My '64 FJ40 Build - Cave Cricket

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Ok I measured my upper and lower links
My lowers are 48 in long and my upper is 38 in
And upper is mounted forward of lower
This was a trailgear front three link I salvaged out of my rig that burnt With link brackets I made for the dodge 60
My lowers where almost level at ride with the upper
Angled up toward the diff and that rig worked great
Handled well on the road for something on 38.5 boggers and no sway bars and worked awesome in the bush and very little caster change through 14 inches of travel
And my upper does go through the frame rail
The mount as actually recessed into the frame tubing
Trying to gain as much driveshaft room as possible
 
Thanks for the info Tin Basher!

As I worked this past weekend I realized that I could fit my upper pretty close to where I wanted it originally! I had a massive brain fart when mocking everything up prior to my last post, but I got it all in there now. This caused me too much stress and occupied too many of my thoughts last week, so I'm glad it worked out! I forgot to snap a picture of where it sits but it fits well with a decent amount of clearance for gussets.

I'll post my calc sheets later, but looks like my front lowers will end up 33" long, upper 28" long. I have room to shorten it (move mount forward) if needed after cycling, but that's as far back as I can go. I'm not going through the frame, using a bracket instead. Since it's on the passenger side mine too will go up towards axle, lowers nearly flat. Glad to hear yours worked well since it's pretty close to what I had in mind!
 
I am going to be using the NP231 t-case that came out of the Dodge. I originally wanted to do a doubler, ORD Magnum box plus 205 but due to the length plus the cost I decided to abort that for now. Considered hard on doing 241/205 doubler, but the cost is close to the ORD setup but you can't use all 4 gear option for fear of breaking intermediate shaft, plus it's also a long set up. Also considered going standard NP241 but I have a few of these 231s so for now going to stick with it. End goal is to grow into an Atlas in a couple years.

For the record, the Advance Adaptors SYE kit for NP231J does in fact fit/work on the NP231D despite the slight differences inside the case. At least it does for the t-case with the speedo gear on tailhousing. Can't confirm for other design.

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I spent a majority of my weekend (24 hours of it) working on the drivetrain mounts. Don't have a picture of the motor mounts for some reason, but did snap a few of the transmission crossmember.

All mounts are these poly bushings at the frame, set up to allow the drivetrain to twist a little.

It's all set at about a 5 degree angle to the back.

Pretty happy with how the transmission crossmember came out, and super happy with the fitment! Will be a flat belly rig, and this crossmember is up inside the framerails ~1/4". Hopefully this is enough to keep the skid plate from contacting too much under a hard hit.

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Finished out the weekend attaching link mounts to frame and axles. VERY happy with how the rear lower link crossmember/mounts came out, that piece is BEEFY!

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PVC links this weekend if all goes to plan.

New thing I'm worrying about is how to build a 2-piece front driveshaft that won't vibrate and destroy itself immediately. :alien:
 
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That's a way cool build!
 
Got the crossmember welded in today, but unfortunately didn't get the NEW axle lower link mounts today so couldn't do all the PVC links.

BUT, did get a start. Got the uppers mocked, all good so far.

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Also moved the crossmember above the axle back to clear the links.

Front upper mocked, didn't get to the lowers yet though.

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Need a better way to support the front part of the frame before doing the front lower frame mounts because right now the jack stands are right in the way of where the link mounts go and they're kind of the fulcrum for the whole chassis since there's no weight out back right now. Going to have to build something because I'M NOT BUYING ANYMORE JACK STANDS!!!!!
 
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Originally that was the plan but as everything has progressed they moved up. Designing for 75% AS. Will post up all the numbers once everything is set.
 
Well it turns out the new link tabs did deliver yesterday, since the box was small enough they left it in the mailbox instead of coming up to the house like normal! Anyways, got them mounted today!

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1/4" tabs from Ruffstuff

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I decided to ditch the original upper link mount on the axle in favor of regular tabs. I liked the other mount a lot but gained about an inch of up-travel clearance with the regular tabs. It just made more sense since I am putting an interior in this thing.

That's all for this weekend, lots of other stuff going on so I only got a few hours each day to work. Time for MONSTER JAM now!!!
 
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I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that the average temperature for the last 10 days that I've spent in the barn is about 12 degrees F. We had a nice February but ol man winter has come back with a vengeance here! I'm ready for warmer weather!!! (Be sure to remind me of this when I'm complaining it's too hot in the barn this summer!) :rolleyes:

ANYWAYS, below are my calcs for the three and four links. These have evolved over many revisions since I began, but here it is as mocked up in metal. The ONLY thing that is final welded at this point is the rear lower link frame crossmember mounts, everything else it tacked but I do plan to final weld all of it this weekend. That is assuming that I can flex test with the PVC and everything checks out, but at this point I don't expect any issues.

Uptravel on the rear is a hard stop at 6" right now unless I get crazy with the interior. The current limitation will/would be the upper mounts smashing the tub. The front uptravel could be as much as seven inches, but I'll probably limit it to six just to be safe.

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For anti squat in the front (anti dive) I targeted 45, out back I targeted 75. On both ends I have adjustable mounts, so up front I the option of 32, 51 and 67% AS. Out back I'll have the option of 74, 58 and 41% AS. I based my targets on days of research, trying to find advice from guys over here on the East coast primarily. The difficulty is that SO MANY posts are either "search there are millions of threads talking about the best setup already" or someone saying "I have X setup and it works great, although I've never tried anything else..." or even worse, "just put the links wherever they fit and call it a day, that's what I did and my rig works great!" *inserts picture of rig flexing on a stump*, as if that proves something!!! Unfortunately I believe in math WAY TOO MUCH to just "stick them where they fit". ON TOP OF THAT, the "target" for AS has changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. If you go back and read some old threads things have really changed. Likely partly due to an increase in sharing of knowledge (internet/forums), but also from bigger and better rigs, harder trails, etc. So, I don't know if I have the ideal setup, but I know I worked hard to obtain the numbers I set out to. Now that said, I originally wanted to have options of 75, 100 an 125% AS out back but after realistic mock up and some more research decided to go for previously mentioned setup. Fortunately if I ever want to go for higher AS it'll be as simple as adding new upper link mounts on the frame side a little lower - which will actually be pretty easy as I can move them inside the framerails. Not a big deal.

Of course AS isn't the only thing at work on a linked suspension, I paid a lot of attention to the roll center and roll axis. Roll center basically targeting as high as possible, roll axis I tried to keep it negative but not too high (over 5). On the rear I had it a degree lower but during mock up it moved from roughly -4 to -5. On the front -1 was about the best I could do. I had a couple setups that were positive (roll oversteer) and really wanted to avoid that based on the research I did since I do plan to drive this on the road from time to time. I hope -1 will be enough understeer to keep the front compliant at highway speeds. The lower link V has a large impact on this number and realistically I can't really inboard the frame end lowers anymore, nor can I outboard the axle lowers without hurting steering angle. The other parameter which has a large effect is the panhard height so I am going to try to get it as high as possible - it's really my only option. You may notice that in the calc sheet I have the panhard frame end "Z" dimension is highlighted yellow because it is still up in the air as I haven't finished mocking that system up yet. Every inch I raise the panhard is worth roughly -0.25 degrees of roll axis.

Happy Pi day :grinpimp:
 
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It's been a while since I researched link suspensions and all. Now that ultra 4 is so competitive, they in my opinion mostly have their suspensions setup best for all around offroad and high speed stuff. Those same guys you can see vids of them climbing back door and such, and perhaps find on some forums to pick their brain. The going big guy you could likely ask on pirate what his numbers are or he may have them documented in his thread. You could also ask the crawlorado guy, he is pretty serious into racing/crawling with his 40 and you could contact. You could also ask Mace here, he has a linked cruiser. Purple top garage seems to have their linked cruisers well dialed in from moab vids on YouTube. Also u could ask rusty nail Justin on here, he races KOH. Anyway just giving u ideas for sources for questions. Maybe u already explored them. Off the top of my head your as numbers seem pretty good from what little I know. This is the reason I stuck with leafs, I just couldn't put in all the time for research and complete the fab in the shop time I had alloted. Your cruiser is going to be really nice.
 
What are you running for steering ?
You want your track bar to be as close to same length and angle as drag link
So they travel in the same arc or you get bad bump steer
Your not going to have the issues with driveshaft clearing upper link as I do mines on same side as driveshaft
 
It's been a while since I researched link suspensions and all. Now that ultra 4 is so competitive, they in my opinion mostly have their suspensions setup best for all around offroad and high speed stuff. Those same guys you can see vids of them climbing back door and such, and perhaps find on some forums to pick their brain. The going big guy you could likely ask on pirate what his numbers are or he may have them documented in his thread. You could also ask the crawlorado guy, he is pretty serious into racing/crawling with his 40 and you could contact. You could also ask Mace here, he has a linked cruiser. Purple top garage seems to have their linked cruisers well dialed in from moab vids on YouTube. Also u could ask rusty nail Justin on here, he races KOH. Anyway just giving u ideas for sources for questions. Maybe u already explored them. Off the top of my head your as numbers seem pretty good from what little I know. This is the reason I stuck with leafs, I just couldn't put in all the time for research and complete the fab in the shop time I had alloted. Your cruiser is going to be really nice.

Thanks for the input! I definitely agree, the top U4 guys have things figured out. Watching their vehicles work it's easy to see who has their suspension tuned and who doesn't! That said, I wonder just how much they compromise the crawl setup for high speed. It interests me because I'd imagine they have to give up some crawl to go fast. A pre-runner doesn't rock crawl well, or vise versa.

Anyways, we'll put it together and wheel it and if it sucks change it! I am looking forward to at minimum try out the different setups I can have by moving the upper links!
 
What are you running for steering ?
You want your track bar to be as close to same length and angle as drag link
So they travel in the same arc or you get bad bump steer
Your not going to have the issues with driveshaft clearing upper link as I do mines on same side as driveshaft

Yea that's a great point, and I guess I wasn't very clear in my post. I'll of course be targeting as parallel setup as possible.

As for steering I am thinking about going with a GM Y link kit from Ruffstuff. Not set on a pump yet, but definitely hydro assist. I do not want heims based on past experiences, and also want to mount on top of the existing steering arm as opposed to the bottom - keeps it out of the s*** a little better plus more clearance in regards to diff cover. In addition it'll keep the steering linkage from box flatter without having to run a crazy drop arm, this will help me run a high panhard.

It's crazy how much goes into building a vehicle, let alone one that works well. I find myself talking to friends and family only to have them stare blankly at me from total lack of interest or ability to follow along. Oh well, I enjoy it!
 
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Monthly update time!

The links are built, and WOW are the lowers beefy! I swear they are suitable for a monster truck!!

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To recap, I'd bought the threaded inserts and link ends a long time ago on one of those big sales, I think maybe it was black Friday? Anyways, I ordered the DOM at my local Alro and was shocked at how reasonable it was priced, even considering I bought way too much it was still less than the link ends!

The upper links are 1.75" OD 0.250" wall DOM, and the lowers are 2.25" OD 0.375" wall DOM. Huge! The link ends are 1.25"-12tpi for the lowers and 1"-14tpi for the uppers.

I was a little nervous about welding the inserts in because I was worrried about damaging the thread and getting the super pricey link end stuck in halfway. I'd considered buying taps to clean the threads after welding but didn't because what would I do with a $100 1.25" left handed tap after this week? NOTHING! What about the RH thread one, or the two 1" that I'd need for the upper links, NOTHING! Fortunately they all thread in nice and smooth! :cool:

Here's how I did the inserts. With my angle grinder I beveled the edge to resemble the insert so that there was a "V" to weld in. I ended up welding about a quarter way around, then rolling the link 180 degrees and welding another quarter, and then filled in the last two quarters. I would have liked to do on continuous weld but couldn't find a consistent way to roll the link while welding without going to fast or slow.

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Onto working on the panhard bar now. The plan is to reuse the one from the Ram - it is a Thuren Fab track bar that I'd installed on it way back. It is a nice piece. Because I want to reuse it, I am going to have to ditch the frame side mount that I bought previously. I'd thought I bought one that would work, but it is the wrong width and wrong bolt size! :confused: Whatever!

After some heavy eyeballing, 12 oz of Redbull, lots of pacing and a hour of holding the panhard about where I think it'll go I ended up with these for the frame side mount.

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I know, I know, I have to match the angle and length of the panhard with the steering but this is just for mock up at this point. I had to start somewhere, right? Speaking of which, still thinking hard on what to do for a steering box and still researching OTK options for my setup...and not really coming up with anything. :slap:
 
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