David70FJ40
Older Than Most
The rear ring and pinion on my 40 is worn out and the pinion seal is leaking. Can someone please recommend a good locker to the rear that won't break the bank?
Locker for a 40
- Thread starter David70FJ40
- Start date
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Are you wanting a selectable locker David? If not I would recommend an Aussie locker.
Click click click
Did that annoy you? If not I agree get the Aussie locker.
Did that annoy you? If not I agree get the Aussie locker.
fourtrax
SILVER Star
+1 on the Aussie for cheap and dependable. Otherwise go selectable, look at Harrop Elocker or an arb
David,
I would suggest a selectable locker for a 40, either an ARB air locker or a Harrop E-locker. In a street driven 40, selectable is the only choice IMO, regardless of cost.
I say this because I have a 40 with a mechanical (Detroit) locker in the rear. The clicking and banging does not bother me but the truck is really a handful to drive on the road, especially in curves. The mechanical locker introduces a quarter rotation of driveline "slack" (for lack of a better word) in the application of power through the driveshaft. Feathering the throttle on / off through a sweeping curve results in the truck steering itself, often times not in the direction you want it to. Let off the throttle, truck heads for the ditch...give it gas, truck tries to go into the other lane. Steering is a constant battle to compensate for the locker. This problem is common to all mechanical lockers, but in a super short wheelbase vehicle like a 40, it is very noticeable and it takes the fun out of driving it. I have seriously considered taking out the locker. If you want to drive my truck to see what it feels like, you are welcome to any time.
I have a mechanical Aussie locker in my 60. It has the same tendencies to self-steer, but to a much smaller degree. It is barely noticeable. The extra wheelbase in the 60 make all the difference in the world. I actually like the Aussie in the 60. I would never recommend it in a 40. My .02
I would suggest a selectable locker for a 40, either an ARB air locker or a Harrop E-locker. In a street driven 40, selectable is the only choice IMO, regardless of cost.
I say this because I have a 40 with a mechanical (Detroit) locker in the rear. The clicking and banging does not bother me but the truck is really a handful to drive on the road, especially in curves. The mechanical locker introduces a quarter rotation of driveline "slack" (for lack of a better word) in the application of power through the driveshaft. Feathering the throttle on / off through a sweeping curve results in the truck steering itself, often times not in the direction you want it to. Let off the throttle, truck heads for the ditch...give it gas, truck tries to go into the other lane. Steering is a constant battle to compensate for the locker. This problem is common to all mechanical lockers, but in a super short wheelbase vehicle like a 40, it is very noticeable and it takes the fun out of driving it. I have seriously considered taking out the locker. If you want to drive my truck to see what it feels like, you are welcome to any time.
I have a mechanical Aussie locker in my 60. It has the same tendencies to self-steer, but to a much smaller degree. It is barely noticeable. The extra wheelbase in the 60 make all the difference in the world. I actually like the Aussie in the 60. I would never recommend it in a 40. My .02
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David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #6
Can I get a complete diff, ring, pinion and locker as a single unit?
fourtrax
SILVER Star
The diff would be the housing itself
The carrier could be factory, the Harrop, or the ARB
The gears would attach to the carrier.
The carrier would attach to the diff.
In the factory carrier you have spider gears that allow the two axle halves to turn into independently (called an open diff) you can replace the spider gears with a locker "insert" which would allow the two axle shafts turn together under power but independently when coasting.
To answer your question. Yes you could buy a diff with a carrier and gears all setup together and then install it in your axle. It would be a package someone like ECGS could assemble for you.
You can pull out your diff and have the carrier replaced with a selectable one and have new gears installed. Then just reinstall your diff. That would be the most economical option.
I do agree with everyone on some quarky driving carateristics of a locker on the road. It is nice to have a selectable option.
The carrier could be factory, the Harrop, or the ARB
The gears would attach to the carrier.
The carrier would attach to the diff.
In the factory carrier you have spider gears that allow the two axle halves to turn into independently (called an open diff) you can replace the spider gears with a locker "insert" which would allow the two axle shafts turn together under power but independently when coasting.
To answer your question. Yes you could buy a diff with a carrier and gears all setup together and then install it in your axle. It would be a package someone like ECGS could assemble for you.
You can pull out your diff and have the carrier replaced with a selectable one and have new gears installed. Then just reinstall your diff. That would be the most economical option.
I do agree with everyone on some quarky driving carateristics of a locker on the road. It is nice to have a selectable option.
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S4Cruiser
SILVER Star
Solid advice from both Dave and Eric!
I have a lockrite (same design as Aussie) in the rear of my grey 40. If you aren't accustomed to the ratcheting action it can catch you off guard, especially when turning and not keeping constant throttle pressure. ratchet ractchet, bang, need new draws type of surprise the first time it happens!
If money isn't a deciding factor then go with a selectable locker in the rear. Keep in mind going this route will require the addition of an air compressor (to actuate the locker) and switches to turn on the compressor and actuate the locker.
As Eric mentioned, give the guys at East Coast Gear Supply in Raleigh a call. They are one of the best gear shops in the country and can give you an over the phone quote on price/options.
I have a lockrite (same design as Aussie) in the rear of my grey 40. If you aren't accustomed to the ratcheting action it can catch you off guard, especially when turning and not keeping constant throttle pressure. ratchet ractchet, bang, need new draws type of surprise the first time it happens!
If money isn't a deciding factor then go with a selectable locker in the rear. Keep in mind going this route will require the addition of an air compressor (to actuate the locker) and switches to turn on the compressor and actuate the locker.
As Eric mentioned, give the guys at East Coast Gear Supply in Raleigh a call. They are one of the best gear shops in the country and can give you an over the phone quote on price/options.
In my old 80 now Rymer’s it did not bother me in the slightest. I put it in well over 10 years ago and unless I’m wrong it’s still in Eric’s 80. With that being said, I’ve only had one in an 80 and like Dave said the extra wheel base makes a huge difference in the way it will handle versus a 40. That’s why I asked if he wanted a selectable locker. If budget won’t allow for it and you really wanted a locker in your 40 I’d go with the Aussie over other brands. With that said I do agree with @roadstr6 in that I would have to want a locker REALLY bad before I put a lunchbox locker in a street driven 40.
I agree 100 percent. East Coast Gear Supply did the rear third in my green 80 and did top notch work and were fantastic to deal with. I’d definitely talk with them and discuss some options
fourtrax
SILVER Star
The Harrop is electric, no compressor or airlines to fiddle with all the time. Just a simple switch to turn it on /off
David,
We talked about this a little bit during the Christmas Party. I am a cheap ass and here's what I would do. Mark the position of the nut holding the drive flange to the pinion gear. Unstake the nut and remove it. Pull the seal and replace. Reinstall the flange and nut and tighten it 1/4 turn past where it was and re-stake. See if that fixes your loose lash problem. If it does, fine. If not, either get a new ring and pinion with all new bearings OR pull your front diff and swap it to the rear and swap your worn one to the front. They are totally interchangeable and your front probably has less than 5K mile on it because it is rarely turning. Chances are your worn rear diff will do just fine in the front for many, many years of off-roading. With it only spinning when you're in 4wd, it probably won't leak much if any at all. That's my el cheapo fix. It will cost you a pinion seal and either a couple of diff gaskets or a tube of FIPG. This is a good time to go ahead and do the knuckles because you will need to pull out the front axles a little bit to pull the front diff. Some disassembly is required. If you decide to do the knuckles, Trail Gear kit is $120. You can opt not to mess with the knuckles right now and use a tube of FIPG to seal the ends back up for a knuckle job to happen later. It is nice to have options. This option buys you some time and doesn't cost much.
We talked about this a little bit during the Christmas Party. I am a cheap ass and here's what I would do. Mark the position of the nut holding the drive flange to the pinion gear. Unstake the nut and remove it. Pull the seal and replace. Reinstall the flange and nut and tighten it 1/4 turn past where it was and re-stake. See if that fixes your loose lash problem. If it does, fine. If not, either get a new ring and pinion with all new bearings OR pull your front diff and swap it to the rear and swap your worn one to the front. They are totally interchangeable and your front probably has less than 5K mile on it because it is rarely turning. Chances are your worn rear diff will do just fine in the front for many, many years of off-roading. With it only spinning when you're in 4wd, it probably won't leak much if any at all. That's my el cheapo fix. It will cost you a pinion seal and either a couple of diff gaskets or a tube of FIPG. This is a good time to go ahead and do the knuckles because you will need to pull out the front axles a little bit to pull the front diff. Some disassembly is required. If you decide to do the knuckles, Trail Gear kit is $120. You can opt not to mess with the knuckles right now and use a tube of FIPG to seal the ends back up for a knuckle job to happen later. It is nice to have options. This option buys you some time and doesn't cost much.
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fourtrax
SILVER Star
Solid advice right there.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #14
Spoke with East Coast Gear this morning. The complete job, selectable Harrop locker, new ring and pinion, switches and wiring, all labor, complete turn key job, $3k. More than I expected but I get new parts, warranty on new parts and labor plus the confidence it is done properly without me screwing something up.
Comments?
Comments?
fourtrax
SILVER Star
The Harrop itself is about 1.3k
The gear set is about 225
Gear install kit is about 125
Maybe 100 in the switch and some wiring and adapter to put in the hole they drill and tap on your axle for the wire come out.
Are they replacing axle bearings or wheel seals while they pull the axle shafts out?
since you're taking it off road are they installing a solid spacers instead of a crush sleeve? He's probably include some new differential housing gasket
These items will bunp up the cost a little bit more.
so you're getting about two grand worth of parts and putting about a grand in labor / taxes. You could probably do it yourself or get some buddies to help and save a little bit. but at the end of the day I probably wouldn't take a chance on eating the parts just because I made a little mistake on the assembly.
The gear set is about 225
Gear install kit is about 125
Maybe 100 in the switch and some wiring and adapter to put in the hole they drill and tap on your axle for the wire come out.
Are they replacing axle bearings or wheel seals while they pull the axle shafts out?
since you're taking it off road are they installing a solid spacers instead of a crush sleeve? He's probably include some new differential housing gasket
These items will bunp up the cost a little bit more.
so you're getting about two grand worth of parts and putting about a grand in labor / taxes. You could probably do it yourself or get some buddies to help and save a little bit. but at the end of the day I probably wouldn't take a chance on eating the parts just because I made a little mistake on the assembly.
Good plan. Not a cheap plan, but a good plan. I think you will like the Harrop locker. I've heard nothing but good things.
David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #17
Thanks Dave! Received an email from East Coast Gear last night stating the Harrop locker would not fit on a full float axle. I replied that I didn't believe the one in my 40 was full float. They also recommended switching to the ARB but I prefer the electric switching.
fourtrax
SILVER Star
Electric switching for the win in my book.
Your axle is not a FF. You should be good. The Harrop does work on the 80 series with a FF. The diffs themselves are interchangeable between 40 and 80 rear (although spline count and flange pattern may be different) so I’m not sure why ECGS told you that. Maybe Harrop has a different PN for the 40 series vs. 80 series. Scratching head.... Anyway...go for it!
I believe Marshall has installed quite a few of the Harrops. It might be worth a call to him to provide a little insight.
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David70FJ40
Older Than Most
- Thread starter
- #20
I was told on a phone call this morning that the Harrop didn't allow for the "C" clips to be installed and the ARB did. Not knowing anything much about the differentials I told them to go for the ARB. Saved me $425.
