LCA cam movement (and body mount replacement)

[linuxgod]

I had new LCAs put on recently. The shop that did them did an alignment afterwards. That was 3 weeks ago, IIRC. I've noticed some popping noises, which are getting worse. Took a look under the truck when going from gas-to-brake (or vice versa) with a mechanic buddy and we can see the LCA moving between the frame mounts. It's enough that the rear most driver's side mount definitely moves slightly. We put it up on his lift and put a 2'+ wrench on them (with another on the nut) but the bolts seem to be tight.

I guess I'm wondering:

1. These should go to 207 ft lbs, but if the LCA has been moving a bit do these need to be tightened more to "straighten" them if they've spread slightly?
2. Is there some other reason they would be tight but yet the brand new arms would move?

 

[OregonLC]

Did they put the correct bolt back in? Correct end orientation?

FWIW, I had Les Schwab do an alignment on the 100 a year ago and they failed to tighten the UCA bolts. Similar noise experience. The forward PS UCA bolt wasn't even hand tight.

 

[Moby]

I wouldn't over torque them, stripping those threads seems like a disaster. If they really are torqued to spec there is something else wrong that more torque is unlikely to fix. That said, to get them torqued to spec it took my 2'+ torque wrench and my feet braced to get proper torque so maybe they aren't really to spec.

 

[doru]

Just untorque them and torque to specs and see if it solves the problem. Don't just torque them more.

 

[linuxgod]

My local mechanic torqued the front and they seemed tight. I’d try myself but I’m not sure I’ll have anywhere near the leverage required lying under the truck though.

I have an alignment appointment set up at my preferred pro shop for Tuesday. I’m sure he’ll sort it out.

 

[bloc]

Very few places will torque these to spec. My preferred alignment place, which is quite good, was very surprised to hear how high the specified value is.

Also even if the mounting ears had spread the clamping force from these bolts at torque is easily enough to put them back into place. I agree with the others that say to loosen and tighten then see whether the noise abates.

Lastly, it is possible that the bolts have galled and aren't clamping correctly at the given torque. I had one seize up so bad it broke the square section of my 1/2" breaker bar trying to get the nut off the bolt.. I ended up having to cut it. And this is on a pretty rust-free rig.

 

[LX4x4]

Are we talking about a bolt that is supposed to be torqued with the vehicle suspension on the ground? easy to do this on an alignment lift.

 

[linuxgod]

Very few places will torque these to spec. My preferred alignment place, which is quite good, was very surprised to hear how high the specified value is.

Also even if the mounting ears had spread the clamping force from these bolts at torque is easily enough to put them back into place. I agree with the others that say to loosen and tighten then see whether the noise abates.

Lastly, it is possible that the bolts have galled and aren't clamping correctly at the given torque. I had one seize up so bad it broke the square section of my 1/2" breaker bar trying to get the nut off the bolt.. I ended up having to cut it. And this is on a pretty rust-free rig.

I'd given the torque specs to the original shop, and I did check the shock and sway bar bolts and they were good. It's hard for me to get good leverage for 207 ft lbs lying under the truck just on jack stands but I just gave it a shot and my clicky wrench seemed to indicate they were tight.

I guess I should go back to the start and ask this question first: is it normal for the LCA to shift forward and back within the mounting points? There's definitely some movement, which I'm assuming is not normal but maybe it is given they are rubber bushings? If it's not normal, but the bolts are tight and the arms were just replaced, is there any obvious explanation for this movement?

I suppose there's a chance the UCA balljoints are bad again. They only have 16k miles on them so that seems unlikely though.

I'm not sure what else would make the telltale pop/clunk when starting from a stop or when going from the gas onto the brake around town... basically whenever the weight shifts forward or backward or sometimes on a turn?

I have a pro alignment/suspension shop looking at it Tuesday...

 

[LX4x4]

I would say no it shouldn't move front and back. When I replace shocks on a GX I think it's similar.. the sway bar is disconnected and obviously shocks are out. I pull down with a pry bar but never noticed it wanted to move front and back. With more things connected it is even more restrictive to movement.
Maybe the bushing is torn... might have to take it back out and look at it. The LC has large suspension travel and I would make an effort to tighten the control arms on the ground.

 

[bloc]

Can you get video of this movement within the mounts? Other than bushing flex I wouldn’t expect any movement if the bolts are tight.

 

[linuxgod]

 

[Artie]

I’m a total idiot when it comes to suspensions (I’m currently working to get better on this front) but even I can see that something just ain’t right about that!

 

[linuxgod]

I have to look up the parts but my hunch is these were installed without the internal metal sleeves or something? Hoping @bloc or @TeCKis300 or someone can confirm/deny

 

[nwfl4runner]

I think that bushing is blown out. I can’t tell but compare it to other side, I think you’ll see the cam stuff is there

 

[doru]

That is a lot of movement at relatively light forces applied. You may be into something.

 

[linuxgod]

I think that bushing is blown out. I can’t tell but compare it to other side, I think you’ll see the cam stuff is there

Could be. The arms are new and have less than 500 miles on them though

 

[nwfl4runner]

Could be. The arms are new and have less than 500 miles on them though

Ugh - I’d mark alignment and yank the cams - make sure they are there - if not hopefully bushing will be ok - 500 miles probably hasn’t screwed it too bad

 

[bloc]

No way those bushings are blown already. That has to be installed incorrectly.

Edit: looking at the diagrams I don't see how they could be assembled wrong. Personally I'd want those taken apart to ensure they are assembled correctly..

These are Genuine Toyota arms? Not aftermarket? Makes me want to go out and see how much mine move with 200k on them.

Edit 2: @linuxgod is it possible they were torqued with the suspension dropped out?

 

[linuxgod]

No way those bushings are blown already. That has to be installed incorrectly.

Edit: looking at the diagrams I don't see how they could be assembled wrong. Personally I'd want those taken apart to ensure they are assembled correctly..

These are Genuine Toyota arms? Not aftermarket? Makes me want to go out and see how much mine move with 200k on them.

Edit 2: @linuxgod is it possible they were torqued with the suspension dropped out?

Yep I bought ‘em from Serra Toyota in Decatur, AL during the 25% off sale. OEM.

It’s entirely likely they were installed wrong. It’s just a question of what was wrong. Wouldn’t shock me if they were initially tightened in the air, then the alignment guy loosened the bolt, adjusted, and retightened. But would that cause so much play. I thought the main reason to tighten on the ground was because it tweaks the bushings less… not necessarily because there would be a gap.

I trust the shop I’m going to tuesday to figure this out, but I want to understand the issue. i should have gone there first but he’s normally swamped and he’s in an inconvenient location and I didn’t want to wait 2 or 3 weeks for an appointment. Right now my main concern is whether it’s ok to drive there about 40 minutes away. It’s been like this for a few hundred miles so I guess so…

 

[hdj105]

Hi, I’m keen to hear what they find here.
The OE arms appear to come assembled with the bushes, and the yellow match mark visible on the arm/bush flange suggests that someone (I.e.Toyota) has assembled the bushes in the correct orientation (assuming the rubber has voided areas).
But boy there appears to be some flex in those bushes, I don’t believe it’s related to the cam bolts.The bushes have the centre sleeve moulded into them, which is why sometimes the cam bolt sleeves have been known corrode making alignment adjustment or removal difficult.