LCA cam movement (and body mount replacement)

[bloc]

Yep I bought ‘em from Serra Toyota in Decatur, AL during the 25% off sale. OEM.

It’s entirely likely they were installed wrong. It’s just a question of what was wrong. Wouldn’t shock me if they were initially tightened in the air, then the alignment guy loosened the bolt, adjusted, and retightened. But would that cause so much play. I thought the main reason to tighten on the ground was because it tweaks the bushings less… not necessarily because there would be a gap.

I trust the shop I’m going to tuesday to figure this out, but I want to understand the issue. i should have gone there first but he’s normally swamped and he’s in an inconvenient location and I didn’t want to wait 2 or 3 weeks for an appointment. Right now my main concern is whether it’s ok to drive there about 40 minutes away. It’s been like this for a few hundred miles so I guess so…

You're fine to drive that far.. just pay attention for oscillation that could lead to a wobble or anything.

The issue with torquing the bushings with the suspension dropped out is they then get twisted up at normal ride height, and on compression can go past their expected range of motion. This can tear the rubber. I'd be surprised if that happened in the time between install and alignment, but depending on what adjustment at each bushing was needed for the alignment not all of them may have been loosened.

Is this happening on all 4 bushings? or only one or two?

 

[TheBussman]

if tightened at full droop they can tear when the car is let back down off the lift because the bushing is being over-extended past it's designed travel/rotation

 

[linuxgod]

Is this happening on all 4 bushings? or only one or two?

I think all 4 are moving but it might just be the rear ones. I need to clip my phone somewhere to see the front. my mechanic buddy checked them all and tried to retorque the front. I just say the rear one move and said “bingo” without trying to look at all 4 myself

 

[RTaylor]

I had new LCAs put on recently. The shop that did them did an alignment afterwards. That was 3 weeks ago, IIRC. I've noticed some popping noises, which are getting worse.

I just resolved a similar issue. I believe my alignment shop didn't torque the LCA properly, which led to loose steering and noises as the bolt loosened over time. After a proper torque, she's as quiet and solid as before.

 

[Boston Mangler]

Woh, this is an interesting one.

Based on video, the amount of play, and the fact the cams are NOT moving, i dont even think a very loose bolt would allow that much play, the metal sleeve in the bushings would hold it somewhat in line, those are moving A LOT.

I dont think this is a loose bolt issue.

Are the metal sleeves inside the bushings? Them missing is the only thing i can think of that would allow that much play.

But from what i recall, those sleeves are part of the bushings and dont come out. But could be wrong.

Curious what ya find,

 

[bloc]

But from what i recall, those sleeves are part of the bushings and dont come out. But could be wrong.

You aren’t wrong. And those sleeves are very, very solidly molded in there.

Anyone that has tried to push a 200-series LCA down to remove a strut, without loosening the bolts so they don’t alter the alignment, can back that up.

This movement should not be happening if the bushings are in good shape.

 

[linuxgod]

Woh, this is an interesting one.

Based on video, the amount of play, and the fact the cams are NOT moving, i dont even think a very loose bolt would allow that much play, the metal sleeve in the bushings would hold it somewhat in line, those are moving A LOT.

I dont think this is a loose bolt issue.

Are the metal sleeves inside the bushings? Them missing is the only thing i can think of that would allow that much play.

But from what i recall, those sleeves are part of the bushings and dont come out. But could be wrong.

Curious what ya find,

I don’t know how to tell aside from removing the LCA, but the big metal washers or whatever they are which are part of the bushing are on there. I can snap a pic of that later today.

 

[linuxgod]

Driver rear cam

Driver front cam

Passenger rear cam

passenger front cam

 

[linuxgod]

I would be very curious to see someone else mount a camera pointed at the rearmost cam and then do a couple quick forward-back stop-starts to see how if there normally is any movement at all in the LCA, aside from the typical pivoting. Does the bushing flex forward and backwards at all?

 

[OregonLC]

Hate to say it, but I think you need to drop the LCA back down and take a look.

 

[doru]

I would be very curious to see someone else mount a camera pointed at the rearmost cam and then do a couple quick forward-back stop-starts to see how if there normally is any movement at all in the LCA, aside from the typical pivoting. Does the bushing flex forward and backwards at all?

I thought about that, but I have no way of attaching a phone under the truck.

 

[linuxgod]

I thought about that, but I have no way of attaching a phone under the truck.

Yeah I happened to have a clip on phone mount/holder I use when playing guitar, and I was able to clip that to the frame at the body mount but others might not be so fortunate. I’m hoping someone who views this thread can get a shot of theirs so I can at least confirm if the alignment shop loosens and retorques that any future lateral movement is ok. Or at least confirm that the bushing is toast

 

[linuxgod]

Hate to say it, but I think you need to drop the LCA back down and take a look.

Probably. I’ll see what the shop says when they look tomorrow morning. He works solely on race cars and lifted trucks.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have to look up the parts but my hunch is these were installed without the internal metal sleeves or something? Hoping @bloc or @TeCKis300 or someone can confirm/deny

Just getting back from a trip.

I do not believe there are additional sleeves or washers these could be installed without. They are all pressed and bonded as part of the LCA assembly. Additional hardware would be part of the bolt and alignments cams, external to joint.

It's possible, but I would find it really hard to believe they could have screwed up the install enough to damage the LCAs this quickly. They are extremely robust components. Though it may be worth resetting the clocking of the bushings if you suspect they did that wrong at all. Usually the alignment will take care of that, as they will need to untorque and retorque to adjust the LCAs, with the rig on its own weight on the alignment rack.

I don't find the movement of the arms particularly alarming honestly. The rear LCA bushing in particular tends to be pretty compliant on most OEM designs. I'm not sure I have the equipment, but I can try to get a video for you later.

I would suspect aftermarket components and maybe that UCA balljoint.

 

[bloc]

200k mile bushings.

 

[linuxgod]

200k mile bushings.

Thank you. I definitely have more movement than that, but I’m actually also surprised how much movement there is to begin with.

 

[linuxgod]

Just getting back from a trip.

I do not believe there are additional sleeves or washers these could be installed without. They are all pressed and bonded as part of the LCA assembly. Additional hardware would be part of the bolt and alignments cams, external to joint.

It's possible, but I would find it really hard to believe they could have screwed up the install enough to damage the LCAs this quickly. They are extremely robust components. Though it may be worth resetting the clocking of the bushings if you suspect they did that wrong at all. Usually the alignment will take care of that, as they will need to untorque and retorque to adjust the LCAs, with the rig on its own weight on the alignment rack.

I don't find the movement of the arms particularly alarming honestly. The rear LCA bushing in particular tends to be pretty compliant on most OEM designs. I'm not sure I have the equipment, but I can try to get a video for you later.

I would suspect aftermarket components and maybe that UCA balljoint.

View attachment 3636361

There’s definitely decent movement. My KDSS arm is super shiny right now, despite the caster supposedly being 0.2deg less than it was when I brought the truck in the shop to have the LCA done. And *something* is clearly popping each time I stop and start, or put the truck off camber entering my garage or a driveway. When my wife tells me she’s hearing noises, I know it’s loud. Guess I’ll see what he turns up tomorrow.

 

[linuxgod]

Minor update, alignment shop has the truck and will get it on the rack later this morning to take a look. He watched the video and said “oh man that’s a lot of play”. So yeah, confirmed officially that’s not normal. He’s going to loosen and see if the bushings are twisted up and then give me a call once he knows more

 

[TeCKis300]

Not from the same angle and I'm just shifting from Drive to Reverse while parked. 168k. In low range to get a bit more torque on the LCAs.

Will be interested to see what you find.

 

[linuxgod]

Ok so alignment is done. Caster was off by a ton (~2 degrees) but given my mechanic buddy and I had tried to tighten the cam bolts further and we could see the cams start to move I'm not surprised they were off. He loosened everything, tried to reset the bushings, and readjusted. Caster is around 3.3, camber 0.0.

That video is interesting. I had (have) more "rapid" lateral play, but I'm in 4Hi, not 4Lo, and I'm very quickly hitting the gas and then the brake hard, so my lateral flex is about the worst I think that would happen.

After my realignment I still have some lateral play, but not as much as I did before. I still have some noise but it's back to a very specific scenario where it pops, which is basically when weight gets loaded/unloaded from the body. I am leaning towards issues with the body mounts as I noticed a couple weeks ago the driver's front top mount is basically collapsed, and the front passengers side seems to have a bit of a lean to it. I can't see the upper parts of the mounts anywhere else but at one point driving home I felt a vibration under my left foot which was on the floor when I heard one of those noises, so my gut says there's some sort of bolt/sleeve/mount contact going on. I have a pair of upper front mounts on order from Impex. If I can figure out how to swap them, and the noise gets at all better, I'll likely go buy all the rest of the mounts and go to town.