LS (5.3) vs Turbo Diesel (4BD1T, B3.3): Which is the better compromise? (1 Viewer)

Small diesel or 5.3?

  • Diesel (4BD1T or B3.3)

    Votes: 12 50.0%
  • LM7 5.3

    Votes: 12 50.0%

  • Total voters
    24

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HemiAlex

Long live the 2F
Supporting Vendor
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I'm working away from home with a good bit of free time, so while I'm bored in the mean time I like to think about ways to spend money that I've not made yet :bang:


I've just refreshed the top end of my 2F. The previous compression test numbers were in the 140 range. I know at 280,000 its got a good bit of life left in it. Just adjusted the valves, re did the entire cooling system, and it will get all new brakes/suspension and a birfield rebuild with wheel bearings next month. The 2F is not going to blow after this refresh, I'd like to get another 50k out of it. So this isn't a question of desperation, just planning of the future. The bragging rights to have a vehicle of this vintage and mileage, make me happy. 500k with only the head being pulled and a small refresh is nothing short of amazing.

I will be doing some off roading and extended range would be nice, also I would like to be able to pull my racecar @ 3500lbs plus trailer. I try to daily drive it as much as possible.

Bottom line: I'm in love with the truck. I really like the simple mechanical feel of it, the manual must stay, I don't want it to be super luxurious, but I'd like to increase power and mileage a bit down the line. If the 30 year old motor running on 5 cylinders got me around, this newly refreshed top end and misc items will feel like a rocketship in perspective.

Both swaps are not an issue because of the emissions exempt status of this truck.

Here are the options.

5.3 LM7

Pros:

-The engine hardware is cheap. I can get a running 100k mile dressed motor for $1000 ish around here. Low cost of entry.

-I'm familiar with this style of swap, and I've already got the fuel system for it. I swapped a 6.1 into my old car so EFI. I could go megaquirt or factory based EFI.

-Easily 360 hp, would just do a factory refreshed shortblock with Z06 or LS9 cam. Will move the truck at highway speeds easily with the H55. 200k of longevity easily.

-Parts availability is amazing and reliability. Accessories and everything is cheap.

-Readily available kits to adapt parts.

-Wide range of oil pans to aide in clearance for front differential.

-Mechanical fan can be used, accessories can easily be adapted over to the 60's AC and PS.

-Wont fare as well in a water crossing and could potentially have electrical issues.


Cons:

-Mileage will never be diesel like. What are you guys managing? I'd like to see at least 15 city to justify it all.

-Not sure if the power curve will be fine with 33 or taller tires and 3.70 gears.

-I'll have to toss out my brand new CSF radiator and cooling system.


Diesels (4BD1T and B3.3, not considering 4BT or 6BT at this point)

Pros:

-4BD1T. Second only to the 4BT in terms of knowledge base, but plenty of parts and easy to source info. Uses about the same style of adapter that the LS would use. Rebuild kits are all over and not used motors can be had with some searching.

-B3.3. New for $3500 but never used in an on the road vehicle in the states. Parts network is a little iffy, but they're out there.

-100hp and 280 lb ft would be enough to drive the truck to 70 mph, and get awesome mileage. 20+mpg

-Durability is on par with the gas engine.

-Adapters exist to use the H55F.

-If I ever got into a water crossing, the snorkel could be used and I'd have a safe motor.

-Turbo noise (I wont like, that makes me happy)


Cons:

-If something goes wrong, parts availability will likely put the truck down for a while.

-Fuel system will require better filters and pumps than the LS swaps.

-Turbo (another moving part to go wrong)

-Not required, but an intercooler is a good idea. Air to air would require creative piping and possibly cutting which I would like to avoid, air to water would be easier to package but would involve another electrical item like a Bosch Cobra water pump for the radiator.

-Eyes will likely be glued to the EGT gauge for the first few thousand miles out of paranoia.

-Will have to push for a 12v system. Glow plug starts could potentially be an issue but it doesn't get that cold in texas.

-Cost is higher than the gas engine by far.

-Engine accessories might be a pain. B3.3 is the most difficult in terms of adding AC and PS. Custom brackets more than likely. Not looking forward to that.

I've been reading threads left and right, most notably all 100+ pages of @The Phoenician whole saga of issues and triumphs. I'd really like to see his truck to help me decide.

What do all of you think?
 
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A fun bunch of options and wish you luck with either as they will both be awesome and a challenge. I went with the 5.3 Vortec with the Z06 cam and run 31's on 16" rims and 3.73 gears. If you want 15mph in town forget the gas motor combo, best i can do is 13.8 and just took a trip into the mountains and got 18.7 mph with the AC on......Not too bad and not much of a sacrifice when you consider the power and fun and performance of the V-8. No comparison! The low end of the cycle is not snappy when going from a stop but spools up rather quickly. I was not looking for tire burn outs as it is hard on everything on these 30 year old trucks but once rolling the fun starts when you put your foot into it. my motor came out of a Chevy pick up with 67K miles on it.I love the auto 4 speed and also considered the 5 speed but glad i didn't. just an awesome fun truck to drive and cruises at 80mph on the interstate. I was able to use the Toyota radiator so maybe you could still keep your upgraded cooler. Easy to find parts and even easier to find people to work on this GM drive train. Have fun!
 
A fun bunch of options and wish you luck with either as they will both be awesome and a challenge. I went with the 5.3 Vortec with the Z06 cam and run 31's on 16" rims and 3.73 gears. If you want 15mph in town forget the gas motor combo, best i can do is 13.8 and just took a trip into the mountains and got 18.7 mph with the AC on......Not too bad and not much of a sacrifice when you consider the power and fun and performance of the V-8. No comparison! The low end of the cycle is not snappy when going from a stop but spools up rather quickly. I was not looking for tire burn outs as it is hard on everything on these 30 year old trucks but once rolling the fun starts when you put your foot into it. my motor came out of a Chevy pick up with 67K miles on it.I love the auto 4 speed and also considered the 5 speed but glad i didn't. just an awesome fun truck to drive and cruises at 80mph on the interstate. I was able to use the Toyota radiator so maybe you could still keep your upgraded cooler. Easy to find parts and even easier to find people to work on this GM drive train. Have fun!

I should rephrase my goals....If I could get above 15 highway, I'd be happy. I rarely drive more than 1 mile from my home except for my 18 mile one way commute. 18.7 would thrill me and make me willing do do more weekend trips without worry.
 
Have plenty of cash: go diesel.

El cheap ass: LS engine!

Diesel is awesome but really only do it if you can afford it and just gotta have that clack clack clack!
 
Man, injector rebuilds are money. $1000-1500. No doubt, thats what a set of premium gas injectors cost for a v8....but wow. Hopefully thats an expense that doesn't pop up shortly after a huge cash expenditure like a swap...but if murphy has anything to say about it....
 
diesel guys never change....I would have to contact a good divorce lawyer if i ever were to stink up our garage again when ever i started my last diesel, ugh. You either love em or hate em. I want to add one more little goody i have discovered. The 30 yr old gauges , Eng temp and oil pressure gauge are on the blink but "Insight" has a really cool monitor that plugs into the OBD2 port and tells you everything you want to know about what is going on. Check it out. I cupped mine to the left side of the windshield right above the left AC vent and it is priceless.
Black smoke sucks, no matter how economical......
 
We're spoiled by my fiance having a newer TDI. Forget all the scandals, we want to keep it at all costs....no black smoke and 40+ mpg.

If she sells it, I'm getting her to buy an 80 series. I can work on it and there are some great cash prices on them.
 
I voted for the LS. It seems like EROD LS is the way to go IMHO from reading this site. I love the idea of the diesel but for the initial price... If money is no object go with the diesel I suppose. You could always go the biofuel route too.
 
I'd run a cable drive lm7 and refresh it from a core motor. The Erod is nice, but I've already built a 6.1 hemi from a bare block...I can manage to be way ahead with a dressed 5.3.

A little insight into my slow engine swapping skills. Let the Hemi swap begin | Gen III Hemi Tech | Moparts Forums
 
I'm kind of a poor person to get an opinion from. I had a tear able time getting my Isuzu 4bd1t to be reliable and ended up cutting my losses and sold it. I then went with a 6bt and have been nothing but happy.

I have a friend locally that has a 4BG1T swap in his 60 with a nv4500 and it's got great power and has been fairly reliable.

I really can't vote for the 5.3 vortex or 4BD1-T this is a decision you need to make your self.

I belive a 5.3 will be much cheaper to do, quicker to get done and also quicker to drive. Fuel economy will not match the diesel but availability of parts and possible drive pleasure will likely make up for it.

If your a diesel fan and can deal with there shortcomings do that. If not go with the cheap 5.3 and use technology savings in swap cost to put fuel in it.

I will say depending where you are parts for Isuzu can be hard to find and take a few days to come in from the dealer. An issue you will not have with a 5.3 vortec.

Good luck.
 
I have an '84 60 with a 4bd2t/nv4500. HX30, cooled. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Had the same rig with a crate 330 hp small block and Ranger transmission. Fast and fun, but with a diesel you're cruising, not just driving.
 
I have an '84 60 with a 4bd2t/nv4500. HX30, cooled. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Had the same rig with a crate 330 hp small block and Ranger transmission. Fast and fun, but with a diesel you're cruising, not just driving.

Your 60 puts a smile on your face every time you drive it. That's what counts. I never ever got that with the 2f.

My turbodiesel with the fuel jacked all the way out and turbo swap makes me smile every day I've driven it.

I can't speak from experience but I'm sure a 5.3 will do the same for a guy who goes through the work it takes to install one.

Is there a better v8 really??
 
It's a real nice V8. With the turbo whine of my hx30, it's easy to imagine that I'm Mel Gibson in Road Warrior with his super charger. Same sound. The diesel is just different, whether you like it or not.
 
Alex. Stop this ridiculousness and be the first to swap in a big-block Mopar. You know you want to!

383/NV4500 to the splitcase would work well...
 
I have a 4BD2t in my 60 and have driven it nearly 50k miles with no real issues, and would hop in and drive across the country right now. I frequently take it on 500 - 1500 mile trips with no more concern then any other dependable vehicle.

I have less than $2000 in my swap. This was accomplished with buying parts carefully and me doing 95% of the work, and selling off left over parts. I completed my swap in about a month of nights and weekends and then took it on 2 week trip.

It's not a rocket, but I can go up the Tejon Pass (6% grade) at 70 in 5th with AC, 3 people, 3 dogs and camping gear, while I have averaged just over 20 mpg over the last 6 years.

I'm very happy with my swap and the description of "Cruisin" is a good way to describe it...along with the smile part!

My swap is below my signature. Not as well known to the 60 side as I posted it in the Diesel Section.

Only you can the decide what is best for you.

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Alex. Stop this ridiculousness and be the first to swap in a big-block Mopar. You know you want to!

383/NV4500 to the splitcase would work well...

Sadly, I sold all of my BBM stuff years ago. I got sick of old engine problems. The 2F is built far better than those motors.


I do have a spare 6.1 long block. I know an NV would fit behind it because they made 5.7/6 speed Ram Dually trucks. That would make me happy, but thats a WIDE engine.
 
I once seen a thread where a guy said case and axles survived abuse behind a 12v for several years. Was curious about my 5 liter turbo diesel.

No problems with my 250k mile axles or rebuilt split case for almost 2 years now. I do zero wheeling but I DO like to accelerate
 

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