Fair enough. I wouldn't buy one sight unseen either. Do you know if those "Machos" were made in SA, or imported from Japan?
I know they kept making 80s in Venezuela for a while..
Long-term, which 70-series do I want? (2 Viewers)
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I know they kept making 80s in Venezuela for a while..
@Pulgasari
If you're a Land Cruiser guy, there is nothing more satisfying than owning a 70 series. They're peak Land Cruiser-ness. I've now owned 7 Cruisers, two 70 series and currently daily drive my 87 JDM BJ74 and I love it so, so much.I do wonder if a non-USDM Cruiser is the right fit for you. I feel like there are a few things someone needs to accept about a non-US Cruiser.
First is that they're old as **** since there's a 25 year import law, which speaks to reliability. Even though they age super well, they're old. Even with a ton of work and restoration, they're no longer factory fresh. I've put a lot of work into mine and it's in great shape for an unrestored 34 year old vehicle, I'd happily hop in it and drive to wherever, but occasionally my decision to drive this weird, old JDM 4x4 bites me in the ass. You can't just walk in to Autozone in a pinch and grab the parts that break (the parts that don't break during your daily drive, driveline, ect is shared across multiple platforms and easier to deal with). You've got to call any number of awesome Land Cruiser specialists who lurk around here (I'm a huge fan of @cruiseroutfit and plug them every chance I get), pay whatever they're asking and wait for parts to show up. For example: my current gremlin is a sticky starter. They're not readily available for my 13B-T and I'm putting it off as long as possible since the ones I can get are stupid expensive. I can't just go grab a reman from my local parts store and exchange them. I had the same thing with my radiator a few months ago. Old truck stuff. In order to make your life easier your only option is an HZJ73/74 since the awesome 1HZ is still in production. The 13B-T in my truck was a short production tractor motor and occasionally you've got to get creative to replace those little parts that go bad.
Safety? Well.... safe depends on how you define safe. My BJ74 is safe, I put my kid in it and we drive everywhere (I had to install a Euro spec roll bar and rear seat belts), but you need to know how to drive and what you're driving. 70 series were never brought to the US specifically because Toyota didn't think fat, lazy Americans cared enough about a rough and ready 4x4 to justify them bringing the platform up to code. Americans wanted cup holders and a smooth ride- enter the 80 Series in 1991 (which I have owned and they're also great). I don't know exactly when but they didn't start to come with any sort of ABS/VSS/Airbags was somewhere in the 2000s. Safety wise, the 25 year old Cruisers we can get are super similar to the 60 series we got in the 80s.
Off Roading features- The entire truck is an off-roading feature, sorry couldn't resist
Engine- Just get something 1HZ powered. Slow-ish, super smooth and reliable with pretty good fuel economy and plenty of parts support (just not from Autozone). I'm with you on the EV thing, there are some swaps available but they're big money for little range. Someday swaps will be more economical I'm sure, but for now just embrace the diesel. If you ended up with a 3FE/1FZ powered rig, there's plenty of parts support since those came in USDM trucks, but say goodbye to any kind of useable fuel economy, and you'll never be able to pass emissions if you live in an emissions state (diesel is more forgiving).
Your biggest limitation is your LHD requirement. This is going to be your dream killer. Because of how the Japanese are with their cars, a clean RHD JDM rig is still easy to find. They don't need 4x4s to live and they don't have high freeway speed limits, vehicles tend to be well cared for and aren't abused as much (of course their are exceptions). Land Cruiser ownership is more of a vanity thing and they get all of the high trim goodies, some specific to the Japanese market. The few LHD markets out there either use their 4x4s for their daily lives, or they live in harsh winters. From what I've seen the European rigs didn't generally get some of the cool options the JDM rigs got. Either way you'll pay a huge premium for a LHD rig that isn't as nice of what you can find out of Japan. As previously stated above, don't even bother with something from South America. Same goes from Africa or Australia. They tend to be clapped.
If I were you, and I had your requirements, I'd start trying to find a clean FZJ80 before they're all gone. Safe, and despite their additional amenities they're bombproof, capable and super reliable.
Repeat after me: SA TRUCKS ARE ALL s***BOXES…..
99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999… ~. Of the time…
End of story.
- Thread starter
- #44
Lol maybe by North American standards, but that doesn't seem to stop people down there from depending on them for their lives..
There's plenty of Sboxes right here in the US that only ever had an occasional oil change haha.
- Thread starter
- #46
Thanks for the lengthy and thoughtful post, it does a great job summarizing my overall dilemma.@Pulgasari
If you're a Land Cruiser guy, there is nothing more satisfying than owning a 70 series. They're peak Land Cruiser-ness. I've now owned 7 Cruisers, two 70 series and currently daily drive my 87 JDM BJ74 and I love it so, so much.
I do wonder if a non-USDM Cruiser is the right fit for you. I feel like there are a few things someone needs to accept about a non-US Cruiser.
First is that they're old as f*** since there's a 25 year import law, which speaks to reliability. Even though they age super well, they're old. Even with a ton of work and restoration, they're no longer factory fresh. I've put a lot of work into mine and it's in great shape for an unrestored 34 year old vehicle, I'd happily hop in it and drive to wherever, but occasionally my decision to drive this weird, old JDM 4x4 bites me in the ass. You can't just walk in to Autozone in a pinch and grab the parts that break (the parts that don't break during your daily drive, driveline, ect is shared across multiple platforms and easier to deal with). You've got to call any number of awesome Land Cruiser specialists who lurk around here (I'm a huge fan of @cruiseroutfit and plug them every chance I get), pay whatever they're asking and wait for parts to show up. For example: my current gremlin is a sticky starter. They're not readily available for my 13B-T and I'm putting it off as long as possible since the ones I can get are stupid expensive. I can't just go grab a reman from my local parts store and exchange them. I had the same thing with my radiator a few months ago. Old truck stuff. In order to make your life easier your only option is an HZJ73/74 since the awesome 1HZ is still in production. The 13B-T in my truck was a short production tractor motor and occasionally you've got to get creative to replace those little parts that go bad.
Safety? Well.... safe depends on how you define safe. My BJ74 is safe, I put my kid in it and we drive everywhere (I had to install a Euro spec roll bar and rear seat belts), but you need to know how to drive and what you're driving. 70 series were never brought to the US specifically because Toyota didn't think fat, lazy Americans cared enough about a rough and ready 4x4 to justify them bringing the platform up to code. Americans wanted cup holders and a smooth ride- enter the 80 Series in 1991 (which I have owned and they're also great). I don't know exactly when but they didn't start to come with any sort of ABS/VSS/Airbags was somewhere in the 2000s. Safety wise, the 25 year old Cruisers we can get are super similar to the 60 series we got in the 80s.
Off Roading features- The entire truck is an off-roading feature, sorry couldn't resist
Your biggest limitation is your LHD requirement. This is going to be your dream killer. Because of how the Japanese are with their cars, a clean RHD JDM rig is still easy to find. They don't need 4x4s to live and they don't have high freeway speed limits, vehicles tend to be well cared for and aren't abused as much (of course their are exceptions). Land Cruiser ownership is more of a vanity thing and they get all of the high trim goodies, some specific to the Japanese market. The few LHD markets out there either use their 4x4s for their daily lives, or they live in harsh winters. From what I've seen the European rigs didn't generally get some of the cool options the JDM rigs got. Either way you'll pay a huge premium for a LHD rig that isn't as nice of what you can find out of Japan. As previously stated above, don't even bother with something from South America. Same goes from Africa or Australia. They tend to be clapped.
If I were you, and I had your requirements, I'd start trying to find a clean FZJ80 before they're all gone. Safe, and despite their additional amenities they're bombproof, capable and super reliable.
There are a few main reasons that I want a 70 series specifically: to me, it's the best LC design by a very wide margin, and it's a platform that will be maintainable (with reasonable but not extreme) effort for many decades to come.
On LHD: I'm fully aware that this is a massive hindrance, and RHD JDM vehicles are tempting, but only slightly. I have (diagnosed) OCD, and I feel kinda irked seeing cars with steering wheels on the wrong side; for the record, I lived in a RHD country before moving back to the US, and felt the same way about LHD cars there, although they were incredibly rare. Unless my somewhat irrational belief changes significantly, I'll always think "this is wrong" when opening the right hand door to start and drive my car, it would drive me insane. Since this is a vehicle I want to and can see myself keeping for 30+ years, I don't want to regret not just buying a LHD model. I haven't seen any JDM-exclusive options yet that I absolutely want (and I'm not big into options in general, what I really want is the LC 70 platform), and we all know that conversions are a major pain.
The other really cool (personal) benefit to non-USDM vehicles is that imports fascinate me. LCs are an "if you know, you know" kind of car, and LC 70s even more so - I was on I-95 last month and saw a truck carrying 3 brand new, white LHD LC 76s and freaked out, but I'm not sure if anyone else on the highway knew what they were looking at. The story behind the LC is how I ended up here in the first place, and getting a LC with even more "story" is probably going to be my downfall, haha.
I love it! If I were you, I'd just work really hard on embracing RHD if you can. It will allow you to purchase a vehicle in good condition for 50% less. You can also do a LHD conversion using off the shelf parts, although again I'd just deal with RHD.
You’re obviously not a golfer.
???
lol well i'm not a millionaire either, so I probably won't be getting my hands on a nice 70 any time soon, no matter where it's from.
@Pulgasari I don't want to discourage you, but you will have a hard time finding what you outlined in your first post. As many have pointed out, LHD will be the first (and biggest) limiting factor.
South America is pretty much off the table (BTW @Onur - are most 70 series in SA made in Venezuela? Haven't had a definitive answer on that) due to their propensity for poor repairs and resprays. You'll have to rebuild the car (in the USA, not there - haha) once you've bought it.
The Middle East is slightly better because in some areas you don't have to deal with rust but you will still have the same issue of poor repairs, even worse maintenance, and resprays. Add to that expensive transport, language barriers, and particular idiosyncrasies of their byzantine bureaucracy.
Africa? Hah...
That leaves Europe as the only remaining market. There you have to contend with rust, and of course the typical minefield of used car buying. Many of the 70 series models will have been heavily used, for world touring (78's), or for towing/off roading (all 70's). They are also hugely in demand because importing a new one is profoundly complicated and expensive (taxes, environmental laws, etc.). So - a good 1HZ 70 series in Europe will likely stay in Europe and command a very hefty price.
You'd probably be best off looking around the IH8MUD classifieds and your local classifieds to see what people have already brought in to the USA and are selling. Finding the "golden goose" abroad is super unlikely, especially when you consider you should inspect it in person if it is used (which in all likelihood, it will be).
South America is pretty much off the table (BTW @Onur - are most 70 series in SA made in Venezuela? Haven't had a definitive answer on that) due to their propensity for poor repairs and resprays. You'll have to rebuild the car (in the USA, not there - haha) once you've bought it.
The Middle East is slightly better because in some areas you don't have to deal with rust but you will still have the same issue of poor repairs, even worse maintenance, and resprays. Add to that expensive transport, language barriers, and particular idiosyncrasies of their byzantine bureaucracy.
Africa? Hah...
That leaves Europe as the only remaining market. There you have to contend with rust, and of course the typical minefield of used car buying. Many of the 70 series models will have been heavily used, for world touring (78's), or for towing/off roading (all 70's). They are also hugely in demand because importing a new one is profoundly complicated and expensive (taxes, environmental laws, etc.). So - a good 1HZ 70 series in Europe will likely stay in Europe and command a very hefty price.
You'd probably be best off looking around the IH8MUD classifieds and your local classifieds to see what people have already brought in to the USA and are selling. Finding the "golden goose" abroad is super unlikely, especially when you consider you should inspect it in person if it is used (which in all likelihood, it will be).
You mean stonks and crypto sh!tcoins?
Like I said, you obviously aren’t a golfer.
My comment went way over your head in that it’s obvious you are ignorant about SA vehicles.
.
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Ok that was exaggeration but I'd imagine at least y'all aren't broke like me
.All jokes aside though I don't pretend to be an expert in the least and I'd defer to @Onur and pretty much anyone else on this forum on these matters. Those SA trucks can look pretty tempting though, especially when one has memories of getting schlepped around Costa Rica by beat-up troopies in their youth.
To the OP , if you want a lhd diesel 70 series then now is the time to buy one , prices are going up fast and demand is far greater then supply, Toyota sales on 70 series where declining rapidly from 1994 on ,so every year after that less got sold , in 96 the LJ/KZJ Prado got replaced by the 90 series and even those are greatly appreciating now and the fact is that the popular southern European countries almost got none of the HZJ73 models and not to many hzj75's neither and as far as I know the HZJ76 wasn't sold trough the dealership in any European country so if one shows up secondhand it goes for more then buying a brand new one .
- Thread starter
- #59
Dumb question, but by resprays, you're just referring to people covering over the original paint, right? Would this purely impact the exterior cosmetically, or is there anything else to worry about?
The good news is that I don't have to care a lot about the original vehicle's color. There are some LC 70s in really good condition, which is great, but I'd be just slightly less happy with one that's missing paint etc as long as it's just cosmetic and something that I can fix (and specify to my liking) in the future.
And I know damn well why not to import LCs from Africa...
Ok that was exaggeration but I'd imagine at least y'all aren't broke like me
All jokes aside though I don't pretend to be an expert in the least and I'd defer to @Onur and pretty much anyone else on this forum on these matters. Those SA trucks can look pretty tempting though, especially when one has memories of getting schlepped around Costa Rica by beat-up troopies in their youth.
Meh, don't obsess with what other people have in their cup and enjoy your life.
Numbers in a computer do not equate happiness, the ultimate currency.
