. It's a bit of work, but totally doable. It can be a quick 7 day affair, or in my case 2+ years breaking everything down completely and rebuilding to as new again.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I'm following this thread to see where it leads you.

 

[roalco]

Here in Canada, in the 60 series Landcruisers, they went from the 4 cylinder 3B, with the 5 speed manual gearbox, to the 6 cylinder 2H engine with an automatic gearbox in, I believe, 1986. The reason they replaced the heavy duty 3B was that the automatic transmission required much more HP to develop the same performance in a vehicle, and they were trying to appeal to those who only go to the the suburban mall. Unfortunately, the nominal increase in actual HP, 93 for the 3B and just over 100 for the 2H, was not enough to offset that requiered by the automatic transmission to get comparable performance. As well, you had 50% more moving parts, and things like injectors, etc. And don't forget, the 3B in Canada had a 12 volt electrical system (2 X 12 volt batteries in parallel) , whereas the 2H powered trucks had a 12/24 volt hybrid system, with a center tap between providing 12 volts to some items, others being 24 v (this leads to battery imbalance and premature failure.
You will find most people here far prefer the 5 speed manual gearbox over the automatic, and they were predominantly mounted to the 3B. You may find the odd 2H with a factory 5 speed, but they were only offered for a year or two.
That said, engines are good engines (my preference is the 3B due to the design, simplicity and reliability I have experienced with it over the last 500,000), the choice of gearbox is yours, manual if you want control, economy and reliability, auto if not.
Your biggest issue will be finding one that suits your budget, has a solid frame, and the body isn't rusted beyond economical repair.
Over the last 35 years, on my 1984, as a daily driver, I have repaired body rust (it never sleeps...) , replaced the frame (rust, again), done brakes batteries and exhaust systems a few times, even had the gearbox seals replaced. Total engine work on the 3B, a few sets of glow plugs, a new water pump (seized bearing) and a new alternator. I have never even had the head off. It's like the energizer bunny, it just keeps on running!
Bonne Chance!

 

[MarkBC]

Over the last 35 years, on my 1984

So if my math is correct, you are the original owner...

Guess I did good with the 82 bj60 I got last year. Rust is manageable. Its gonna be a beaut. I should have a new job soon which will give me the time and money to get this thing back on the road. Assuming I can find parts from the coronavirus trying to kill us all.

 

[roalco]

Actually, I'm the second owner. I bought it from downtown Toyota (on burrard), the first owner bought it new from them ($19,600) , had it a few months, made a few trips to the interior, and traded it in on a used suburban that had on the lot...
I got it with a full warranty for $16,500, a lot of money then, but the best vehicle I've ever had! No regrets!

 

[OSS]

The only way any of these 35 year old cruisers will "last a lifetime" is if you're 82 years old.

 

[DesRochers]

Thank you so much for you time and answers. If there's one thing that seems to REALLY last a lifetime with the landcruisers it gotta be the community. I think I'll do more research to compare the 3B and 2H.
So far the post that resonate with me the most is from georgebj60. I have one question tho; what do you mean by "They are gutless with a manual, and will be more gutless with the auto." ? It may be my french but I don't understand the meaning of "gutless" in this sentence. Do you mean the 2H automatic are worthless in your opinion ?

 

[hj 60]

I think gutless=slow in this context.
The HJ will last a long time and if you first do the basic maintenance the years will pass fast, then the welding and possible engine rebuild are enough work.
Below is the maintenance manual , might give a good impression about the possible work to do:

 

[MarkBC]

Gutless means it has no power. You put you foot down on the gas pedal and absolutely nothing happens except it gets a bit noisier.

 

[DesRochers]

what do you guys think about buying a hj60 manual with no rust and swapping the transmission for automatic ? do y'all think it would be an option that suits my needs ?

 

[georgebj60]

I'm pretty sure you're the first person to ask about this! Most want to go to the manual from the auto.

I think the axle ratios are different for the autos versus the manual. My manual HJ is 3.70 gears, autos are 4.11, so you would need to swap axles or third members (the gearset portion of the differentials). Driveshafts will be different lengths, the vacuum set up is slightly different. Electrics should mostly be the same. Pedal bucket might be slightly different. The brake pedal is definitely larger on the auto.

As for your needs, I can't really answer that. But the truck will be slow, or gutless as I referred to it in my previous reply. It sounds to me like you really want a Land Cruiser, and are willing to make some concessions for driving a cool truck. Who can argue with that.

 

[DesRochers]

I'm pretty sure you're the first person to ask about this! Most want to go to the manual from the auto.

I think the axle ratios are different for the autos versus the manual. My manual HJ is 3.70 gears, autos are 4.11, so you would need to swap axles or third members (the gearset portion of the differentials). Driveshafts will be different lengths, the vacuum set up is slightly different. Electrics should mostly be the same. Pedal bucket might be slightly different. The brake pedal is definitely larger on the auto.

As for your needs, I can't really answer that. But the truck will be slow, or gutless as I referred to it in my previous reply. It sounds to me like you really want a Land Cruiser, and are willing to make some concessions for driving a cool truck. Who can argue with that.

I bet my taste are a bit marginal, I'm happy to bring on a new subject.

Thanks for the informations.

You're right, I really wanna drive a Land Cruiser, and I am definitely ready to make some concessions.
This being said, I am considering your first idea; marrying an FJ60 with a diesel engine, would I be better off buying one with an allready automatic transmission ? what would be the easiest in term of mechanical work; swaping the engine on an automatic FJ60 or buying a manual fj60 and swap both engine and transmission ?

 

[Seth S]

I bet my taste are a bit marginal, I'm happy to bring on a new subject.

Thanks for the informations.

You're right, I really wanna drive a Land Cruiser, and I am definitely ready to make some concessions.
This being said, I am considering your first idea; marrying an FJ60 with a diesel engine, would I be better off buying one with an allready automatic transmission ? what would be the easiest in term of mechanical work; swaping the engine on an automatic FJ60 or buying a manual fj60 and swap both engine and transmission ?

The least expensive models you are going to find will be the FJ60 sold in the USA. This doesn't mean they sell for cheap just that they are not quite as sought after as the FJ62's. If you are patient you can find a relatively clean 60 or maybe even one with a nice body and frame and a bad engine both lowering the price and having incentive to swap the engine. However an FJ62 is already going to have the automatic and the corresponding axle ratios. At that point you could pull out and sell the 3FE engine, computer, and harness and use that money towards whatever diesel you go with.

Keep an eye on the mud classifieds for both vehicles and engines.

For Sale - 1988 HJ61 $9,000 Oregon its got rust but its got a 12HT, its in your price range and its a diesel.

 

[Seth S]

Even better, you really couldn't go wrong with this one:

For Sale - 1985 FJ60 "HJ60 clone" 12HT, H55F, JDM ...... super clean needs nothing!

Helping one of my best friends sell his cruiser ……... This cruiser started life as a domestic 1985 Fj60 and was converted to a 12Ht/H55f/Split-case ( low mileage combo from Japan ) by Marv Spector; its one of the last trucks he built. At that time Marv also installed number of JDM parts...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[DesRochers]

Even better, you really couldn't go wrong with this one:

For Sale - 1985 FJ60 "HJ60 clone" 12HT, H55F, JDM ...... super clean needs nothing!

Helping one of my best friends sell his cruiser ……... This cruiser started life as a domestic 1985 Fj60 and was converted to a 12Ht/H55f/Split-case ( low mileage combo from Japan ) by Marv Spector; its one of the last trucks he built. At that time Marv also installed number of JDM parts...

forum.ih8mud.com

Thanks for the info, I feel like I'm getting closer to understanding the car I need.
Beautiful car indeed, plus it looks like it would fit my needs.
Sadly does not fit my current wallet tho

 

[georgebj60]

I bet my taste are a bit marginal, I'm happy to bring on a new subject.

Thanks for the informations.

You're right, I really wanna drive a Land Cruiser, and I am definitely ready to make some concessions.
This being said, I am considering your first idea; marrying an FJ60 with a diesel engine, would I be better off buying one with an allready automatic transmission ? what would be the easiest in term of mechanical work; swaping the engine on an automatic FJ60 or buying a manual fj60 and swap both engine and transmission ?

As may have already been mentioned, there are no automatic FJ60's. They are all 4 speed manuals. Your only automatic option from the USA is the FJ62. 1988, 1989, and 1990.

To your question, I assume you want to find a local HJ auto truck to use as the drivetrain donor. If that's the case, I'm pretty sure the HJ uses the same A440F that the FJ62 uses, so that would be the easiest to start with. And having just gone down this route with my truck, I can tell you that my '87 HJ60 was more FJ62 than it was FJ60. There were quite a few small differences between the FJ60 and HJ60. Nothing that can't be overcome, but it would have been a slightly easier swap to start with a 62. That said, I prefer the round headlights and square dash of the FJ60, so ultimately I was happy with my choice.

Now, if you're settled on an FJ62 to start your swap, here are some things to consider:

• HJ60's in Canada are 24V
• the FJ62 is 12V
• earlier (1988) FJ62's had manual windows, and no power locks (this might be easier if you decide to keep the entire HJ harness and convert the truck to 24V - this is what I did)
• later FJ62's had rear headrests and 3-point rear seatbelts. A big plus if you ever need to carry passengers in the back (unfortunately, the early '88 trucks did not have this equipment)

There's a lot more to say on this subject, but this gives you a few things to think about in the meantime. And a lot of this is covered in various threads on the forum. On that, the MUD community is by far your best resource for a project like this. Though I think you've already begun to realize that.