Builds mcgaskins' 2016 build thread - Ruby (2 Viewers)

[mcgaskins]

I mounted the Maxtrax on the roof with their universal mounting pin set. I drilled through the factory cross bars because I don’t really have a need for an aftermarket roof rack, and if I’m being honest I’m not a fan of them due to wind noise. I’m the most sensitive person I know to any creaks, rattles, squeaks, squeals, etc. and I have not found a silent rack yet other than OEM. Oh and I also have a full OEM rack in the crawlspace if I jack this one up. Fortunately it turned out just fine and clears the garage door at home by roughly half an inch I’ll add some small locks onto the pins and get some rubber caps for the bottom of the exposed bolts. Very pleased with how low profile it is, and best of all it’s totally silent even with the sunroof open.

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To answer a question I received regarding the height of the truck with the Maxtrax, the truck measures 82.5" at the highest point which is the top of Maxtrax mounting pin.

Regarding the noise, I did a quick unscientific test with a free decibel monitor on my phone after the Maxtrax were mounted. I had a new loaner Lexus IS250 last week and compared it to the LX570 and LC. Over the same stretch of road with the cruise set at 70mph, the LX was 1 db louder than the IS and the LC was 2 db louder than the LX. All are very quiet, but I was very surprised the LC is as quiet as it is considering all of the aftermarket mods/tires and worse than stock aerodynamics.

 

[SQRRRL]

Speaking of which does anyone (preferably in SoCal) have any stock crossbars that they no longer need?

I may have two pairs for sale soon. Im looking at another solution and will know in the next week or two.
Contact me if interested.

 

[RET2]

I may have two pairs for sale soon. Im looking at another solution and will know in the next week or two.
Contact me if interested.

PM me back if and when with price and location, Thx

 

[mcgaskins]

I've had some questions about how much lift I have on the truck, so I measured mine at a local Toyota dealership next to a stock new one. Spoiler alert for those who like short answers - my lift is roughly 2.25" related to the suspension and 1.75" related to tires (see chart at the bottom). A caveat - a stock truck sits about 1.75" higher in back than in front, but mine sits level front/back after the lift. I have about 10mm of preload on the front coilovers and 2722 springs in the back.

Stock truck - front end, ground to top of fender = 35"

Modified truck - front end, ground to top of fender = 39"

Stock truck - front end, middle of hub to top of fender = 20.5"

Modified truck - front end, middle of hub to top of fender = 22.75"

Stock truck - rear end, ground to top of fender = 36.75"

Modified truck - rear end, ground to top of fender = 39"

Stock truck - tailgate, ground to bottom of "Land Cruiser" emblem = 42"

Modified truck - tailgate, ground to bottom of "Land Cruiser" emblem = 43.5"

Stock truck - front camera, ground to middle of lens = 35"

Modified truck - front camera, ground to middle of lens = 39"

Stock truck - ground to bottom of driver's door handle = just barely under 41"

Modified truck - ground to bottom of driver's door handle = nearly 45"

As you can see by this table, the overall lift (4") varies by location of where you measure - part of the lift comes from the suspension swap (2.25") and the other part comes from the increase in tire diameter (1.75").

 

[TonyP]

Keep in mind these numbers will differ also due to tire size. Another away to measure is from the center of the hub to the fender.

 

[mcgaskins]

Keep in mind these numbers will differ also due to tire size. Another away to measure is from the center of the hub to the fender.

Did you look at the pics and table @TonyP ? I did measure that way as well as a few others for a comprehensive reading.

 

[TonyP]

Yeah the internet here sucks, only one pic was showing up...
Carry on

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks, Matt. Good info. After my more modest lift (or heavier truck @6500#) all 4 of my hubcap to fender measurements are at 21”. (OME 2700/2721). If I do a front bumper I will of course do stronger springs up front.

 

[mcgaskins]

Thanks, Matt. Good info. After my more modest lift (or heavier truck @6500#) all 4 of my hubcap to fender measurements are at 21”. (OME 2700/2721). If I do a front bumper I will of course do stronger springs up front.

I need to get over to a scale and see how much the truck weighs actually. I have a feeling I'm on the lighter end of most of the built trucks on this site, but there's only way to find out!

 

[mcgaskins]

Thanks, Matt. Good info. After my more modest lift (or heavier truck @6500#) all 4 of my hubcap to fender measurements are at 21”. (OME 2700/2721). If I do a front bumper I will of course do stronger springs up front.

I need to get over to a scale and see how much the truck weighs actually. I have a feeling I'm on the lighter end of most of the built trucks on this site, but there's only way to find out!

Decided to satisfy some curiosity and go get the truck weighed at lunch at the same CAT scale I weighed the Tacoma on a couple months ago. The "stock" weight of the truck according to a google search is 5,815 pounds, but I'm a little skeptical of that number. I don't think it includes any fuel (perhaps any fluids?), and it still seems a touch on the light side. Anyone with a stock truck (particularly a 16+) willing to go to a CAT scale and get it weighed full of gas? @Mendocino what do you say?

I filled up the gas tank and was sitting the truck while it was weighed, and it came in at 6,760. Deducting me and the fuel in the truck would take it down to ~6,460. The only material weight I've added includes the sliders, drawers (and the tools/gear inside), fridge, tires, battery/bracket/wiring, and rear bumper, but some of that has been offset by removing the factory tires, running boards, third row seats and seat belts. It would be an interesting exercise to quantify what each of those changes means in terms of weight change, but a good proxy would be just getting a stock truck loaded with fluids weighed.

It does make me wonder how some trucks like @Markuson and @indycole are handling the extra weight which IIRC are ~8,000 pounds. Curious what you guys think about how the truck handles at that weight?

Also merely for kicks/reference, here is what the Tacoma weighed fully built with about 26 gallons of fuel and me in the driver's seat. Not nearly as big of a difference as I expected considering how much lighter a stock Tacoma is over a stock 200:

 

[Markuson]

Decided to satisfy some curiosity and go get the truck weighed at lunch at the same CAT scale I weighed the Tacoma on a couple months ago. The "stock" weight of the truck according to a google search is 5,815 pounds, but I'm a little skeptical of that number. I don't think it includes any fuel (perhaps any fluids?), and it still seems a touch on the light side. Anyone with a stock truck (particularly a 16+) willing to go to a CAT scale and get it weighed full of gas? @Mendocino what do you say?

I filled up the gas tank and was sitting the truck while it was weighed, and it came in at 6,760. Deducting me and the fuel in the truck would take it down to ~6,460. The only material weight I've added includes the sliders, drawers (and the tools/gear inside), fridge, tires, battery/bracket/wiring, and rear bumper, but some of that has been offset by removing the factory tires, running boards, third row seats and seat belts. It would be an interesting exercise to quantify what each of those changes means in terms of weight change, but a good proxy would be just getting a stock truck loaded with fluids weighed.

It does make me wonder how some trucks like @Markuson and @indycole are handling the extra weight which IIRC are ~8,000 pounds. Curious what you guys think about how the truck handles at that weight?

Also merely for kicks/reference, here is what the Tacoma weighed fully built with about 26 gallons of fuel and me in the driver's seat. Not nearly as big of a difference as I expected considering how much lighter a stock Tacoma is over a stock 200:

You can definitely feel the weight. It’s also noticeably different when I’m near empty vs 48 gallons of fuel (2nd 24 gallon LRA).

Recent rear swingout removal was interesting though, because the difference was pretty dramatic...partly because it made my 2725 heavy rear springs super stiff—and with that stiffness came amazingly roll-free handling.

Also worth noting...
There was a VERY clear improvement to handling when I added 0.75” Bora spacers to my 35’s on a rock Warriors! I mean like major improvement. I did not expect this...but it was immediately better in turns, and completely elimination tire squeal on sweeping highway on-ramps, for example.
It seems to be THE sweet-spot for 50mm offset and 12.5” wide tires to get that extra 1.5” track width increase.

My biggest problem is the delay in getting my 4.88 regear as I feel the weight mostly in power terms. While my monster does remarkably well considering it’s heft, 4.88’s will be where everything changes.

 

[linuxgod]

Short answer is that the fat pig rides like a dream (IMO)

I need to go weigh without my trailer, but with my trailer, the family, and all of our gear it I was at about 8280#:

3460# front
4620# rear
8080# gross truck
+200# for my wife and older son, who weren't in the truck when it was weighed
8280#

5200# trailer axles
~770# tongue weight
5970# trailer gross

Also my cooler was mostly empty, and so was my 4gal rotopax, so another ~100# there. Tongue weight on my trailer was 770# when I checked it last, but that trip I had full black and gray tanks, which sit above or slightly behind the trailer axle... so that should remove a little weight from the tongue, but might be made up for with all the extra crap we had in the trailer when traveling across country for 2.5 weeks.

 

[tarheel40]

@mcgaskins - I really like the comparisons of your cruiser to a stock one, helpful to look at some real world numbers in detail especially as I'm about to upgrade the suspension on my 2016. A couple of things I thought were interesting, especially comparing those numbers to my LC:

-The stock rear coils must settle a fair amount, as the rear fender height of 36.75" on the stock LC you measured is higher than my drivers side rear fender (~36.3") and just under my passenger rear fender (37") and I've got 275/70r18s which should put me about 1" over stock. I've got 26,000 miles on the coils so it makes sense they would settle some but an inch seems like a lot for a 2 year old vehicle.

-Did you look at the cruiser lean on the new vehicle or yours? I've tried all the KDSS tricks I've read about with no real success to address my lean, I think the suspension on the passenger side is just higher to account for the weight of a full fuel tank and mine may be more uneven than some. I've got just under an inch of lean up front and about 3/4" of an inch in the rear (drivers side low), which seems to be on the high side of a normal range based on what I've read. Installing the Toyota factory spacers had no effect on lean one way or the other, as it shouldn't have. I'm hoping my Tough Dog suspension will help level the cruiser out, may play with some spacers just on the drivers side if it's still leaning after the install.

-The Ridge Grapplers must run huge it you got 1.75" of lift from tires alone, according to specs the difference between stock tires and 285/70r18s is about 2.2" so the lift from your tires should be just barely over an inch. I've always heard BFG runs small and Nitto runs pretty true, something to keep in mind if I ever switch out my KO2s for something different. I think the 285/70r18 is a perfect tire size for a lifted 200 but there just aren't many options available in that size.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[indycole]

First, my personal opinion is that the mcgaskins-style build hits the sweet spot for this platform. At some point I do have concerns that the extra toll of heavy builds kind of contradicts all the talk about reliability, longevity, etc. that leads to these trucks in the first place. For my part I want to see my build through and ultimately learn how far the platform can be pushed to simultaneously be able to take on level 6-7 trails in Moab and extended, isolated, backcountry trips all while not sacrificing comfort and convenience. It's a lot to ask and the primary cost is weight.

At present our truck is ~8k in its standard configuration and up to 8.6k when fully loaded for a trip. That includes an extra 13 gallons of gas (soon to be 24), 24 gallons of fresh water, 2 humans, a dog, a stupidly-heavy RTT, two spares, and usually a night or two of firewood. Perhaps surprisingly, our gear list remains focused and as minimal as possible (i.e. I just downsized from an InReach and Sat Phone to a new Sat Phone with overlapping functionality with the InReach).

Back to the question... how does the truck handle/feel? I do tune the BP-51s a bit and get the CTIP right. Handling on paved road seems fine to me though it's been a long time since I've driven a truck within its GVM. I notice the truck's weight the most on long, paved inclines (though that's been better with the Pedal Commander). The regear has been pretty essential for a heavy build. The truck actually feels amazing on the dirt especially when aired down. No complaints at all. I do get uneasy on off-camber stuff with the 300lbs on the roof. Ugh. The most notable issue I've noticed is that the truck has to do a lot of work on steep, technical inclines where traction is a problem. With the rear locker on I get a fair amount of walking sideways if I'm not careful with the throttle. I also tend to be overly cautious when picking lines to avoid thousands of pounds coming down on a sensitive component.

On the handling side I will say that I don't feel like I have much fidelity with the BP-51s. There's a thin line between a bouncy front end and settings that are way too stiff.

My advice for others looking for a "do everything" 200 build is to consider something drastic such as a chop + tray or a complete conversion. A trailer is another option but I just can't get over the idea of dragging a trailer over all the narrow shelf roads we find ourselves on.

 

[mcgaskins]

@mcgaskins - I really like the comparisons of your cruiser to a stock one, helpful to look at some real world numbers in detail especially as I'm about to upgrade the suspension on my 2016. A couple of things I thought were interesting, especially comparing those numbers to my LC:

-The stock rear coils must settle a fair amount, as the rear fender height of 36.75" on the stock LC you measured is higher than my drivers side rear fender (~36.3") and just under my passenger rear fender (37") and I've got 275/70r18s which should put me about 1" over stock. I've got 26,000 miles on the coils so it makes sense they would settle some but an inch seems like a lot for a 2 year old new vehicle.

-Did you look at the cruiser lean on the new vehicle or yours? I've tried all the KDSS tricks I've read about with no real success to address my lean, I think the suspension on the passenger side is just higher to account for the weight of a full fuel tank and mine may be more uneven than some. I've got just under an inch of lean up front and about 3/4" of an inch in the rear (drivers side low), which seems to be on the high side of a normal range based on what I've read. Installing the Toyota factory spacers had no effect on lean one way or the other, as it shouldn't have. I'm hoping my Tough Dog suspension will help level the cruiser out, may play with some spacers just on the drivers side if it's still leaning after the install.

-The Ridge Grapplers must run huge it you got 1.75" of lift from tires alone, according to specs the difference between stock tires and 285/70r18s is about 2.2" so the lift from your tires should be just barely over an inch. I've always heard BFG runs small and Nitto runs pretty true, something to keep in mind if I ever switch out my KO2s for something different. I think the 285/70r18 is a perfect tire size for a lifted 200 but there just aren't many options available in that size.

Thanks for all the info!

Glad it could help! I too was a little surprised at the lift the tires provided, which is why I measure from so many different parts of the truck to ensure the results were consistent. The stock tires are spec'd at 31.5" tall and the RGs are 34", so that would suggest the lift from the tires is only 1.25". I think the extra bit of difference is likely that in the real world the stock tire is shorter and the RG is taller like you mentioned. I agree the 285/70/18 is the perfect proportion size for this platform IMO, but it is a shame so few tires are made in it. I think only the Nitto and Exo Ridge Grapplers, the KM2, and Toyo MT come in that size, and unfortunately they're all expensive options.

I didn't want to complicate the measurements, but I too have a little tiny bit of LC lean but mine is on the driver's side. My driver's side is about a quarter to half inch taller than the passenger side, which I've never noticed until I measured it. This pic is the closest thing I have to a perfectly level shot, and you can't tell from looking from looking at it there's anything off balance - ignore the fence in the background which is sloping and skewing the perspective. FWIW even the bone stock new one had about a half inch of lean!

 

[mcgaskins]

First, my personal opinion is that the mcgaskins-style build hits the sweet spot for this platform. At some point I do have concerns that the extra toll of heavy builds kind of contradicts all the talk about reliability, longevity, etc. that leads to these trucks in the first place. For my part I want to see my build through and ultimately learn how far the platform can be pushed to simultaneously be able to take on level 6-7 trails in Moab and extended, isolated, backcountry trips all while not sacrificing comfort and convenience. It's a lot to ask and the primary cost is weight.

At present our truck is ~8k in its standard configuration and up to 8.6k when fully loaded for a trip. That includes an extra 13 gallons of gas (soon to be 24), 24 gallons of fresh water, 2 humans, a dog, a stupidly-heavy RTT, two spares, and usually a night or two of firewood. Perhaps surprisingly, our gear list remains focused and as minimal as possible (i.e. I just downsized from an InReach and Sat Phone to a new Sat Phone with overlapping functionality with the InReach).

Back to the question... how does the truck handle/feel? I do tune the BP-51s a bit and get the CTIP right. Handling on paved road seems fine to me though it's been a long time since I've driven a truck within its GVM. I notice the truck's weight the most on long, paved inclines (though that's been better with the Pedal Commander). The regear has been pretty essential for a heavy build. The truck actually feels amazing on the dirt especially when aired down. No complaints at all. I do get uneasy on off-camber stuff with the 300lbs on the roof. Ugh. The most notable issue I've noticed is that the truck has to do a lot of work on steep, technical inclines where traction is a problem. With the rear locker on I get a fair amount of walking sideways if I'm not careful with the throttle. I also tend to be overly cautious when picking lines to avoid thousands of pounds coming down on a sensitive component.

On the handling side I will say that I don't feel like I have much fidelity with the BP-51s. There's a thin line between a bouncy front end and settings that are way too stiff.

My advice for others looking for a "do everything" 200 build is to consider something drastic such as a chop + tray or a complete conversion. A trailer is another option but I just can't get over the idea of dragging a trailer over all the narrow shelf roads we find ourselves on.

I for one appreciate how much guys like you and @Markuson push your rigs to the limit because it's helpful to show how "overbuilt" these trucks truly are. There aren't many vehicles you can load up with 2,000-3,000 pounds of weight over stock and punish them on trails in remote places and not worry about breaking the truck in half! I think some heavy duty trucks might be able to handle most of it, but there aren't any SUVs on the market that can!

On your last point...I think all the time that if I was to start a clean sheet build for my 4th (and final?!) 200, I'd buy a brand new one for the best deal I could find, ship it to Germany and have Maltec do a camper conversion, and then have Slee dial in the rest. I've never been fond of trailers unless you get something exotic like the sweet Kimberly Kamper that Romer has, but then I'd figure if I'm going to spend that much cash I might as well bite the bullet and spend a bit more to get the Maltec conversion done. That of course would mean I'd never want to daily drive the truck though for fear of some texting idiot in traffic running into my German camper conversion! I daily the LX 99% of the time, but at least I know the LC is completely ideal for a DD as well.

 

[indycole]

I for one appreciate how much guys like you and @Markuson push your rigs to the limit because it's helpful to show how "overbuilt" these trucks truly are. There aren't many vehicles you can load up with 2,000-3,000 pounds of weight over stock and punish them on trails in remote places and not worry about breaking the truck in half! I think some heavy duty trucks might be able to handle most of it, but there aren't any SUVs on the market that can!

On your last point...I think all the time that if I was to start a clean sheet build for my 4th (and final?!) 200, I'd buy a brand new one for the best deal I could find, ship it to Germany and have Maltec do a camper conversion, and then have Slee dial in the rest. I've never been fond of trailers unless you get something exotic like the sweet Kimberly Kamper that Romer has, but then I'd figure if I'm going to spend that much cash I might as well bite the bullet and spend a bit more to get the Maltec conversion done. That of course would mean I'd never want to daily drive the truck though for fear of some texting idiot in traffic running into my German camper conversion! I daily the LX 99% of the time, but at least I know the LC is completely ideal for a DD as well.

I'd be pretty curious about a Maltec-built LX570.

 

[mcgaskins]

I'd be pretty curious about a Maltec-built LX570.

That would be something! I don't admit this easily, but I came extremely close to getting a 2017 LX570 and building it instead of the LC. The Lexus (other than the way you interface with the center controls which is the worst system I've ever used) is nicer and handles better and feels far more modern, but I was just concerned about the extra difficulty in modding a 16+ LX the way I'd want to. The styling is very polarizing too, and they're depreciating much faster than the LC which are a couple more reasons I didn't go that way. But after wheeling the old 08 high mile LX we have, I would have zero concerns about building an LX. A 16+ Maletc LX with high clearance bumpers and a winch would be just about the ultimate vehicle in existence.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Hey, on the topic of lean. I noticed, and was concerned about this, a couple of years ago. I had ~ a 1.5” lean. But over time I have seen it “disappear”. Not that there isn’t some lean. But it changes. I measure my hubcap to fender height a lot in the summer as it is the way I check the weight distribution bar tension on my trailer hitch. Some days I’ll have a bit more lean on the left. Some times on the right. And the rather more extreme lean I had a year ago seems to be gone. I’m not sure why all that is but it suggests that things change. I didn’t do anything to effect that change.

And as for weight. Mine sounds pretty close to yours, Matt. Probably a bit lower as I don’t have a fridge or rear bumper. But I do have a Gobi roof rack which is not light. Drawers and sliders are probably pretty close to yours. No dual battery for me though I do have the ARB compressor under the hood.

Now @indycole and @Markuson have build some serious beasts. (Mark, why did you remove your swing out rear bumper?). And @linuxgod makes me very comfortable that I am not pushing the limits with my trailer. (My tongue weight is closer to 900# but my weight before adding the trailer is considerably lower.) I did happen to look at the YouTube video of that company in Australia that does the GVM upgrades complete with Australia approved stickers and is essentially doing it with an upgraded suspension. I can’t remember was the increased GVM was in lbs but it was very significant.

 

[Mendocino]

@mcgaskins, I don't worry about the weight. I just turn up the Pedal Commander.