Builds Marion Rising: 1974 FJ40 FST

[MadMace]

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Your ported vaccum tube has something on it now, correct?

I’d be curious what Mark’s Off Road thinks about eliminating the VSV for now? Looks like you still have it partially hooked up.

Yes, it does. I have it hooked up as pictured below. The EGR ones are capped off.

 

[thebigredrocker]

I’d cap all that old emissions stuff off for now and recheck vacuum leak.

Most of the retard dissy’s I’ve seen look different than yours. I think “usually” on retard distributors the Vac canister nipple points toward rear of vehicle. Yours points toward front. Perhaps a test is in order: use a vacuum pump and apply suction while watching points plate rotate. If it rotates clockwise, it’s a retarding dissy. Counter clock is timing advance dissy. Also that vac pod should hold pressure.

 

[MadMace]

I’d cap all that old emissions stuff off for now and recheck vacuum leak.

Most of the retard dissy’s I’ve seen look different than yours. I think “usually” on retard distributors the Vac canister nipple points toward rear of vehicle. Yours points toward front. Perhaps a test is in order: use a vacuum pump and apply suction while watching points plate rotate. If it rotates clockwise, it’s a retarding dissy. Counter clock is timing advance dissy. Also that vac pod should hold pressure.

Okay, I'm going to cap off the VSV and all the ports--i.e. on the carb, carb diaphragm, intake manifold, and dissy.

When vacuum is applied to the dissy, I hear a click and I can see the plate rotate clockwise a small amount. From what you posted, that would be a retard dissy, right? I think that your experience is extensive so if it does not look like other retard dissys you've seen, is it possible it is installed incorrectly? How would I know?

How do I get the rotor off to inspect the points plate?

 

[65swb45]

1. As Mark indicated, cap everything for now.

2. Like I told @Rigger when I delivered his carburetor to Wyoming, leave the distributor for now. I don’t like to introduce more variables. Chances are you just need to reset the points for now. Pull straight up on the rotor to remove it.

3. What method did you use to set the valve lash?

 

[MadMace]

1. As Mark indicated, cap everything for now.

2. Like I told @Rigger when I delivered his carburetor to Wyoming, leave the distributor for now. I don’t like to introduce more variables. Chances are you just need to reset the points for now. Pull straight up on the rotor to remove it.

3. What method did you use to set the valve lash?

1. I have now capped all the ports.

2. I'll check the points plate and research how to reset them--I'll report back.

3. I used the exact method pictured below to set valve lash--I used a 0.008 and 0.014 feeler gauge for the intake and exhaust valves respectively. Maybe I should recheck them.

 

[thebigredrocker]

From what you posted, that would be a retard dissy, right? I think that your experience is extensive so if it does not look like other retard dissys you've seen, is it possible it is installed incorrectly?

As you suspected, you’ve definately got a retarding dissy.

I think it was Mark’s Off Road who pointed out vac canister orientation isn’t the litmus test. That’s why I typed “usually”. But now I’m wondering if saying “usually” is completely false.

Carry on

 

[MadMace]

Thank you for the advice to look at the dizzy. I think I have found one issue that needed to be corrected. Points gap was essentially 0--I could not get the thinnest feeler gauge btwn them--I have included a picture below.

Per the FSM I adjusted the gap to 0.018, I have also included a picture so if I have done something wrong, please let me know.

Assuming that the point gap was not correct, what problem(s) would that cause?

 

[65swb45]

The central shaft of the distributor has six lobes on it. The Bakelite brush of the points must be resting on the top of a lobe when you check points gap.

Chances are with a 40 year old distributor you’re going to need less than .016” to get decent dwell.

 

[MadMace]

I realized after my last post that I likely did not have the central shaft in the right position. I rotated the engine to the TDC mark and adjusted the points gap to .018". I do not have a dwell meter. I can get one though. Should I go ahead and set the gap to .016?

 

[thebigredrocker]

You can also loosen the dissy clamp, turn the dissy so the bakelite brush is on the peak of the lobe.

Some gems on dwell from 65swb45

1.Dwell is the REAL measurement; point gap is only a handy reference.

2. As the dizzy gets older, and the shaft vibrates more, the stated point gap of the FSM bears less and less resemblance to what is required to achieve dwell.

3. In all likelihood, you will have to reduce gap well below factory spec to achieve proper dwell. This increases the likelihood that the points will burn prematurely. I had a customer some years ago whose dizzy was SO WORN that gap had to be reduced to .008 to achieve dwell. I told him I didn't think his points would last a week at that setting. They lasted two.

4. Dwell is preset and optimized in the Pertronix; this is one of the many reasons I like the product so much.

Best

Mark A.

Think about this. Point gap is an approximation. What you are really after is dwell DURATION. Duration is a function of time and energy. So time is an element, even though not in the way you are thinking.

Check your work with a dwell meter. Not just at idle, but at 1200 and 2000 rpm. Your distributor bearings may be failing.

BTW, I finally put that hardtop glass back on the shelf you inquired about.

Mark

38-41.

1.Alfred, just change the points and set the dwell. THEN check point gap against dwell. If gap is less than .012”, points are going to fry quickly, and it’s time to move on to another dizzy.

2.But with a properly dwelled set of points, you should be able to get a better idea of vacuum to at least set a baseline before you change carbs.

3. If vacuum retard dizzy fails the point gap test, replace with a vac advance unit, set timing and recheck vacuum.

4.Provided the vacuum is ok, THEN change the carb.

 

[MadMace]

Any recommendations for a specific dwell meter--i.e. analogue vs digital. There does not seem to be many analogue options out there unless I go to E-Bay and buy a "vintage" one.

 

[MadMace]

Not that it matters a whole lot, but it looks like my dissy is a 1975/early 1976 according to the information below. From what I've read, sounds to be an excellent dissy.

Hopefully, I'll have a dwell meter this weekend and can get it dialed in.

 

[MadMace]

kevo37 hooked us up with a dwell meter. We immediately put it to work.

Connected the red clamp to the neg. on the ignition coil, the black to ground.

I'm confused because I though as I narrowed the point gap the dwell angle would increase. I started at a gap of 0.018" dwell angle 33. Decreased the gap to 0.016 the 0.014 and the dwell angle did not change at all. What am I doing wrong? Do i need to continue to decrease the gap?

 

[MadMace]

I'm stuck--I really need some help. I continue to have difficulty getting Marion to idle smoothly. I can only keep here running with about 1/4 choke. If I open the choke fully, the engine dies.

She is a 1974 Cali-spec that has been de-smoged. Timing in set to 10 degrees BTDC. Valves have been adjusted. Original carb just rebuilt and installed. New dissy installed (brand new 19100-61080). New fuel pump and fuel filter. OEM, functioning PCV. I cannot detect any vacuum leaks anywhere--I have searched and searched but the vacuum stinks--I am below 15 at 650 ft above sea level.

Although I installed the new dissy, I cannot get dwell above 35 degrees--currently points are set 0.016" apart. Does this mean anything or is my gauge not working.

I was planning on rechecking the valves but getting her to operating temp when I cannot even keep her idling is difficult.

I really need help with what to do next. Next in line is to replace the spark plugs and then the wires. I continue to replace with new parts but make no headway. I don't so much mind putting new parts if they are needed but I am starting to feel that I am chasing my tail here.

Although I have checked for vacuum leaks around the intake manifold, there are parts of it I cannot get to to check for leaks.

Should I take the manifolds off to have them planed and replace the gaskets? How would I know if I need a head rebuild? Plan if I need a head rebuild is to send it to FJ40Jim.

Any ideas about what order to do things in so I can get her driving again.

 

[thebigredrocker]

If you haven’t check valves with engine hot, I’d probably do that first. Can you drive it with choke 1/4 out?

 

[MadMace]

If you haven’t check valves with engine hot, I’d probably do that first. Can you drive it with choke 1/4 out?

When I originally checked and adjusted the valves the engine was hot but it was the first time I have adjusted valves...ever, so I think it is worth a recheck.

Would driving her with the choke pulled out a 1/4 be detrimental? I could adjust my idle screw and completely close the choke--only problem is the idle has be set around 750-800 RPM or the engine dies. Which of those 2 options is better?

 

[thebigredrocker]

AFIK running with choke won’t hurt anything. I’d probably leave the carb alone. Run it around the block w/ choke, check lash, adjust the valves that need adjusting and see if vacuum improves.

When you checked lash, did you do it with engine off? I “think” it’s best to check your valve clearances while the engine is running. Obviously turn the engine off when you do the actual adjusting. If your son is helping you can have him write down which valves are tight, loose or good. Another option if doing it solo is video while your checking lash. Just call out your observations, write it down later.

Because the primary concern is getting the valve lash correct when the engine is running. Most of the time when an engine is running it is warmed up. IOW, we don't care what the valve lash is on a cold, non-runnning engine because... well, it is not running.

 

[MadMace]

It has been quite some time since my last post. Life happens, as they say, and Marion got put on the back burner for a while. Fortunately, things have settled out a little and we can turn some of our attention back to her.

We have been steadily working our way through the engine and are now at rebuilding the head. One of the things I read about was replacing the original valves with Chevy stainless steel valves and springs. Like on all previous things I have dove into with Marion, I have no experience here. Does anybody know of a good place to source these, what sizes I need, etc. My understanding from reading is that I will also need new guides and seals as well.

In addition to new valves, etc the plan is to Magnaflux the head and plane/resurface it, and get a new head gasket on. Is there anything else that I should be doing/looking into at this stage (i.e. have the head off and re-working it)?

Any help/direction ya'll can give me is much appreciated.

 

[MadMace]

Quick update.

We are slowly working the manifold nuts off the studs in the head. These suckers are frozen tight so we are backing the nuts back a quarter turn and soaking the stud threads to loosen the nuts. I have broken my fair share of bolts during this refresh. These studs I do not want to break, so we are literally taking days to work these nuts off.

The plan is to get this head to @FJ40Jim so he can work his magic. (Jim, if you read this, thanks for the help through e-mail). I am really excited about having a piece on my FJ40 that has been done by Jim. I think all who are on this forum understand that feeling. It will be well worth the 4+ week wait.

This has all got me thinking about something. Are there parts that any of you are getting for your specific engines/rigs because they are becoming more scare and harder to source? In my case, Marion is a numbers matching 1974 that I want to keep that way. Pistons for these F motors are coming hard to come by. I will not every be interested in pulling the 1.5 F motor to put in a 2F unless there is no other option. Should I be on the look out for a set of pistons in case I need them down the road? How about another head? I am interested in any feedback that ya’ll can give me so that I can keep my eyes open for different parts.

 

[MadMace]

Big accomplishment, head finally came off today. I will post some pictures shortly.

One thing that I need help with is do I have the right gasket? I ordered this from @65swb45 a little while ago in anticipation of pulling the head. It seems that there are several holes in the original head gasket that are not in the new gasket. Do I need a different gasket? The engine is a 1974 F155 (1.5F).