Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (7 Viewers)

[GLTHFJ60]

Well I just found the throttle linkage I am gonna run.
Thanks Johhny.

No problem Stevo! I had the same thought when I saw this cable in djinn's thread.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I need help making some expensive decisions. The two things I've decided on are the motor and transmission. However, that's where my decisions end.

I've found an extremely low mileage ( < 500 ) Dodge NV4500 that I can get for less than $1500. The problem with this is that it has a 29 spline output, which was never offered, aftermarket or otherwise, for the NP203. Therefore, I see two main options:

1. It would cost me somewhere around $1000 to get the 32 spline output installed. I then run the NP203 I have, buy the $600 adapter from 203 to split case, change driveshaft lengths and I'm good to go. I fab up a cross member and this brings me to somewhere around $3200. 203 to split case adapter is about 2 months out in production schedule.

2. Keep the tranny output the way it is, buy a Dana 300 and run it. Somewhere down the line, I can buy upgraded shafts and 4:1 low range kit at a later date. However, this would require that I run a centered rear axle, such as a 14 bolt. If I wanted to keep my same wheels and tires, I'd have to have the hubs machined ( $$? ), then figure out brakes, get a new rear locker and figure out an e-brake. Cost has potential to be less, but there is more figuring out stuff.

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Why not just run the dana 300 with your toyota axles?
It is possible to run offset axles with a centered t case I remember reading a thread on it somewhere.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Why not just run the dana 300 with your toyota axles?
It is possible to run offset axles with a centered t case I remember reading a thread on it somewhere.

Is it really? Even if I could do that as a temporary solution to put some cushion time between the drive line install and the centered rear axle install, that would be amazing.

Can you find that thread?

 

[hman913]

With the 29 spline output 4500, you could toss in a North West Fab BlackBox. They offer one in a 29 spline flavor. They also have a box for a Cruiser t-case, but no info on their website.

You could definitely run a D300 with a Cruiser rear axle. As long as your driveshaft u-joints don't bind, there's very little to worry about. The truck isn't your daily driver, though it may be more of one once you complete the 4BT swap. If you go that route, toss a couple extra u-joints in your truck.

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

As was mentioned, the driveshaft doesn't notice which direction it is being offset, just check for binding and as long as it doesn't you should be all set.

here was one of the threads I was thinking of:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/610327-running-divorced-offset-tcase.html

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Chris and Stevo, you guys are awesome. That'll be the plan then. Run the center rear output tcase until I can build and install a centered rear axle.

Here's another thing to throw into the mix. Dana 300 or NP 205?

I'm still searching...

EDIT:

Looks like you can get a 4:1 kit for the D300, only a 3:1 for the NP205. NP205 from a 89-93 Dodge Cummins 5 speed bolts up to the NV4500 and has a 29 spline input, but weighs ~2x what the D300 weighs.

D300 is winning so far.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Chris and Stevo, you guys are awesome. That'll be the plan then. Run the center rear output tcase until I can build and install a centered rear axle.

Here's another thing to throw into the mix. Dana 300 or NP 205?

I'm still searching...

EDIT:

Looks like you can get a 4:1 kit for the D300, only a 3:1 for the NP205. I can't find a 29 spline input for the NP205 and it doesn't look like a bolt-up to the NV4500 like the D300.

D300 is winning so far.

If you are going to do a D300, why not just do an Atlas? Just watch out that with any of these center out put t-cases, the output is really high and you need to account for that. The output comes out on the same axis as the crankshaft for planning purposes.

You sure you don't want to just run a split case at least for now? When you change to 1 tons later you can just sell the split case adapter and likely get most of your money back.

When are you buying an 80?

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

You can get a 29 spline input for the np205.
Or just look for one that came out of a first gen cummins truck that had the getrag trans it will have a 29 spline input. It will bolt right on the NV4500.
The NP205 is a solid case, I was beating on a parts case with a sledgehammer and it shrugged it off.

check out quad4x4.com
or give offroaddesign a call they might have some

 

[GLTHFJ60]

If you are going to do a D300, why not just do an Atlas? Just watch out that with any of these center out put t-cases, the output is really high and you need to account for that. The output comes out on the same axis as the crankshaft for planning purposes.

You sure you don't want to just run a split case at least for now? When you change to 1 tons later you can just sell the split case adapter and likely get most of your money back.

When are you buying an 80?

Good call on the higher output of center rear output tcases. I'll have to make sure to keep that in account when figuring out my angles.

So this NV4500 I found is a great deal, but the deal would be ruined if I had to swap out the main shaft for a 32 spline output. If I got a Chevy NV4500 to get the 32 spline output, I'd have to buy the much more expensive flywheel and clutch assembly, which would destroy any cost savings ( $1500 flywheel ). That's why I'm looking at cheaper options, hence the D300 / NP205 route.

If I bought an atlas, it'd have to be the 4 speed unit ( which I would love ) but I don't have $4k to drop on a transfer case right now.

I'm gonna buy an 80 with a bad motor, then swap in a Cummins drivetrain as soon as I have a real shop

You can get a 29 spline input for the np205.
Or just look for one that came out of a first gen cummins truck that had the getrag trans it will have a 29 spline input. It will bolt right on the NV4500.
The NP205 is a solid case, I was beating on a parts case with a sledgehammer and it shrugged it off.

check out quad4x4.com
or give offroaddesign a call they might have some

Thanks for the info Stevo! I was apparently not searching in the right places.

After doing some more research into the NP205, I'm finding that there aren't any low range gear kits for the NP205. If I did a doubler and NP205 without any low gear kit, then I'd be at the same final drive as with a D300 with the 4:1 gears.

For that reason, in addition to the D300 being lighter ( less strain on NV tail housing ), I think I'm going with the D300.

 

[1974FJ]

is your mind numb?

sweet deal on the nv4500HD!

whats the rear axle width you would like to retain? im just thinking ahead on your rear axle build.

 

[1974FJ]

my centered cruiser axle with newer toyota shafts measure 58" WMS to WMS. allowing you to run the elocker and chromo shafts later........and disc brakes. There are several tcase mounted ebrakes out there for the dana300, or you could use the supra rear calipers that have the ebrake arm.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

is your mind numb?

sweet deal on the nv4500HD!

whats the rear axle width you would like to retain? im just thinking ahead on your rear axle build.

So many options!!! My brain hurts

My front axle is going to be this wide, which I believe makes me 64" WMS-WMS:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=3387593&postcount=65

That's the width I intend to run in the rear, maybe even an inch or two narrower.

my centered cruiser axle with newer toyota shafts measure 58" WMS to WMS. allowing you to run the elocker and chromo shafts later........and disc brakes. There are several tcase mounted ebrakes out there for the dana300, or you could use the supra rear calipers that have the ebrake arm.

Here's what I'm thinking. I've got a FZJ80 rear axle housing laying around, so I'm thinking that we use the FZJ80 outers. That'll give me rear disks, with internal drums for the e-brake. We take that, a center section, and some machined DOM tubing, and we can make a centered FZJ80 rear axle in whatever width we want.

That is option one, and option two is to just buy a C&C 14 bolt rear, use this bracket kit with the anti-wrap bar kit I already have, to put it under the rig:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/14COMKT.html

What do you think, custom Toyota centered FZJ80 rear axle or a 14 bolt?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Took the day off from work so I could go shopping for truck parts. 5.5 hours of driving today yielded me a beautiful, re-manufactured 4BT cylinder head as well as a Dana 300. $300 + fuel for the day got me all of this stuff! Pretty good day all in all.

You only get to see the bottom:

D300 needs to be freshened up, but spins and shifts freely:

D300 is puny compared to the NP203!!!

 

[hman913]

FF 14 bolt. Less labor/time intensive than a Toyota. If you're thinking about doing it, and/or planning on it down the road, you'd be wise to build the 14 bolt now versus spending the money twice.

My $0.02

 

[hman913]

I was wondering how long it would take before you posted up about the D300. Nice scores.

 

[darwink1]

If you go the 14 bolt route save yourself some frustration and get a shave kit for it. I get hung up on mine even after shaving the bottom as much as I thought was safe.... Pretty indestructible axle though if you can get past how low it hangs.

D

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

For a 4BT I think you would be ok running the FZJ80 axle. Also the diff on the FZJ80 axles is almost centered to begin with. I would just swap your internals over.

Keeping it stock would be an easy swap, I have a leaf converted FZJ80 axle laying around. If you were planning on taking a trip up to NY anytime soon I would save it for you.

That way if you find yourself blowing through axles you wouldn't have tons of time invested and the 14 bolt swap could commence.
A 14 Bolt is a way overkill axle, I doubt even my 6BT will hurt it.
Ground clearance is awful on them though, I need to measure how much I have running my 43's.

 

[1974FJ]

i like the toyota axle option. you keep it toyota between the front and rear axle and you can use that elocker you have. I think the time and effort involved to make it centered and the width you want is all part of the addiction of what we/you are doing. And, its unique....
the C&C 14 bolt is huge! its got very large drum brakes that would need to be removed for discs. Also, the 14 bolt will be 8 lugs, so new wheels?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Also, the 14 bolt will be 8 lugs, so new wheels?

So this is THE problem. You need to consider an 8 lug up front or a custom 6 bolt hub in the rear. You need to have the same pattern front and rear or else carry 2 spares. That's a pain.

Personally, I think it would be better long term to go to a D60 up front to match your 14 bolt rear. Then you have an overkill axle and can forget about breakage. Until you are ready to do that, probably best to stay with Toyota until you break them.