Long-term, which 70-series do I want? (1 Viewer)

[Pulgasari]

To the OP , if you want a lhd diesel 70 series then now is the time to buy one , prices are going up fast and demand is far greater then supply, Toyota sales on 70 series where declining rapidly from 1994 on ,so every year after that less got sold , in 96 the LJ/KZJ Prado got replaced by the 90 series and even those are greatly appreciating now and the fact is that the popular southern European countries almost got none of the HZJ73 models and not to many hzj75's neither and as far as I know the HZJ76 wasn't sold trough the dealership in any European country so if one shows up secondhand it goes for more then buying a brand new one .

After thinking it over a bit, I've realized that the easiest thing for me to forego would probably be the diesel engine; the thing is going to guzzle gas, but I'm probably not going to drive it enough to make up the price difference for at least a few years. I don't live in California, so fortunately it won't be a requirement for emissions regulations. And my eventual goal is to get rid of the engine anyway.

I don't need a car now, and couldn't even drive a car I purchased off a lot today (my DMV is backed up for 3 months with COVID, I need insurance, no experience in manuals, etc...). The bad news is that prices will go up, but on the plus side, I can wait until 2024 to get a coil suspension 2-door 70 series, or just keep my eye out for a 70 series Prado that can be imported whenever. The Prado option would be preferable, since it has 4 doors. I'll have plenty of time to decide.

All over Saudi. But good luck finding a good 25yo example.

Given that a) I'm OK without a Diesel model, and b) I don't want rust, I think a GCC import could be worthwhile. Will have to investigate import options from the Gulf more....

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Here's a 1995 with only 84k kilometers. It will have the 1FZ-F engine which, if anything, is way more power than this 70 needs. Asking price of 60k SAR ($16k US). I'm guessing it's not sold because of the price. Most of these would go for under $10k but most are really beat up as well. This one has heat and AC which is important to confirm. Many have AC with no heat. Also not every GCC model will be rust free. There's salt water around and many have rust issues. This one is in Abha which is high and dry in the mountains. Same area my Troopy came from so you can be reasonably sure it is rust free.

I personally would never go with a diesel over this particular engine but that's just my preference.

تم البيع الله يبارك للجميع

تم البيع الله يبارك للجميع ربع 1995, ربع, حراج السيارات, تويوتا صبيا thawi

haraj.com.sa

 

[flx]

Here's a 1995 with only 84k kilometers. It will have the 1FZ-F engine which, if anything, is way more power than this 70 needs. Asking price of 60k SAR ($16k US). I'm guessing it's not sold because of the price. Most of these would go for under $10k but most are really beat up as well. This one has heat and AC which is important to confirm. Many have AC with no heat. Also not every GCC model will be rust free. There's salt water around and many have rust issues. This one is in Abha which is high and dry in the mountains. Same area my Troopy came from so you can be reasonably sure it is rust free.

I personally would never go with a diesel over this particular engine but that's just my preference.

تم البيع الله يبارك للجميع

تم البيع الله يبارك للجميع ربع 1995, ربع, حراج السيارات, تويوتا صبيا thawi

haraj.com.sa

It's a beautiful one !
I may come to ask you for links once the FZJ7* turn 30 years old to be imported as collectibles in Europe


I know that on the few FZJ71 that were imported as grey market in France back then multiple of them ended up out of the road on a tree or rollover. It seems the 1FZ in a short body, rear wheel drive, leaf spring, high center of gravity vehicle is plenty powerful enough to kill you

 

[pradoblivious]

I am sorry but to included ABS and Airbags as part of the criteria in selecting a classic 70 series is just plain wrong. The lack of those is the reason why most on here love their 70 series. If those are your wants, then you will be highly disappointed about many other aspects about the 70 series. To get a good feel for what it would be like, go drive a fully loaded water truck on the freeway, with at least 10 infants next to you crying, must be 10, any less will not be representative. All while throwing 100 dollar bills out the window. When someone looks over and yells "nice jeep" you can't flip them off because it takes two hands on the wheel to keep it going straight.

Man do I love driving my 70 series....

Don't forget the part about how, even among land-cruiser specialty shops you're s*** out of luck for parts.

 

[ryanCA]

Great thread

Question for you guys:

Middle East Spec (Oman/Saudi) basically GCC

70 series troopy vs Swb? Which is easier to find for import? Anyone know the rough cost of each or difference between?

Many GCC are rough examples. Can I find one that is mechanically reliable that I can use on fire roads + farm life in USA?

I am looking for one. Prefer Petrol + A/C. Dont need heat.

Appreciate any advice.

 

[OGBeno]

Great thread

Question for you guys:

Middle East Spec (Oman/Saudi) basically GCC

70 series troopy vs Swb? Which is easier to find for import? Anyone know the rough cost of each or difference between?

Many GCC are rough examples. Can I find one that is mechanically reliable that I can use on fire roads + farm life in USA?

I am looking for one. Prefer Petrol + A/C. Dont need heat.

Appreciate any advice.

How much money you got?

70 series is akin to open market large amount drug purchase.

Serious.

There is legal and illegal.

Your appreciation for one or the other will determine your answer.

Good luck amigo.

 

[jayp2]

How much money you got?

70 series is akin to open market large amount drug purchase.

Serious.

Hi

My name is Jay


"Hi Jay"

Its been one week since my last order for 70 series parts.....

I promise I will get past this once my 40 series can legitimately carry a 1HZJT badge now that my 77 is running and street legal

 

[ryanCA]

How much money you got?

70 series is akin to open market large amount drug purchase.

Serious.

There is legal and illegal.

Your appreciation for one or the other will determine your answer.

Good luck amigo.

Gracias amigo! Always a pleasure getting advice from you. I would like to stay below $40K if possible. I am not looking to win awards at Radwood or whatever the kids are doing these days. With the 60s, 100, and 200 in the stables, I am looking for an honest driver. Good mechanics, working A/C, no rust. Rest of it I can handle.

Though I haven't drank the troopy koolaide, it seems to have much better resale in the US and commanding higher prices. I am looking for legal US ones (not necessarily CA ones), and it will be registered in another state (outside of CA), so that part is done.

I don't have a LHD/RHD preference. Just seems lots of GCC ones are coming on. I have read enough of your posts to know to stay away from certain continents. Guess JDM vs GCC and trustworthy importers is my next move. Timeline wise, I am ready to buy today.

 

[Pulgasari]

Guess JDM vs GCC and trustworthy importers is my next move. Timeline wise, I am ready to buy today.

One thing to note is that going JDM will probably give you significantly fewer options for 70 Series body styles - I don't know if the 75 Troopy was ever sold in significant quantities in Japan, every single RHD 75 Troopy I've seen was either Australian or African market. You can definitely get JDM 3-doors (73/74) and 5-doors (77/78 Prado) though.

I would recommend looking into Europe as well - Europeans love their RV trips and quite a few 75 Troopies were converted into campers for long-term overland trips (think Pan-American Highway, all of Africa, London to Singapore, etc). When I did some research a year or two ago, I found some nice late 90s/early 2000s 75 Troopies in the $25-35k range. Also, I believe some European cities are cracking down on diesel emissions, meaning that it's becoming expensive or impossible to register pre-emissions diesels in certain cities/countries. More for us across the pond!

 

[ryanCA]

One thing to note is that going JDM will probably give you significantly fewer options for 70 Series body styles - I don't know if the 75 Troopy was ever sold in significant quantities in Japan, every single RHD 75 Troopy I've seen was either Australian or African market. You can definitely get JDM 3-doors (73/74) and 5-doors (77/78 Prado) though.

I would recommend looking into Europe as well - Europeans love their RV trips and quite a few 75 Troopies were converted into campers for long-term overland trips (think Pan-American Highway, all of Africa, London to Singapore, etc). When I did some research a year or two ago, I found some nice late 90s/early 2000s 75 Troopies in the $25-35k range. Also, I believe some European cities are cracking down on diesel emissions, meaning that it's becoming expensive or impossible to register pre-emissions diesels in certain cities/countries. More for us across the pond!

Thank you, excellent info! Much appreciated.

 

[joekatana]

One thing to note is that going JDM will probably give you significantly fewer options for 70 Series body styles - I don't know if the 75 Troopy was ever sold in significant quantities in Japan, every single RHD 75 Troopy I've seen was either Australian or African market. You can definitely get JDM 3-doors (73/74) and 5-doors (77/78 Prado) though.

I would recommend looking into Europe as well - Europeans love their RV trips and quite a few 75 Troopies were converted into campers for long-term overland trips (think Pan-American Highway, all of Africa, London to Singapore, etc). When I did some research a year or two ago, I found some nice late 90s/early 2000s 75 Troopies in the $25-35k range. Also, I believe some European cities are cracking down on diesel emissions, meaning that it's becoming expensive or impossible to register pre-emissions diesels in certain cities/countries. More for us across the pond!

You can double the prices you have seen in Europe a few years ago and about 1/4 of what used to be for sale . In Europe the 7x cruiser market declined rapidly from 1995 on and from the 99plus very few where ever sold new and they are highly in demand in Europe these days .

 

[ryanCA]

You can double the prices you have seen in Europe a few years ago and about 1/4 of what used to be for sale . In Europe the 7x cruiser market declined rapidly from 1995 on and from the 99plus very few where ever sold new and they are highly in demand in Europe these days .

Well if prices are doubled, that would be $70K, then I would certainly be out of the market, and have to search a SWB 70 series

 

[Pulgasari]

Well if prices are doubled, that would be $70K, then I would certainly be out of the market, and have to search a SWB 70 series

It's not gonna be $70k unless it's the perfect spec Troopy for export to the US - less than 100k miles, good condition, bone stock, diesel, and 25 years old.

There's at least one company importing brand new 2023 LHD GRJ78s in Germany that are EU compliant. I think the price is something like €45-50k including taxes (and then you might have to pay a lot more depending on which EU country you're in, I know some countries like Denmark have new vehicle registration taxes that are over 100% the value of the car). But still, if you can get a brand new 78 for €50k, I don't think many people are expecting to sell their used 75s with hundreds of thousands of miles in Europe for more than that.

The people paying $70k pretax for Troopies are Americans who have plenty of money, want the perfect one, and need to buy used and 25 years old.

 

[Pulgasari]

You can double the prices you have seen in Europe a few years ago and about 1/4 of what used to be for sale . In Europe the 7x cruiser market declined rapidly from 1995 on and from the 99plus very few where ever sold new and they are highly in demand in Europe these days .

I was looking about a year ago, right after the Euro started tanking relative to the dollar. Would they have gone up that much in the last year?

Admittedly I wasn't looking for unicorns... I was fine with petrol and high mileage.

Edit: Also, have citywide diesel bans had any impact? Anecdotally I've seen some posts where people are looking for petrol replacements, for example a guy who wanted a UZJ100 instead of his HDJ100 because the HDJ100 wasn't allowed/worthwhile in the London ULEZ anymore.

 

[ryanCA]

@Pulgasari I am also looking for petrol/high mileage is fine. Not lookign for show quality unicorns, rather driver quality useable vehicle .

 

[joekatana]

I was looking about a year ago, right after the Euro started tanking relative to the dollar. Would they have gone up that much in the last year?

Admittedly I wasn't looking for unicorns... I was fine with petrol and high mileage.

Edit: Also, have citywide diesel bans had any impact? Anecdotally I've seen some posts where people are looking for petrol replacements, for example a guy who wanted a UZJ100 instead of his HDJ100 because the HDJ100 wasn't allowed/worthwhile in the London ULEZ anymore.

The panic sales for the LEZ zones happened more then 5 years ago already and around that time 75% of all Land Cruisers dissapeared in Central Europe , I bought a ton of them in those years and parted most of them out but started storing some of them also for later years to come .

Yes in certain places there now is a demand for gassers and many Europeans still believe you can buy a clean FZJ80 or UZJ100 here in the US for peanuts because that’s what they like to believe , anyone living here knows that the good ones are A not easy to find anymore and B getting very expensive .

As humans we always like to believe the grass is greener on the other side but anywhere in the world cruiser values are going up and conditions are going down that’s reality .

 

[flx]

There's at least one company importing brand new 2023 LHD GRJ78s in Germany that are EU compliant. I think the price is something like €45-50k including taxes

Lol that was the price 15 years ago, now it's more 75-85k€ (incl VAT and registration but no local special tax) for a brand new GRJ7* in Europe.

Ok to good HZJ75 often go for 20-25k€.
Good euro spec HZJ78 30-35k€.
Add 10k€ if fitted with a popup roof, double tank and all the gear to travel.
Add 10-15k€ for a grey market import HZJ78 post-2002.


Most people in Europe still want diesel Cruisers. Surprisingly enough FZJ80 and UZJ100 (and VZJ90, GRJ120, GRJ155) were sold in Europe (but not FJ6* for some reason), they are in absolute very rare compared to HDJ80 and HDJ100 but people have difficulty selling them, they often have a lot less miles than diesels equivalent and can be cheaper.
The LEZ area don't prevent you to own a diesel Cruiser, just to use one as a daily to go work in those big metropolitan area (which would be stupid to do anyway). And anyway old petrol car are also banned, but the limit is generally a lot older. Limits and how they work are different everywhere but for example in Paris you can't drive a diesel older than 2006 or a petrol older than 1997 (this limitation is only for week days 8h-20h, and car registered as collector are exempt...).

 

[Pulgasari]

Lol that was the price 15 years ago, now it's more 75-85k€ (incl VAT and registration but no local special tax) for a brand new GRJ7* in Europe.

Huh, I did another search and found stuff like this 2022 GRJ78 with 20 km for 53k EUR including VAT in Germany. I'm assuming there's some big catch I'm missing?

 

[flx]

Huh, I did another search and found stuff like this 2022 GRJ78 with 20 km for 53k EUR including VAT in Germany. I'm assuming there's some big catch I'm missing?

Well I don't know what is the catch or how they explain it but what for sure is that this classified isn't for an existing vehicle immediately available, it's basically an ads for their import service.
"The vehicle shown is an example vehicle."

All over Europe there are professionals that display brand new GRJ7* for sale with prices ranging from 50k€ to 85k€ but it's always very blurry what is really included in this price. At least one of the 50-55k ones indicate that this price excludes VAT.
A lot say that the truck are euro-homologated but that may be a very "blurry" statement, because yes all those trucks were outfitted (by Tom's actually which is the original importer for all other European companies I believe) with a euro6 kit to make the 1GR compliant, but that just means it will pass the pollution test. You still need to do a derogative/single homologation and registration of the car in the destination country (because yes this process is not EU standardized, and the validity is only for 1 country at a time) and this can be costly and can only be done by a professional in practice.


The only pure factual price I can provide are recent used trucks that already have a registration in an European country, so are road and registration legal for this specific country.
Germany 2021 GRJ76 53kkm 60k€ : Toyota Land Cruiser GRJ 76 Permanentallrad - https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/x/2492575500
Germany 2021 GRJ79 DC 28kkm 60k€ : Toyota für € 60.000,- - https://www.autoscout24.de/angebote/-f9e14165-b5e5-4d67-b890-4587d39bc320
Germany 2019 GRJ79 DC 54kkm 51k€ : Toyota Land Cruiser GRJ 79 - https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/x/2489150349
Germany 2021 GRJ76 6kkm 72.5k€ : https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=370373038&
Netherland 2022 GRJ79 DC 7kkm 71.5k€ : https://www.eurostocks.com/x/x/x/vehicle/2224081/toyota-land-cruiser-79-double-cabine-m0530
Sweden 2022 GRJ79 DC 6kkm 75k€ : Toyota Land Cruiser Dubbelhytt 4.0 V6 70th Anniversary - https://bilweb.se/stockholms-lan/toyota-land-cruiser-dubbelhytt-4-0-v6-70th-anniversary-2022-suv-10227212

Some new trucks that actually are already registered with a license plate and ready for immediate buy:
GRJ71 75k€ : https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2270642698
GRJ76 85k€ : https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2339585048
(and same company also has a GRJ79 SC for 80k€ and a GRJ79 DC for 85k€)


If I could have a brand new GRJ78 for 52k€ all included I think I would stretch my budget and go for it as long as it's possible but at 70k€+ it's another story :/

 

[flx]

I was surprise this company had all the models for sale except the 78 but they just reposted their classified for the GRJ78, 85k€ also https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2247347832

What may be explaining a part of the price difference is also that no one buy them base, they are generally full of options.

This thing has a LX trim with electric windows, central locking, leather steering wheel and full dashboard with tach, also has AC, double tanks, FR+RR lockers, factory winch.

Sweet sweet spec but buyers pool seems very limited.

I really like that it basically has all options but not the flares, keeps the slim profile and pizza cutters