misfire shake down trip work (250K) (2 Viewers)

[landcruiser3DP]

legends,
i've been slowly working though my 80 and had to go visit family this summer in new england. long story short is i am going to be doing some work up here before heading back to texas and was wondering if anyone wouldn't mind helping out or eyeballing things as they progress.
long story short is the truck has always burned oil but i never found the time to change plugs or diagnose compression/leak down test or figure out if it was doing this more on acceleration (rings) or more on deceleration (spark plug tube seals i think).
mostly because things have been crazy busy and i have been chasing miscellaneous problems and taking care of suspension.
anyway in louisiana i got a cylinder #5 misfire after really gunning it a multiple times on really windy hilly roads over a period of time (p0305) trying to get past a truck.
so i got some help since i haven't really worked in the engine yet and we changed out 1, 2 and 5 (with iridium plugs that i plan to change out for colder running copper core). 3, 4 and 6 were thought to be too tight to mess with until i got to where i am now. so i cleared the code.
all three plugs that came out had a ton of carbon on them.
then in west virginia i got carried away because it was tracking so well and really was gunning it (not too over the top but really running it over a whole day) in the hills in kentucky and west virginia. then she eventually gave me a p0302 which was a misfire in cylinder 2 for a plug that had 1,000 miles or less on it and came out looking like it had some oil on it but normal otherwise.
i believe i may have some mechanical help up here and i worked for a dealership in the area at one time so i basically have "internet pricing" if that makes sense but i would also save on shipping so it kind of makes sense to do work here. plus of course i need to get home.
-> i should note that when i kept it at under 2,500 rpm i haven't had any problems.
i've got a couple things i am planning to do but i was hoping for some eyeballs and advice. my mom is ailing (really the reason for the visit) so i'm hoping folks can keep it positive and copacetic.
things to do:
1. get someone to follow me to see if we can determine if it is rings or spark plug tube seals.
2. do compression/leak down.
3. replace radiator with copper core (i might not replace the hoses since supposedly they were done within the last 50K before i got the rig but again i have good pricing so maybe i will).
4. pull all spark plugs and replace with cold running copper core (NGK BLR6EYA-11 "colder" and gap to 0.81mm).
5. replace spark plug wiring but this also supposedly was replaced within the last 50K. test wires for resistance later when i get home.
6. new distributor cap (also supposedly done on the last 50K).
7. do the head gasket.
8. check the harness for fraying (it's was fine a year ago).
9. check the plug wires for fraying (supposedly replaced under 50K ago).
10. inspect the fusible link at the battery (for some reason i don't understand).
not sure if i am missing anything.
-
i'm working my way through a larger parts list with the idea of having some of it shipped back to me. and i would like to do anything that makes sense to do now.
one thing i have to admit is i can't quite visualize what is involved in a head gasket job or how that relates to inspecting the rings and the cylinder walls and the valve seats but i guess i would know up front it i need to go that far up here based upon the compression/leak down numbers?
-> meaning if compression/leak down looks good i can be sure i am probably doing jsit head gasket? but if they don't look good i know i am probably in for "pulling the head" and sending it out to a competent machinist?
i will also say the engine feels really strong to me. and it tracks great. but obviously i need to dig into it a bit.
anyway any positive vibes and technical expertise elude be welcome.
happy to take more pictures or supply more info as needed.
THANKS!
i'll post more pics in a bit when my connection is better. one other note is the other thing i noticed is the 5 and 6 wires seem to travel under that plastic harness and that in working up in here (and leaving off the cover last time i replaced a plug) i may not have them organized properly.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

 

[CharlieS]

Sorry about you mom. Hope everything turns out okay.

Maybe baseline with all 6 plugs, cap and rotor to begin with. Plug wires maybe since you get a break on prices. Check the timing to make sure you are around 3 degrees btdc at idle with the diagnostic jumper in place. This feels like the minimum to me.

I'd just use the stock spark plugs. A set is like $6.

Spark plug seals would probably manifest as oil in your plug tubes. They get hard and brittle over time. If you tackle those, you'll be doing a valve cover gasket and intake gasket, maybe even plenum gaskets depending upon how you go at it (cleaning passages, etc).

Doing a head gasket is a big job, and based on some of your questions, may be kind of advanced for where you're at. It is a reasonably big job and takes some knowhow. I wouldn't want to do one on a road trip unless it was an emergency.

Good luck!

 

[robnicko]

a few questions,
- how many miles / kms on the motor?
- what grade oil are you using & syn or Dino?
- do you get any smoke out the tailpipe on cold startup?
- after coasting downhill and then accelerating do you get a puff of smoke out the back (valve stem seals)?
- check the PCValve to ensure its not stuck closed and operating correctly

Spark plug wise you should try NGK BKR5EYA-11 std offering or BKR6EYA-11 (colder option)

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Doing a head gasket is a big job, and based on some of your questions, may be kind of advanced for where you're at. It is a reasonably big job and takes some knowhow.

@landcruiser3DP blocked me on facebook for saying this too him

 

[CharlieS]

@landcruiser3DP blocked me on facebook for saying this too him

i'd rather be honest and help them avoid getting in over their head than lead them into something that they will regret, especially since it seems like they have a lot going on family-wise. If they block me, so be it.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

i'd rather be honest and help them avoid getting in over their head than lead them into something that they will regret, especially since it seems like they have a lot going on family-wise. If they block me, so be it.

I completely agree with you. I just think it's funny.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I completely agree with you. I just think it's funny.

just message me privately if you have an issue please.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

a few questions,
- how many miles / kms on the motor?
- what grade oil are you using & syn or Dino?
- do you get any smoke out the tailpipe on cold startup?
- after coasting downhill and then accelerating do you get a puff of smoke out the back (valve stem seals)?
- check the PCValve to ensure its not stuck closed and operating correctly

Spark plug wise you should try NGK BKR5EYA-11 std offering or BKR6EYA-11 (colder option)

thanks man. i had a bit of a time with spark plugs to be honest. i actually pulled an iridium plug that was 1,000 miles old after getting a code in that cylinder and though there was some kind of degradation at the electrode.
5 is the stock plug and 6 is the colder option (meaning it is happier in a hot engine)?
i'm using like 15W40 blended Rotella.
250K.
i do get smoke out of tailpipe on cold startup. but i smell it more than i see it honestly.
i haven't had a chance to have anyone trail me. but i've noticed i can smell it real good with the hatch open so i was thinking to test it if i get some head space.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Sorry about you mom. Hope everything turns out okay.

Maybe baseline with all 6 plugs, cap and rotor to begin with. Plug wires maybe since you get a break on prices. Check the timing to make sure you are around 3 degrees btdc at idle with the diagnostic jumper in place. This feels like the minimum to me.

I'd just use the stock spark plugs. A set is like $6.

Spark plug seals would probably manifest as oil in your plug tubes. They get hard and brittle over time. If you tackle those, you'll be doing a valve cover gasket and intake gasket, maybe even plenum gaskets depending upon how you go at it (cleaning passages, etc).

Doing a head gasket is a big job, and based on some of your questions, may be kind of advanced for where you're at. It is a reasonably big job and takes some knowhow. I wouldn't want to do one on a road trip unless it was an emergency.

Good luck!

thanks man.
the plan right now is to do work with help or if i get a cut in labor even at the dealership. i'd only do most of this work at home with access to my old tacoma. and lots of online help.
what i would do up here is have a competent mechanic do the work, i order parts, and i'd help out.
part of the problem i am having - 1. well i am starting to wonder if finally doing a compression and a leak down test will actually answer for me whether i do in fact need to do a head gasket now?
2. spark plug tube seals get done when i do head gasket?
3. i don't quite get on a head gasket how you determine if you need to do valve seats or rings or - well i guess on a head gasket you pull the head anyway so it is going off to the machinist is that it?

 

[CharlieS]

I don't have many of the answers, but I do know that you don't need to do a head gasket to do the spark plug tube seals, only the valve cover gasket.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Sorry about you mom. Hope everything turns out okay.

Maybe baseline with all 6 plugs, cap and rotor to begin with. Plug wires maybe since you get a break on prices. Check the timing to make sure you are around 3 degrees btdc at idle with the diagnostic jumper in place. This feels like the minimum to me.

I'd just use the stock spark plugs. A set is like $6.

Spark plug seals would probably manifest as oil in your plug tubes. They get hard and brittle over time. If you tackle those, you'll be doing a valve cover gasket and intake gasket, maybe even plenum gaskets depending upon how you go at it (cleaning passages, etc).

Doing a head gasket is a big job, and based on some of your questions, may be kind of advanced for where you're at. It is a reasonably big job and takes some knowhow. I wouldn't want to do one on a road trip unless it was an emergency.

Good luck!

yeah thanks for this.
i'm just trying to explore options. and also see if i can get some of the smarter folks to armchair diagnose what i have going on. really the plan was to buy parts here and bring them back and do it at home but even that i am deciding may not be realistic based upon what i have going on.
someone said they felt it was head gasket but the truck feels great to me except i suppose if i really hammer it i am getting codes. but if it is the head gasket going it seems odd to do a 2,000 mile return trip. i mean i could and keep it at 2,000 rpm and 60mph i suppose. but i still would need to do the eoek and i am not so sure how much time i have to do it myself i am starting to realize. like it's not a good time to have to do it myself so i would pay someone to do it and get it over with.
anyway what am i calling the upper portion with the cam? and what am i calling the lower portion with the cylinders? one of them is the head yeah?
do i need to do head gasket to do spark plug tube seals? meaning i need to get that far into it to do spark plug tube seals?

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I don't have many of the answers, but I do know that you don't need to do a head gasket to do the spark plug tube seals, only the valve cover gasket.

thanks a lot charlie.
so maybe it is plugs, wires, valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seals if the compression test comes back good? and drive it back.
then head gasket (and other engine work if needed) if it doesn't?

 

[CharlieS]

The part with the cams is the top of the head, covered with a valve cover. The spark plug seals are in the valve cover. There is a valve cover gasket between the valve cover and the head.

The cylinders ride in the head. The head has a gasket (head gasket) below it between it and the bottom end where the crankshaft lives.

If you have a blown head gasket, you'd most likely have oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Either way, you have chocolate milkshake.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

just message me privately if you have an issue please.

No issue here

 

[robnicko]

thanks man. i had a bit of a time with spark plugs to be honest. i actually pulled an iridium plug that was 1,000 miles old after getting a code in that cylinder and though there was some kind of degradation at the electrode.
5 is the stock plug and 6 is the colder option (meaning it is happier in a hot engine)?
i'm using like 15W40 blended Rotella.
250K.
i do get smoke out of tailpipe on cold startup. but i smell it more than i see it honestly.
i haven't had a chance to have anyone trail me. but i've noticed i can smell it real good with the hatch open so i was thinking to test it if i get some head space.

sounds like your valve stem seals are a likely culprit. take note at night when a car is behind you at a stop and then when you take off if you see smoke misting in the side rear view mirror.

at higher rpm they are under more stress to keep oil in as well

 

[landcruiser3DP]

The part with the cams is the top of the head, covered with a valve cover. The spark plug seals are in the valve cover. There is a valve cover gasket between the valve cover and the head.

The cylinders ride in the head. The head has a gasket (head gasket) below it between it and the bottom end where the crankshaft lives.

If you have a blown head gasket, you'd most likely have oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Either way, you have chocolate milkshake.

thanks.
sorry i have worked on horizontally opposed 2 cylinders but i get tripped up on this.
1. so it is valve cover, head and then bottom end i guess?
2. you can do the spark plug tube seals by just doing a valve cover gasket?
3. the head comes off (of the bottom end) any time you do a head gasket?
no oil in the coolant. it's bright green.
and the radiator doesn't leak.
i mean for the longest time i just expected to add oil until i could get to the whole thing. ans i guess i would still be thinking this if i don't throw two cylinder misfire codes when running it super hard? one with an old plug and one with a newer 1,000 mile old plug?
i did that little bypass with the resistor for the p0320 code i think it was? thinking i would i clean the throttle body when i did head gasket.
she runs really strong at least as far as i can tell. i was really hammering it on some steep hills for a full day of driving.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

sounds like your valve stem seals are a likely culprit. take note at night when a car is behind you at a stop and then when you take off if you see smoke misting in the side rear view mirror.

at higher rpm they are under more stress to keep oil in as well

i have been kind of hoping valve stem seals and i figured i would just methodically take the head - and also "bottom end if needed? - to a machine shop and do it all right once.
but i am getting cylinder misfire codes when running it hard?
you think the spark plugs are getting fouled somehow?

 

[landcruiser3DP]

No issue here

seems like it to me. why bring a totally different forum over here otherwise? offer is open to communicate offline. i tend to like to be direct and not leave any misunderstanding especially if i offended someone inadvertently.

 

[robnicko]

i have been kind of hoping valve stem seals and i figured i would just methodically take the head - and also "bottom end if needed? - to a machine shop and do it all right once.
but i am getting cylinder misfire codes when running it hard?
you think the spark plugs are getting fouled somehow?

if your stem seals are leaking oil then it can pre ignite causing a misfire

you guys are experiencing very hot weather at the moment so any of these issues will be more evident as a result

take your plugs out and put in the factory recommended (denso / ngk) and see how you go. Post some pics of the old ones too?

I only run a colder (NGKBKR6EYA-11) plug as my car has LPG otherwise would use the std 5 range