leaks or “cheap fixes” (negotiating tactics)

[landcruiser3DP]

looking for a 96/7 LX/LC

spoke to a guy that says his LC has a good sunroof but some dampness in the back of the vehicle interior. somewhere i thought i read that a sunroof leak can sometimes (?) be an easy fix by just cleaning them out somehow (?). too many other problems with that vehicle.

but, i got to wondering if there are some obvious problems that a “mall cruiser” might have that would be easy fixes. i mean, is there anything an owner might think is very costly (or terminal) that would be an easy fix?!

i’m a new-ish wrench. also new to the boards so advance apologies if that’s a dumb question.

 

[cbpeck]

Cleaning the sunroof drain tubes is one example. Two are located in the front two corners of the sunroof opening and run down the a pillar through the floor board near the rocker. Two more go toward the back.
If an 80 has F&R lockers that haven't been used in a while they may not engage. If they do engage, they may struggle to disengage. Exercising them in & out on gravel over a few days often fixes the problem.
Sometimes a cruiser is missing one of the two drive belts. They are supposed to run in parallel, so only seeing one is an indication of an unknowledgeable owner, but also an easy fix.
A torn intake boot can cause the engine to run poorly. The symptoms may seem severe, but replacing the leaky boot is sometimes an easy fix.

In every one of these cases, there's a potential worse diagnosis as well, so be mindful of that. Overall though, these trucks are amazingly rugged and capable of sustaining quite a bit of neglect. In most cases, you'll want to do a pretty thorough baselining of the truck, so keep that factored into your budget

 

[Malleus]

The sunroof has four drains, one in each corner. Large diameter polyethylene tubing runs from the corners of the drains (you can easily see them when the sunroof is open) to the drain output locations. In the case of the front drains, it's the pockets behind the plastic kickpanels, and ultimately the rocker panels.

In the case of the rear drains, the tubing runs from the sunroof pan, 90° around the rear door "C" pillar and down under the rear sliding windows, exiting behind the rear wheel. You can see them if look under the truck, behind the wheel; they protrude about 3 inches and are cut on a bias.

If the rear of the truck is wet, the tubing is likely pinched at the 90° bend. You have to pull the trim to get at it. There is supposed to be a stiff plastic spiral wrap around the tubing to prevent this, but it doesn't work as advertised. (see @ZeGerman's definitive post on the subject)

 

[cruiserdan]

There are four sunroof drains. One at each corner of the pan. The rear tubes run down the C pillars , over the rear wheelhousings and exiting behind the rear wheels.



Edit: Beat to the punch by seconds.....

 

[Malleus]

Read the FAQ section.

 

[cbpeck]

I stand corrected. Thanks, guys.

 

[Rifleman]

As many other members have pointed out the sun roof drains are a possible sources of your water leaks. One other location that can be a source of water leaks in the rear of your truck. Can come from the trim molding located between the C, and D pillers, right next to the rear sliding windows. That trim is held on with small plastic clips, water can get underneath that trim, and leak past those clips. An easy way to check for this leak, is to remove your rear inner plastic trim panels. Then have someone spray the outside of your truck with a garden hose. If that's a source of your leak, you can buy new trim moldings from Toyota. To keep the new moldings from leaking, some people put a small dab of sealant on each plastic tab that holds the molding in place.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

hi guys.

many thanks. anyone mind if i drop in some more questions? i'm trying to put together a bit of a "cheat sheet" and the help would be really welcome.

so if i narrow things down to what seem like a "mall cruiser" - basically with the idea that i find someone that has a clean vehicle and things "feel right" -

A. if there is a leak in the interior it /could/ be an easy fix or it could be a bigger problem?
B. A/C not blowing cold is a reasonably straightforward job with not a lot of cost?
C. on the heater hose does the heater not blow hot or is this strictly preventive maintenance
D. can i turn the steering wheel full left and full right and drive at low speed and determine if the brindle/knuckles (not really sure what is involved here) are OK? or basically if they haven't been done you are likely going to have to do them? can i look for grease up in them and not see leaking and know they are OK?
E. where is the intake boot? engine can sound rough if it is torn? or it could be something major i suppose?
F. can i /inspect/ a head gasket and know it looks OK?
G. should i get a compression check on the vehicle?
H. stand on the bumpers and see how the shocks perform?
I. if i see a 492 code (or whatever it is exactly) and i see the center differential lock (round knob i think) and i see a rectangular knob (front and rear differential lock?) - and if the car is clean without apparent 4WD abuse - can i reasonably expect things to be OK? or was there more to the front and rear or even the center differential?

anything i am missing? i realize it is a lot of questions.

advance apologies for my learning curve. after having taught myself to wrench on a 93 r100gs it's going to be a little time before i am savvy with the terminology. just visualizing things that are explained can be a bit tricky if you haven't put your hands on things.

THANKS

jon

 

[cbpeck]

I'll echo what someone else said: read the FAQ and the Slee 80 Newbie Guide. But I'll also tackle questions D & E.

Turning sharp at slow speed can generate a clicking noise that indicates the birfield joints inside the knuckle are excessively worn, likely from lack of maintenance, and probably in need of replacement. New birfields can be costly. If the knuckles have caked on grease and oil where they pivot on the axle housing it's an indication that the inner axle seal failed some time ago and the differential oil leaked into the knuckles, diluted the grease, and then leaked out of the knuckles. You can probably guess that this would cause premature birfield wear. It's all diy serviceable, and is a rite of passage to many 80 owners, but is a substantial job.

The intake boot is the big rubber hose that connects the air filter to the throttle body. You can't miss it. They last a long time, but not forever.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

hey man

thanks. appreciate the help.

i should have mentioned i have the FAQ printed out along with other materials. i went over them one a year ago and reviewed them last week.

somehow it helps getting it on a forum since it usually gets put a slightly different way but also it reinforces (or reminds me) something i may have understood or missed or just needed to hear another way.

also being able to follow up with a question is super helpful.

THANKS

jon

also took someone’s advice and bought an owner’s manual to try and familiarize myself with the center, front and rear differentials (but these are still a bit hazy at this point to be honest).

 

[baldilocks]

Dear @hotwheels2017, I suggest that that you buy a brand new jeep or prepare to spend a boat load of money on an 80 series that has already been restored. I am not trying to be an ass, but, your questions indicate that your "old fixer upper Land Cruiser" experience will be very painful......... This is a serious suggestion and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Malleus]

OK, I'll bite.

One word of advice before you start: if you're serious about owing a Land Cruiser and want to maintain it yourself, buy the Factory Service Manual (FSM). You can download a copy here, buy a new/used paper copy (has to be a Toyota branded publication, IMO), or download the whole thing, plus every other piece of information Toyota published at TIS (a 2-day subscription is all you need):
For Sale - 40, 50, 60, and 80 series FSM for a hell of a price.
https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=ti_home_page&contextType=external&username=string&password=secure_string&challenge_url=https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/login/techinfo&request_id=6841849349380041924&authn_try_count=0&locale=en_US&resource_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%2F

These trucks aren't complicated, mostly, and are very reliable. You can pay anywhere from $1000 to $25,000; what you pay is entirely up to you. I've owned every model, except the FJ55, and this one has been my favorite since it was introduced.

A. Maybe, probably. I described the entire system for you. So did @Rifleman.
B. Maybe. Can't tell from here. Usually it's low refrigerant that is the problem. Could be a belt. (loose or missing)
C. Don't know what you're asking. Land Cruisers have engine coolant based heating systems. If the cooling system integrity is good, the heater should work. Hot water is cycled through the heater core, behind the dash, and a fan blows air across it. That's all there is to it. If the cooling system is OK and the heater doesn't work, the valve needs to be replaced. It's on the center of the firewall, in the engine bay; takes 10 minutes.
(immediately above the blue topped part in the photo)
D. Yes. Yes. No.
E. Big black tube; runs from the air cleaner to the throttle body. Yes. Yes; don't know.
(looks kind of brown here, but it's black)

F. Yes, but you have to remove the head. If there is coolant in the oil, the head gasket is definitely leaking. I've never worried about it.
G. Yes. Do it yourself, the tools are $30. Take pictures and save yourself the cost of pen and paper.

H. No. One of my 80s has 260k on it. The shocks are gone (they're the originals), and I can jump up and down all I want. The chassis never bounces. You can drive it and tell the ride is not as smooth as it was when it was new.
I. The VIN label, on the driver's door describes the options. The next to last line (on one of mine) looks like this:

C/TR: color/trim
045 = white, FN41 = brown fabric seats and door panel inserts (LB41 is brown leather)
A/TM: axle/transmission
K292 = open differentials, front and rear (K294 would be electrically locked differentials)
A343F = transmission model code (4-speed automatic)
FZJ80L-GNPEKA: frame type (US spec with lift up rear door and tailgate)

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Dear @hotwheels2017, I suggest that that you buy a brand new jeep or prepare to spend a boat load of money on an 80 series that has already been restored. I am not trying to be an ass, but, your questions indicate that your "old fixer upper Land Cruiser" experience will be very painful......... This is a serious suggestion and I wish you the best of luck.

thanks. appreciate the input. every time in the past i’ve run my tacoma around to the back of the dealer for brought my tacoma

OK, I'll bite.

One word of advice before you start: if you're serious about owing a Land Cruiser and want to maintain it yourself, buy the Factory Service Manual (FSM). You can download a copy here, buy a new/used paper copy (has to be a Toyota branded publication, IMO), or download the whole thing, plus every other piece of information Toyota published at TIS (a 2-day subscription is all you need):
For Sale - 40, 50, 60, and 80 series FSM for a hell of a price.
https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=ti_home_page&contextType=external&username=string&password=secure_string&challenge_url=https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/login/techinfo&request_id=6841849349380041924&authn_try_count=0&locale=en_US&resource_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%2F

These trucks aren't complicated, mostly, and are very reliable. You can pay anywhere from $1000 to $25,000; what you pay is entirely up to you. I've owned every model, except the FJ55, and this one has been my favorite since it was introduced.

A. Maybe, probably. I described the entire system for you. So did @Rifleman.
B. Maybe. Can't tell from here. Usually it's low refrigerant that is the problem. Could be a belt. (loose or missing)
C. Don't know what you're asking. Land Cruisers have engine coolant based heating systems. If the cooling system integrity is good, the heater should work. Hot water is cycled through the heater core, behind the dash, and a fan blows air across it. That's all there is to it. If the cooling system is OK and the heater doesn't work, the valve needs to be replaced. It's on the center of the firewall, in the engine bay; takes 10 minutes.
(immediately above the blue topped part in the photo)
D. Yes. Yes. No.
E. Big black tube; runs from the air cleaner to the throttle body. Yes. Yes; don't know.
(looks kind of brown here, but it's black)
View attachment 1643565
F. Yes, but you have to remove the head. If there is coolant in the oil, the head gasket is definitely leaking. I've never worried about it.
G. Yes. Do it yourself, the tools are $30. Take pictures and save yourself the cost of pen and paper.
View attachment 1643568
H. No. One of my 80s has 260k on it. The shocks are gone (they're the originals), and I can jump up and down all I want. The chassis never bounces. You can drive it and tell the ride is not as smooth as it was when it was new.
I. The VIN label, on the driver's door describes the options. The next to last line (on one of mine) looks like this:
View attachment 1643572
C/TR: color/trim
045 = white, FN41 = brown fabric seats and door panel inserts (LB41 is brown leather)
A/TM: axle/transmission
K292 = open differentials, front and rear (K294 would be electrically locked differentials)
A343F = transmission model code (4-speed automatic)
FZJ80L-GNPEKA: frame type (US spec with lift up rear door and tailgate)

hi malleus.

thanks. i really, really appreciate it. reading helps but talking reinforces it in a way that makes it understandable.

can i ask if there’s is an online VIN decoder i can rely on? or is there a good source for translating the VIN. i know 10th digit is year but deciding the VIN is usually on my list. i also think i could call it in to toyota/lexus but doing it myself would be nice. from the sounds of it the VIN will only tell me so much and for lockers (or other items) i will have to rely on the door tag and visual inspection.

on the birfields (different from the F/R lockers i guess) - if i DO see grease or oil they have a problem is that right but if i don’t dee grease there still may be a problem.

slee says to check to see if a radiator has been replaced as indication that there had been previous overheating. is he bringing this up as an indication of potentially bad engine wear?

blown head gasket will show low compression reading(s?) but won’t show visible leak? or it will show a visible leak if it is really badly blown? coolant in the oil is just another way to see if it is leaking?

THANK YOU

jon

 

[DirtScaresMe]

I got $1000 off my truck $4000->$3000 because it had a valve gasket leak and I told the guy it was the head gasket and would cost me a fortune.

To be fair, I had no idea it was just the valve gasket at the time so I technically wasn't lying.

 

[roadstr6]

I looked at a K294 locked LX450 a few months ago. CEL was on. Lockers didn't work. Both common 80 issues. Owner kept calling it a Toyota Jeep. He didn't know jack about the truck. When I explained that these two issues could be cheap fixes or really expensive fixes, I offered him $4000 for the truck. He was asking $8K. He just laughed at me. I told him that if he fixed the issues, we could renegotiate the price. He was too lazy and/or incompetent to look into the fixes. A month later, he called me and told me to come get the truck for $4000.

 

[Malleus]

thanks. appreciate the input. every time in the past i’ve run my tacoma around to the back of the dealer for brought my tacoma


hi malleus.

thanks. i really, really appreciate it. reading helps but talking reinforces it in a way that makes it understandable.

can i ask if there’s is an online VIN decoder i can rely on? or is there a good source for translating the VIN. i know 10th digit is year but deciding the VIN is usually on my list. i also think i could call it in to toyota/lexus but doing it myself would be nice. from the sounds of it the VIN will only tell me so much and for lockers (or other items) i will have to rely on the door tag and visual inspection.

on the birfields (different from the F/R lockers i guess) - if i DO see grease or oil they have a problem is that right but if i don’t dee grease there still may be a problem.

slee says to check to see if a radiator has been replaced as indication that there had been previous overheating. is he bringing this up as an indication of potentially bad engine wear?

blown head gasket will show low compression reading(s?) but won’t show visible leak? or it will show a visible leak if it is really badly blown? coolant in the oil is just another way to see if it is leaking?

THANK YOU

jon

There's nothing in the VIN you need, that you don't already know, unless you are the kind of guy who refolds roadmaps.

Yes, the Birfield joint is not the differential lock. One is the steering knuckle, the other is the differential. The inboard surface of the ball should be greasy, if it's been driven, not oily (there's a seal in the knuckle separating the differential gear oil from the knuckle grease). If it has been sitting for awhile, it might be dry. No way to tell without pulling the plug and checking the grease level. For me, driving the truck would be enough to tell me what I wanted to know.

I replaced my radiator because I broke the number 3 bypass hose nipple (I'm not the only one's who's done this). I wouldn't rely on a new radiator to tell me much, all by itself.

Compression tests are typically performed to identify the piston ring and valve seal wear. Read up on ICE theory and operation. A head gasket leak will affect compression, but I wouldn't look there first. Failing seeing steam in the exhaust, contaminated oil is the best indication of head gasket problems, IMO.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I looked at a K294 locked LX450 a few months ago. CEL was on. Lockers didn't work. Both common 80 issues. Owner kept calling it a Toyota Jeep. He didn't know jack about the truck. When I explained that these two issues could be cheap fixes or really expensive fixes, I offered him $4000 for the truck. He was asking $8K. He just laughed at me. I told him that if he fixed the issues, we could renegotiate the price. He was too lazy and/or incompetent to look into the fixes. A month later, he called me and told me to come get the truck for $4000.

nice. i like these stories. so locked 294 implies /someone/ (i guess before the PO?) put in the lockers aftermarket?

also, at first i was thinking it was sort of weird that toyota wouldn’t show factory lockers in the VIN? i mean, VIN shows everything else about the vehicle for the most part. i guess it was just that VIN is pre-codes and there is no space in their dfor drivetrain or something.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

There's nothing in the VIN you need, that you don't already know, unless you are the kind of guy who refolds roadmaps.

Yes, the Birfield joint is not the differential lock. One is the steering knuckle, the other is the differential. The inboard surface of the ball should be greasy, if it's been driven, not oily (there's a seal in the knuckle separating the differential gear oil from the knuckle grease). If it has been sitting for awhile, it might be dry. No way to tell without pulling the plug and checking the grease level. For me, driving the truck would be enough to tell me what I wanted to know.

I replaced my radiator because I broke the number 3 bypass hose nipple (I'm not the only one's who's done this). I wouldn't rely on a new radiator to tell me much, all by itself.

Compression tests are typically performed to identify the piston ring and valve seal wear. Read up on ICE theory and operation. A head gasket leak will affect compression, but I wouldn't look there first. Failing seeing steam in the exhaust, contaminated oil is the best indication of head gasket problems, IMO.

thanks for the help here malleus.

 

[baldilocks]

The door sticker will read “K294” at the bottom if it has lockers and “K292” if not.

 

[Malleus]

^this