Let it Begin! 87 frame off, vortec, H55...

[M1A1cruiser]

Question:
Powder coating the frame: is it just a candy shell if the inner part of the rails can't be covered? Why not just paint or POR-15 in my garage?

Galvanizing w/PC on top: Driving across three states over multiple weekends at ~$1500 total dollars.

This is a summary of a much longer post that I'll spare you - I generally grasp the challenges and benefits of the different processes - just wondering if there's any benefit to ONLY powder coating or if I should invest the time and money for the full monty.

Thanks for any experienced opinions or thoughts.

TDC.-

 

[tat2matt]

When I was looking at the same idea there was a guy in Saint Louis that did a hot dip galviniving and powdercoating for the power companies. He did all the towers in the mid west and had tests of his tower heads in salt water and they didn't rust. I talked to him about the frame of my truck but the 3k was too much for me. THere may be someone out there that does something similar for cheaper. Good Luck

 

[M1A1cruiser]

I've found galvanizing for $0.63 per pound...so figure ~$300 for that + $450 for PC at same place.

But I've gotta strip all paint first - HDG won't stick where there's remaining paint. So chem dip ~$500 + cost to take frame to Eugene (hello more WagonGear!) and then to SLC.

It's really the road time that has me thinking simple paint or local PC - but is that just window dressing???
There's the crux!

 

[MANUCHAO]

if your frame has no rust I would just either paint it or PC it... thats what I did with the two frames I worked with..
you could drop that $$ into a nice bumper or winch
there is a guy in san diego that is just about to start a frame swap.. he had the frame galvanized n PC'ed.. n also has a 5.3 in it...
you might want to ask him how much he would let it go for...

 

[scrapdaddy]

Travis,

My 2 cents, Sandblast your frame and use the internal frame coating, from Eastwood. Turn the frame end over end and respray, the can has a long tube on it, so it reaches pretty far in. When it drys, do it again. When you think it's coated good, then paint your frame with your product of choice. I used " Chassis Saver ". Very hard paint and looks good.

With your frame coated that way, it will out last the body and all of us. Save your money.

Ron

 

[djawahir]

I'm happy with my galv and pc. And as Manuchao said, I'm going to be selling my 60 frame once I get the 80 frame ready for the swap. I'll probably galvanize and powdercoat the 80 frame before I throw it under my truck. My 60 frame won't be ready for a few months, but if you're interested drop me a line.

 

[M1A1cruiser]

Cooling OCD

So, my latest distraction - and thing that I am finding I know nothing about - is the steam tube/engine vent line.

I get the theory...air/steam in the cooling system is bad and there needs to be a point (preferably/presumably the high point) in the system to allow steam and air to move to a low-pressure area and leave the system.

I've browsed through the good info here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/#LSCoolingSystems

I have the FSM for my engine and L/C.
I've referenced alldata
I grasp that I can intersect the top rad hose with a JTR adapter - but I don't know WHY I would do that if it seems that there is a part built into the engine to accomplish this.

Chevy calls this the 'air bleed pipe assembly. Doesn't this do the job of letting steam out of the cooling system? (photo from 'net - truck engines (like mine) only have the tube across the front)

If anyone can answer these, maybe that'll help;
-Does the Chevy "Air Bleed Pipe Assembly" serve the same purpose as the Rad hose 'T'- steam vent line from JTR?

-Why do some manuals reference needing to tap the block (the back specifically) for a steam vent tube? Especially if there is this thing? Is this reference to tapping the block to vent a different part - or for engines where the pictured part doesn't exist?

-Why does the Chevy part "vent" to the bottom of the throttle body?

-Why is there a zirc looking thing on top of my water pump and why did my PO run the vent line there instead of to the bottom of the throttle body as Chevy intended? Is this OK?

I wouldn't mind just mimicing the Chebby system - that's what I am doing with a lot of the other 'component' type systems to support the engine best - but a new Rad, pressurized purge tank, etc, etc is just more stuff (and stuff that I haven't seen everyone else do) so I am hesitant.

Thanks, as always for tolerating my long posts and inexperienced questions.

T.-

 

[dbleon]

I used the JTR bleed off in the highest point in the system (top rad. hose - middle)...

zero cooling related problems.

I am thinking it may be bad to cap that steam feature of the vortec like some people do.

I think as long as its tied into coolant you are OK.

And pressurized coolant tank??... No idea one that one..

 

[scrapdaddy]

Travis,

I just ran out to the shop, to see mine, it's the same as yours.

I can't help with your questions, not to that point yet. Wanted to let you know, maybe came from the factory that way.

Ron

 

[M1A1cruiser]

I said it would be slow....

Well, it's been forever since I updated this and even though I haven't been able to get that much accomplished on the truck I'll throw this out there - maybe someone will benefit from the couple steps down this path I've taken.

Bumper is almost done. I bought the kit from 'fourrunner' here on 'mud' and echo what others have said: the design and fit are great. If you don't have the ability to visualize and fabricate your own this is a GREAT alternative to four+ or ARB, et al. What took me so long was trying to figure a latch system that made me happy. That and weld, grind, family/work/rest, weld another piece, grind, grind grind, work, weld...you get the idea. I never could just dedicate a day to zap it all up.

I had a 'pop pin' or 't-handle' (the little spring loaded jobbers that one end secures into a hole) as a first solution, but it just didn't seem secure especially considering the weight of the tire that would be (probably) pulling, rattling, etc against the pin.

The I tried the straight de-sta-co latch - just up and down across the gap between the swingarm and the bumper. This seems to be the most common way to go, and it appears to work very well but I just couldn't make myself happy that the vertical orientation would keep the swing arms from moving.

So, I finally settled on this:

I tried the 90* latch in many places and orientations but in most of those places there wasn't room for the bale to move enough to release from the hook. This way the swing arms will be pulled in toward the truck and (presumably, hopefully) be more secure. A little more work to do here obviously but I think it's a done deal.

I did also get the new fuel lines run. Can I just say how much of a PITA it is finding clips to secure the lines to the frame!? The original clips are for 5/16" line, the new line is 3/8" supply and return. All the clips I found (summit, jegs, local places) for 3/8" line, the bolt hole is too small to accommodate the LC bolts to the frame. Given the sponginess of the rubber in the original clips it looks like I'll be able to make them work to hold the lines in place; of course they're not available new either.

Also received the new fuel tank that is shown in CAD in earlier posts, and F'ed around with it a little - it's kinda hard figuring out how to mount to those rear mounting points if you're not using the original straps. Kinda makes me wish I'd gone the route of modding a 58 psi pump rather than building a tank around the pump. Live and learn. It is a pretty slick tank though...something that is hard to explain: "yeah honey, I did have a gas tank when I bought it but...but...but...

I put the toyota sender into the shallower part of this fuel tank. It won't be exactly accurate - the guage will show empty when there's still probably a couple gallons in the tank, but I figure that's better than the other way around, and also it's the solution that works for me. Again, more confident going this way than modding the new fuel pump to use both chev and Toyota senders on the same unit. I'll post pics of this next time I take the tank out. Of course this necessitated buying a new tool that I will almost surely never have another use for again - the nutsert (or rivnut) tool. Cool thing, but pretty damn specific.

So, I guess all that writing for not much visible progress makes me feel a little better. Now I'll just wait for the fam to wake up so I can start pounding and grinding on s*** again.

Next step is getting it ALL taken apart again to get the frame to the PC'ers (assuming I don't succumb to temptation and offer to by DJAWAHIRs already done frame ).

Happy new year. Be safe. ,
Travis.-

 

[Zack1978]

I assume that you are not going to galvanize the frame?


Zack

 

[Elbert]

So, my latest distraction - and thing that I am finding I know nothing about - is the steam tube/engine vent line.

I get the theory...air/steam in the cooling system is bad and there needs to be a point (preferably/presumably the high point) in the system to allow steam and air to move to a low-pressure area and leave the system.

I've browsed through the good info here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/#LSCoolingSystems

I have the FSM for my engine and L/C.
I've referenced alldata
I grasp that I can intersect the top rad hose with a JTR adapter - but I don't know WHY I would do that if it seems that there is a part built into the engine to accomplish this.

Chevy calls this the 'air bleed pipe assembly. Doesn't this do the job of letting steam out of the cooling system? (photo from 'net - truck engines (like mine) only have the tube across the front)



If anyone can answer these, maybe that'll help;
-Does the Chevy "Air Bleed Pipe Assembly" serve the same purpose as the Rad hose 'T'- steam vent line from JTR?

-Why do some manuals reference needing to tap the block (the back specifically) for a steam vent tube? Especially if there is this thing? Is this reference to tapping the block to vent a different part - or for engines where the pictured part doesn't exist?

-Why does the Chevy part "vent" to the bottom of the throttle body?


-Why is there a zirc looking thing on top of my water pump and why did my PO run the vent line there instead of to the bottom of the throttle body as Chevy intended? Is this OK?



I wouldn't mind just mimicing the Chebby system - that's what I am doing with a lot of the other 'component' type systems to support the engine best - but a new Rad, pressurized purge tank, etc, etc is just more stuff (and stuff that I haven't seen everyone else do) so I am hesitant.

Thanks, as always for tolerating my long posts and inexperienced questions.

T.-

You should check around but I believe what people do is mimic the GM setup.... is it not correct that you need to plumb in a fitting at the radiator for the steam vent or whatever GM calls that?

 

[scrapdaddy]

Hey Travis,

Good seeing an update. The tank looks great, but let me ask you about the return line. I thought you didn't need one with the newer vortecs. I haven't gotten to that yet, but hadn't planned on running a return, at least from the motor back.

Thanks, Ron

 

[M1A1cruiser]

Few quick answers to the above:

Zack, no I won't galvanize. The place closest to me requires bare metal (they won't dip twice like some places will - once to strip any remaining paint and/or debris and once to zinc coat) so I would have had to have the frame chemical dipped and the place that does that nearest me (350 mi away) couldn't guarantee that 1987 frame paint would be totally stripped. So, all that said, I'll have the frame sand blasted and PC'd and then work the insides the best I can and I think it'll still outlast most things on the road.

Elbert,
The place I got the engine from 'vented' the steam tube into the water pump so I guess that's close to GM's intent of keeping the steam/coolant in a closed loop. I may get a new radiator and make it all exactly like chevy but for the initial run I'll keep the steam line to the water pump (I've seen many others go this route too - not my 100% preference, but...it'll ride for now).

Ron,
I think 2003 (the year of my engine) was a break year for the fuel return line. My motor also has the fuel pressure regulator built into the fuel rail so I won't need the combo filter regulator that most run. I would've liked a returnless system (seems like one less "system" that I can screw up) but it is here now so I'll need, and use a line from the motor back to the tank/pump. I'll be setting up the charcoal canister too (EVAP solenoid, vent solenoid, etc).

more to follow - some decent progress today on the bumper and latches.

TDC.-

 

[M1A1cruiser]

I know it's forever between updates here, but believe it or not I DO actually accomplish a LITTLE bit of work on the L/C between kids, work and holidays.

I realize the below is NOTHING compared to some of the complete body rebuilds, but I am pretty happy with my rust replacement. Again remember this is a guy who had done ZERO in terms of body work, much less welding sheet metal.

This is all that was visible from the outside:

Which turned into this:

And this

And finally:

I plan to do the rockers in monsta-liner; I tried a couple of different lines (where you can see the primer and the black rattle-can above) and decided to go with the lower body line. I bought some of the freeborn red spray paint from CruiserCorps. It looks like a fair match, especially once I get a chance to sand properly, pt on a couple coats and top coat with clear. But not bad for just shooting it on there.

Also got the body raised off the frame, pulled the powertrain back out and began dropping the axles in hopes of getting the frame pressure washed, sand blasted and powder coated by the end of Feb.

Anybody want that gas tank? It'd be a bitch to ship (probably a pallet) but if a 'mudder' wants it we can work it out.

Bumper is pretty much done too. A little more grinding here and there, and I've gotta figure out what I want to do with the other swing arm (probably gas cans...) and get it PC'd too. I think I'll add a couple of support pads under the ends swing arms - away from the spindles - to help alleviate stress on the spindle, rattling, etc. So...almost...

That's it for now. I feel like I'm getting closer and then I remember: wiring, interior, cooling, etc., etc.

Next up to view here will probably be axle rebuilds.

Best regards,
TDC.-

 

[M1A1cruiser]

I mentioned wiring above.

Can I just say how much I hate T-clips. I uderstand that it is ONE way to interrupt a circuit and provide power to other stuff...a trailer harness seems to be the most common...but damn it really does leave much to be desired in terms of long term durability, not to mention aesthetics.

This is a horrible photo (I couldn't get the cheap-o camera to focus on the wires) but you can still tell how degraded the wires - and thus the circuit - is. No wonder there are intermittent problems - especially with a wire bundle that was exposed to the environment - just below the rocker panel in rear - between the tail lights.

Question: Are the pins available to rebuild (i.e. put new wire from point 'A' to point 'B') between harness connections or do most of you just get a new connector when/if you do wiring?

 

[scrapdaddy]

Hey Travis,

I'd say you're moving forward, by looking at all you've done. Good Job!

On your frame, really think hard about anything that needs to be welded , holes drilled, etc. before the powder coating. On mine, I've already added to it a half dozen times, since painting. Paint makes for easy touchup.

One step closer! Ron

 

[scrapdaddy]

Travis,

What's your plan for the axles? Lockers and stuff.

 

[M1A1cruiser]

I hadn't thought of locking the axles - well I had thought of it, but really only in terms of finding OEM cable lockers somewhere (haha right?).

But...it is quite an increase in capability - and I don't really plan on being this deep in again so maybe, maybe.

If I can't find cable type I'll go air. I won't be crawling this truck: hunting where there are NO roads, yeah; forest service roads, sure; road trips with family and kayaks and bikes, yeah. So that pretty much rules out full-time diff locks.

I'd be interested in opening a little discussion here if anyone 1) has cable lockers to sell me (!) Or 2) has guidance/thoughts/opinions on air lockers. For instance, I don't even understand if air lockers would also require FF in the rear?
Thanks,
Trav

 

[NolanFJ60]

Lockers

To answer your question you do NOT need a FF rear. Air lockers are a great choice because of how nice they are onroad(completely open diff) and then for offroad-completely locked. Whereas most other lockers will act goofy every now and then on the road when you're are turning. Plus if you go with air lockers you'll have an onboard compressor so you'll be able to air down your tires when you get to the trail.