LX Owners = BMW owners? (1 Viewer)

[rdsmvp]

Gents,

Honest question and probably also a thread for me to vent my frustration (LOL - in a good way really).
I have been looking for an LX 470. Year and mileage not really a concern, assuming the vehicle was properly maintained and has no major rust. I am not expecting a garage queen or anything as I do understand that a 20+ year old vehicle will have wear and tear. Even in the undercarriage. But of course one thing is looking at a vehicle that spent its whole life in upstate NY versus one from Phoenix, AZ. I get that.
My frustration is simple: almost all cars I have found for sale (i.e. Cars.com, Autotrader.com) in a reasonable condition, had the damn AHC removed.

That leads me to my Lexus owner/BMW owner comparison.

I have a little fleet at home with several different vehicles, from a Mini Cooper to a Lamborghini Gallardo. Out of all these, my favourite by far and the one I would keep if I had to sell all other cars, would be my 1999 BMW 750iL. A V12 beast with all the bells and whistles you can think of in a modern car. Built-in navigation, phone, Bi-Xenon lights, heated seats in the front and rear, etc. It is all there. In damn 1999.
As the LX 470, the car has front EDC shocks and SLS in the back (hydraulic). Guess what the second or third owners on these vehicles remove first? The DAMN SLS.

And that pisses me off in ways you cannot even imagine. The best thing on the car is the V12 AND the smoothness of that suspension, what I assume the AHC gives you. Certainly I get why some people remove the AHC, if definitely using the car mostly for off-roading with big 35" tires. Sure,
Now the BMW is not an off-road vehicle so why they remove it? Because they are damn freaking CHEAP owners. Instead of properly maintaining the car and keeping it 100% functional as per the factory build, they start butchering such amazing cars just to save USD 1800 (what a full rebuild on all four corners cost you).
All the LX 470s I was looking at were all mall crawlers for sure with very little, if any, off-roading done. That leads me to think the only reason these owners removed the damn AHC was indeed to save cost (what means being CHEAP like the BMW owners).

And that leads me to think, if someone is completely removing a system where all four globes can be bought for USD 1000 (again being cheap) what else did they want to save money on, maintenance wise? If the car is maintained at Lexus, I am pretty sure they would never put in the wrong fluid for the AHC system (what I have heard it was the case with several cars not maintained at Lexus - and yes, I do get the reason why people avoid the 'stealership' for maintenance).

What do you guys think? Are most second/third Lexus owners really like that, falling into the cheap category and the main reason behind AHC being deleted from all these?

And by the way if anyone has a lead to a vehicle that meets the requirements I mentioned let me know.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

What do you guys think? Are most second/third Lexus owners really like that, falling into the cheap category and the main reason behind AHC being deleted from all these?

Partially that, but also partially because they view AHC as a “bad setup” out of their own ignorance mixed with dip$hit advice from Facebook groups rather than MUD. There are of course exceptions, because practical reasons do exist for removing AHC; for example, traveling through or moving to a country where Lexus isn’t sold so you can’t get AHC parts if a failure occurs.

 

[TheForger]

LP 560-4??

 

[rdsmvp]

Partially that, but also partially because they view AHC as a “bad setup” out of their own ignorance mixed with dip$hit advice from Facebook groups rather than MUD. There are of course exceptions, because practical reasons do exist for removing AHC; for example, traveling through or moving to a country where Lexus isn’t sold so you can’t get AHC parts if a failure occurs.

That I get. I can understand people using an LX 470 for overlanding only and getting the biggest tires in a raised suspension. Sure. But most of the vehicles listed for sale are far from that, really as I mentioned mall crawlers or maybe used to drive to their cottage every once in a while. In that case it is indeed like I have guessed: being a cheap @$$ owner. Man it is sad. Same feeling I have when people show me 750s with a converted suspension. I want to punch them in the face. It was a 100K car back in 1997 and came with a free BMW R1200 motorcycle (yep, true) for a reason.

 

[rdsmvp]

LP 560-4??

Nope. Car 396 out of the production line, October 2003. It was Lamborghini's own display car that they brought to the Geneva and Detroit Auto Shows in early 2004. The only one they made in that combo color (Silver exterior with a dual tone interior - pics attached even though they are not an LX/LC and may violate forum rules). Will go to the grave with me and with an LX 470, assuming I can find an unmolested one. I feel like shopping for a Mazda RX-7 or Toyota Supra where all the butchers already took action and destroyed these cars. The LX seems to be going down that exact same road unfortunately.

 

[SF1911A1]

I thought about removing my AHC on my 99 to put a lift on it when I bought it, but after driving it for a few months after purchase I decided there was no way I wanted to lose that smooth ride. There’s also very little maintenance required for the AHC suspension so although it’s a complicated system to design it’s simple as hell for the end user to keep up with. Mine has 265k miles on the AHC and I plan on replacing whatever parts fail as time goes on to keep it in good working order.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

In that case it is indeed like I have guessed: being a cheap @$$ owner.

I agree, but I think there’s also widespread ignorance about AHC. From what I can tell, a lot of 2nd/3rd owners, most of which are newbies to Cruisers in general, remove it because the idiots on Facebook tell them AHC is in one way or another “bad”, despite not really knowing what they’re talking about. For whatever reason, most newbies seem to join the Facebook groups first and later, or perhaps never, join the MUD gold mine of info.

 

[FxFormat]

Once you drive a truck with AHC, you can't go back, esp if you commute on the highway a lot. Get it dialed in, and it'll ride like a dream, the only reason i'd replace AHC if all the lines burst due to rust and/or the shocks are all bad. It's easily serviced, knowledge is key.

 

[SF1911A1]

That’s another good point. I live in Texas so there isn’t a speck of rust anywhere on my truck. I would not invest in rehabilitating the system if there was rust on the lines. Then you could sprout a problem anywhere along the line.

 

[katit]

There is enthusiasts and there is users. "Users" - view cars as mode of transportation. And yes, they are cheap because if they had money they would drive new 200!
If I didn't feel like wrenching myself - I would buy 200. I would DEFINITELY NOT buy used old luxury car and then take it to dealership for repairs. It's a nonsense. It takes a lot even in parts cost to maintain those properly. If you x2-x3 this with maintenance - you can definitely buy new. For example, I spent about 10k in parts on mine. Would be about 20-30k more if I paid for labor. Maybe not new 200, but pretty damn nice one..

Unfortunately, this is fate of old luxury (and not) cars. They get into hands of people who just needs some transportation. And they will delay any maintenance for as long as possible and will try to save on every single item if possible. I can't blame them. I only tell those who ask - "If you can buy it does not mean you can afford it"

Quote from luxury SUV owner on this forum:

I just got my stimulus check and went to the website to purchase...

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

They watched Hoovies video and removed it like he did, even though he said it was working perfectly at 321K miles. At least he admits he's an idiot. I've done the math, if I had to replace all the globes at MSRP, the dampers, I'm at like $2500. The only other things that goes bad is the motor, I guess, and there are lots available used or another grand I guess. I've never looked up the price. The point being it's a 15 year old vehicle now, and I'm guessing I'll need to work on it in another 5'ish years. 20 years, $3500 (worst case scenario) $175/year. Pretty cheap in the long run.

 

[jlm43]

What do you guys think? Are most second/third Lexus owners really like that, falling into the cheap category and the main reason behind AHC being deleted from all these?

Yes, some will be cheap, but don't confuse the cheap owners with the owners that want something different. If you want a decent lift, and you're building an off road rig, then it may make sense to remove the system. It would make better sense to buy a vehicle without it already installed but that's not always an option.

"If you can buy it does not mean you can afford it"

I've been in aviation for 20+ years, and this comment is spot on for the casual weekend pilot. If people think Land Cruisers are expensive to maintain, you should try buying an airplane. Helicopters (my specialty) are even worse.

 

[RND1]

I would edit your title to "LX Owners = Past BMW Owners?". People migrate to Lexus once they've tired of the costly maintenance and unreliability of BMW. I had a 99 540i 6 sp that I loved (styling, performance, handling), but it left me stranded on the side of the road 3 times and my wife once. That was it - done w BMW. Went back to Japanese.

Most LX470 Owners (especially original) are not car enthusiasts. They bought it for luxury and reliability. When the AHC goes bad, and they're driving around like a stink bug, and the dealer quotes $3500 to replace the globes, lines, etc they simply opt for the less headache conventional Toyota suspension found on the LC.

Not sure where you're seeing all of these LX's with AHC removed - most I see for sale used including the '06-'07 LC all have AHC. When I see an '06 - '07 LC without AHC, that's a plus in my book. I also live in the rust belt, like you.

Oh, and BMW eventually lured me back in when I found a clean '98.5 M3. But, it's a weekend car (prob like your 750il?) so when it breaks I can wrench on it at my leisure. I also spoil it with oem parts, but it doesn't have EDC or SLS!

The ever popular LX470 stinkbug pose after rear AHC failure.

 

[katit]

I would edit your title to "LX Owners = Past BMW Owners?". People migrate to Lexus once they've tired of the costly maintenance and unreliability of BMW. I had a 99 540i 6 sp that I loved (styling, performance, luxury), but it left me stranded on the side of the road 3 times and my wife once. That was it - done w BMW. Went back to Japanese.

I had same car for 10 years, bought it with 110k and sold with 230k. NEVER stranded. Best car I had ever. YES, spent a lot on parts and preventative maintenance. Owned many used BMWs I can tell you - they are no worse then Lexus. Have their own quirks but definitely not as bad as people make them look. They just have same "package" of deferred maintenance items it seems. Once it's done - they as good as anything else but better.

 

[ramangain]

I thought this thread was about how many LX owners are BMW owners.

Then the OP differentiated between smart LX owners also being smart BMW owners.

I'm not quite sure how big that Venn diagram intersection area is, but I bet it isn't that big.

 

[RND1]

Owned many used BMWs I can tell you - they are no worse then Lexus.

I'm a BMW fan, but even I find this statement ludicrous.

 

[rdsmvp]

I had same car for 10 years, bought it with 110k and sold with 230k. NEVER stranded. Best car I had ever. YES, spent a lot on parts and preventative maintenance. Owned many used BMWs I can tell you - they are no worse then Lexus. Have their own quirks but definitely not as bad as people make them look. They just have same "package" of deferred maintenance items it seems. Once it's done - they as good as anything else but better.

That is a great point. The deferred maintenance. Some cars may run even with no oil (like Toyotas) but BMW, Land Rovers, you did not change the door handle that broke and guess what, somehow that will be connected to the crankshaft and the car will explode. It is like punishment from the German/British Car Gods. You either follow maintenance by the book or else.

That is probably the reason my 750iL is still working as expected. Best car ever, by far and I had many from all the fancy brands too.

 

[katit]

That is a great point. The deferred maintenance. Some cars may run even with no oil (like Toyotas) but BMW, Land Rovers, you did not change the door handle that broke and guess what, somehow that will be connected to the crankshaft and the car will explode. It is like punishment from the German/British Car Gods. You either follow maintenance by the book or else.

That is probably the reason my 750iL is still working as expected. Best car ever, by far and I had many from all the fancy brands too.

Book is one thing. But book does not tell you to replace all cooling system at 90-100k (hoses, radiator, pump). And this seem to be a "thing" with pretty much all BMWs from 199x and on

 

[katit]

I'm a BMW fan, but even I find this statement ludicrous.

Ok, looks like we have different experience than. My experience with old BMWs that I wrench just as much as I do with LX. My new (not really new, just out of warranty) M3 does not have any issues. So, what should I take out of it? And btw, great thing Lexus has service records public - I see regular visits with my LX to a dealer during warranty and after with one thing or another. Nothing major but not oil change either. So looks like toyota breaks down and have issues too.

 

[FxFormat]

I've owned 8 BMWs in the past, ranging from 330Ci to E46 M3's to X5's to 335i's. They were all crap, great to drive, but breaks all the time. I was young, i was eager to work on cars so that's the only reason i bought them. Now that i'm older, lazier, appreciate my time more, i wouldn't touch another bimmer again. I'm also a light duty mechanic and inspector at a shop, i've seen my fare shares of BMW problems in the shop. Yes you can get lucky and have a good BMW, but a majority of it, are crap. You'll never lift up a BMW with 100K miles or more and not see an oil leak, whatever it is that BMW use for gaskets, they all fail and leak like crazy.

If i were to get another BMW, i'd only get a 2004+ E46 M3 manual, they were the most reliable BMW that's why you see their prices skyrocket recently, the same way land cruiser prices are going up, people know it's a good used car they'll pay more for it.