LX Owners = BMW owners?

[katit]

You'll never lift up a BMW with 100K miles or more and not see an oil leak, whatever it is that BMW use for gaskets, they all fail and leak like crazy.

Thats true. But it doesn't live you on a side of a road. Ironically - my LX leaks from at least 2 spots right now. So..

I don't feel like owning old BMW either, but I don't think their "crappiness" is a reason. I just don't want to. I might do Porsche next time for "old car".

 

[rdsmvp]

Book is one thing. But book does not tell you to replace all cooling system at 90-100k (hoses, radiator, pump). And this seem to be a "thing" with pretty much all BMWs from 199x and on

Oh Wait! Hold your horses right there. Cooling system is a consumable item on BMWs like your brakes. You just replace everything every 60K miles and you are gold.

 

[RND1]

Ok, looks like we have different experience than. My experience with old BMWs that I wrench just as much as I do with LX. My new (not really new, just out of warranty) M3 does not have any issues. So, what should I take out of it? And btw, great thing Lexus has service records public - I see regular visits with my LX to a dealer during warranty and after with one thing or another. Nothing major but not oil change either. So looks like toyota breaks down and have issues too.

I think I blocked out of my memory all the issues I had w the '99 540i6 but from what I recall, I had the following issues that I would say are more prevalent to old German cars than old Japanese cars: plastic radiator failure (left me stranded), power steering pump ripped off engine block (left me stranded), electrical gremlins (no headlights left me stranded), ABS control module, ABS sensors, Valley pan gaskets, exploding fan clutch (left wife stranded), pixels out in instrument clusters, vanos, ball joints, end links, guibo, etc etc. This all happened between 85k miles when I bought the car to 105k miles when I sold it. My BMW indy mechanic said the e39 5 series was actually a pretty good platform but they shouldn't have stuffed the V8 in there lol.

I've owned 8 BMWs in the past, ranging from 330Ci to E46 M3's to X5's to 335i's. They were all crap, great to drive, but breaks all the time. I was young, i was eager to work on cars so that's the only reason i bought them. Now that i'm older, lazier, appreciate my time more, i wouldn't touch another bimmer again. I'm also a light duty mechanic and inspector at a shop, i've seen my fare shares of BMW problems in the shop. Yes you can get lucky and have a good BMW, but a majority of it, are crap. You'll never lift up a BMW with 100K miles or more and not see an oil leak, whatever it is that BMW use for gaskets, they all fail and leak like crazy.

If i were to get another BMW, i'd only get a 2004+ E46 M3 manual, they were the most reliable BMW that's why you see their prices skyrocket recently, the same way land cruiser prices are going up, people know it's a good used car they'll pay more for it.

I agree w most of what you said except in my experience the E36 M3 has turned out to be the most reliable old German car I've ever owned including the E46 M3 and 80's/90's era 911's. Compared to the E46 M3, no issues with rod bearings, rear subframe cracks, or vanos on the E36. But E36 still has common issues like rear shock mounts, window regulators, sagging headliners, etc.

I will say the one thing the Germans seem to do better than the Japanese is rust proofing. Sad how many nice 100 series are all rusted out underneath in New England.

 

[utflowerman]

Let’s not forget a few things. It’s a Lexus. That cost an incredible amount of money new. There was a very specific person buying these brand new. All the LX470s I pulled reports on had religious dealer maintenance for the first owner or two.

The first few owners of a 100 series came along well before the ih8mud bible thread on AHC maintenance. Something fails, they go to the dealer, dealer quotes a few thousand dollars for a fix because they are going to replace the whole system. Owner doesn’t need 3” of lift on demand. The next best option is to spend $1000 total and retrofit to LC suspension bits.

When I bought mine I finished off the AHC half removal job the third owner did and installed OME. It rides almost as well as any AHC vehicle I test drove.

 

[TXLX100]

I was second owner of my LX and the fluid wasn’t maintained in the AHC system for 100k miles. Eventually the globes became stiff and my choice was to spend $2500 for new Toyota parts or buy a nice lift. We were using the car for camping and off-roading, the choice was easy to make. AHC isn’t a bad system by any means, but I’m not going to spend 25-30% of the car value to retain it. Now.... had it had some resale value to keep it stock.... I would have done that. 100 series aren’t that special, yet at least.

 

[jLB]

Gents,

Honest question and probably also a thread for me to vent my frustration (LOL - in a good way really).
I have been looking for an LX 470. Year and mileage not really a concern, assuming the vehicle was properly maintained and has no major rust. I am not expecting a garage queen or anything as I do understand that a 20+ year old vehicle will have wear and tear. Even in the undercarriage. But of course one thing is looking at a vehicle that spent its whole life in upstate NY versus one from Phoenix, AZ. I get that.
My frustration is simple: almost all cars I have found for sale (i.e. Cars.com, Autotrader.com) in a reasonable condition, had the damn AHC removed.

That leads me to my Lexus owner/BMW owner comparison.

I have a little fleet at home with several different vehicles, from a Mini Cooper to a Lamborghini Gallardo. Out of all these, my favourite by far and the one I would keep if I had to sell all other cars, would be my 1999 BMW 750iL. A V12 beast with all the bells and whistles you can think of in a modern car. Built-in navigation, phone, Bi-Xenon lights, heated seats in the front and rear, etc. It is all there. In damn 1999.
As the LX 470, the car has front EDC shocks and SLS in the back (hydraulic). Guess what the second or third owners on these vehicles remove first? The DAMN SLS.

And that pisses me off in ways you cannot even imagine. The best thing on the car is the V12 AND the smoothness of that suspension, what I assume the AHC gives you. Certainly I get why some people remove the AHC, if definitely using the car mostly for off-roading with big 35" tires. Sure,
Now the BMW is not an off-road vehicle so why they remove it? Because they are damn freaking CHEAP owners. Instead of properly maintaining the car and keeping it 100% functional as per the factory build, they start butchering such amazing cars just to save USD 1800 (what a full rebuild on all four corners cost you).
All the LX 470s I was looking at were all mall crawlers for sure with very little, if any, off-roading done. That leads me to think the only reason these owners removed the damn AHC was indeed to save cost (what means being CHEAP like the BMW owners).

And that leads me to think, if someone is completely removing a system where all four globes can be bought for USD 1000 (again being cheap) what else did they want to save money on, maintenance wise? If the car is maintained at Lexus, I am pretty sure they would never put in the wrong fluid for the AHC system (what I have heard it was the case with several cars not maintained at Lexus - and yes, I do get the reason why people avoid the 'stealership' for maintenance).

What do you guys think? Are most second/third Lexus owners really like that, falling into the cheap category and the main reason behind AHC being deleted from all these?

And by the way if anyone has a lead to a vehicle that meets the requirements I mentioned let me know.

I cringe just as much, as anyone else on this forum, when I see the "I just bought a used LX470. I haven't really driven it, but my first mod is going to be a basic 'mild' 3 inch OME kit, so I can go off road with it" or the "Why does my LX470 ride like s*** after installing the Strutmasters kit" posts.

That being said, I did remove the AHC from my 06 LX (owned from new) after ~12 years. Why? Because the dealer wanted to try the crap shoot troubleshooting method and gave a $6000 estimate, my local independents didn't want to have anything to do with AHC, and I was recovering from back surgery. I've owned LS/GX/LX/T4R with various factory pneumatic and hydro-pneumatic suspensions, and it has been my experience that resolving issues with them at the dealer is not a pleasant nor cheap experience.

If it is relatively corrosion free, your vehicle is mostly stock, and you have the ability to go through some of the guides on this forum, it's a nice, relatively robust "does most things well" system.

To get a decent conventional suspension, that comes close to AHC, it is probably going to cost more than the typical AHC repairs, and it may do some things better than AHC, but it will not be as "well rounded" as AHC.

I do have to point out that I find a a rant from a perspective 2nd or 3rd owner, of a ~14-23 year old, 200k mile, non-collectible vehicle, about what previous owners have done to their own vehicles somewhat amusing. Maybe you should've bought one new, and done what you wanted to it?

As far as BMW owner, I tried that once, and only once, I loved driving the vehicle, but grew very tired of the unscheduled trips to the shop.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Ignorance and exorbitant dealer markups drive the majority of AHC removal.

Ignorance: It's not only ignorance of the owner, but also ignorance of the mechanics/service advisors - Lexus dealer or otherwise. AHC is a complex beast. It is unlike any other system most mechanics have dealt with and that includes many of those working in the beautiful bays of your local Lexus dealer. The manuals from Lexus and Toyota do not do a good job, IMO, of walking techs down the path of least pain for the customer. If you follow the manual to a T, you can end up recommending $4,500 in parts and labor when a free or very inexpensive adjustment is all that's needed. This leads to a large percentage of erroneous repair estimates and missed diagnostic queues.

Dealer Markups: In the last few years we've seen near-wholesale cost options on many Toyota/Lexus parts from McGeorge, EB Toyota, Partsouq, Impex and others. That's revealed some downright ugly pricing strategies from brick and mortar dealers. Now we know what they pay for parts and we can estimate their attempted profit margins for being a "no-value-add-reseller". Markups can be well in excess of 150%. Worse yet, the lead times from your local dealer are often worse than the lead times from Partsouq... and Partsouq ships from the other side of the planet.

Some AHC owners are/were cheap. Some are also just mislead by ignorance.

That ignorance is what many of us on this board are putting a significant effort into correcting. AHC/AVS is a wonderfully comfortable, functional (even for heavy duty overland rigs) and reliable system when it is properly maintained. Maintenance is not that difficult or expensive if you know the system and it's common wear/failure points.

*There are good reasons to remove AHC. Pervasive rust and driving from Alaska to South America would be the top examples I can think of. Having a set of dead globes is the most common reason we see for removal of the system and that's unfortunate, IMO. ~$750 and a couple hours cures dead globes.

 

[ramangain]

Personally I've owned an 08 M5 6mt (the one with the V10) and an 07 M Roadster (Z4 look with E46 M3 running parts). Both cars required more "love" to maintain than my LX470.

Keep in mind both BMWs were designed to require more "love" than my LX470.

You think squishy bits require replacement too often on the LC/LX? Own an //M car and you'll reconsider.

 

[tugboatmike]

Current LX470 with AHC owner, former E39 525i5, 540it, and alpine white M5 owner. I like the AHC a lot more than I thought I would.

 

[tincan45]

Partially that, but also partially because they view AHC as a “bad setup” out of their own ignorance mixed with dip$hit advice from Facebook groups rather than MUD. There are of course exceptions, because practical reasons do exist for removing AHC; for example, traveling through or moving to a country where Lexus isn’t sold so you can’t get AHC parts if a failure occurs.

100% agree....Or rust. This attitude exists on the 200's as well. This is a system that has been fine tuned for the last 65 years and, as far as I know, Toyota is the only one still improving it. Citroen stopped in 2017 or 2018 in favor of cheaper air solutions, Mercedes quit in 2014, not sure the last year for rolls royce, but it was a while ago. People don't understand it, mechanics fear it. Those who care to know it...love it.

Here's a brief history lesson:

 

[tugboatmike]

I guess I should note that I have a Mercedes w123 wagon with hydraulic SLS in the rear, and it works fantastic. Most people my age and younger delete it, which is dumb as it’s the best part of buying the wagon over the coupe/sedan.

 

[FxFormat]

My Benz also has AHC like suspension, but MB calls it ABC (active body control) It has way more moving parts and requires 10x more maintenance than Toyota's AHC. I have to try and keep it going rather than converting to coilovers. Such a heavy car needs ABC to control it when cornering. It also helps keep the car from doing a wheelie when I floor it with 800lb ft of torque on tap

I know a lot of guys over on the MB forum delete theirs and go to coilovers as soon as something breaks in their ABC system, but man you take that out of this car and it drives like ass. Buyers should do their due diligence and know what they're getting themselves into. My benz is the exact opposite of the cruiser, it's fast as hell, unreliable, and depreciate horribly. The only thing they have in common is the 13mpg i get in both cars.


Oh i can't wait for spring when i bring her out again.

 

[suprarx7nut]

My Benz also has AHC like suspension, but MB calls it ABC (active body control) It has way more moving parts and requires 10x more maintenance than Toyota's AHC. I have to try and keep it going rather than converting to coilovers. Such a heavy car needs ABC to control it when cornering. It also helps keep the car from doing a wheelie when I floor it with 800lb ft of torque on tap

I know a lot of guys over on the MB forum delete theirs and go to coilovers as soon as something breaks in their ABC system, but man you take that out of this car and it drives like ass. Buyers should do their due diligence and know what they're getting themselves into. My benz is the exact opposite of the cruiser, it's fast as hell, unreliable, and depreciate horribly. The only thing they have in common is the 13mpg i get in both cars.


Oh i can't wait for spring when i bring her out again.

At some point - probably when we move into our "forever home" and I have my "forever garage" with an extra spot or three - I'm going to need to give a list of cars a 6-month long test drive. Those V12 SL MBs are on that list. That's gotta be a fun kick in the pants.

 

[FxFormat]

At some point - probably when we move into our "forever home" and I have my "forever garage" with an extra spot or three - I'm going to need to give a list of cars a 6-month long test drive. Those V12 SL MBs are on that list. That's gotta be a fun kick in the pants.

If you think our 4.7 V8s are smooth, these Benz V12s are 10x smoother. At a redlight, you'd think you're driving a Tesla, you hear zero sound, zero vibrations the only thing that indicated the car was on is the tachometer not at 0. Well that was the case with mine until i straight piped it.

 

[tugboatmike]

If you think our 4.7 V8s are smooth, these Benz V12s are 10x smoother. At a redlight, you'd think you're driving a Tesla, you hear zero sound, zero vibrations the only thing that indicated the car was on is the tachometer not at 0. Well that was the case with mine until i straight piped it.

Ha sounds like the complete opposite dynamic of my Mercedes. Rattle trap inline 5 turbo diesel with a big pump, bigger turbo, and 4 speed manual swap.

 

[thebeedeegee]

I'll agree with a lot of what was said here, part of it is wanting to turn the LX into a full time off roader, and I get that. That system failing on the trail would suck. Those guys don't usually care as much about how plush the ride is either so they rip it out. Keeping the pressures in spec really isn't that hard though. I added front and rear bumpers and changed springs and torsion bars and I'm right where I need to be.

On the other hand a guy on here threw 35's on with the AHC intact and DID THE RUBICON! So the system is definitely not some dainty crap that will come apart after the first boulder. I've had plenty of clearance in high mode and on 33's to do what I want to do.

My 99 LX had an AHC flush around 175k and it's still working at 190k (knock on wood). If it fails I may replace the globes and try to keep it going. I love the AHC ,but replacing the globes then having some other part finally fail while on a trip isn't something I want to deal with....oh yeah and I'm cheap so I kind of fall into both categories haha.

 

[RND1]

IIRC, this LX is running 35's on stock AHC suspension in high. He did really well on all the trails during HIH7. If I lived in the south and had a rust free rig, I would keep AHC.

 

[jLB]

Did you get to install the new Dobinsons IMS? If yes, how do you like them?

Unfortunately, no, not yet. They’re still sitting in the garage waiting on me

 

[rrc swb]

I leave you with this:

 

[rrc swb]

And this:

https://www.abandonedcubicle.com/bmw-drivers-assholes/