LC200 vs Power Wagon (9 Viewers)

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May 8, 2016
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Location
NM
Currently shopping for a new vehicle once I return to the States from being stationed overseas. Currently driving an 80 series 4.2 diesel. We've previously owned a tundra, 2 4Runners, and Ram 2500. Main use would be for overlanding, hunting, and some occasional towing.

I'm currently looking at 2016-17 LCs and a 2022 Ram 2500 Power Wagon. Both are about the same price 68-70K. I really am leaning towards the LC but the idea of spending the same amount of money on a vehicle that has 50-60K miles vs one that has 0 miles is tough. On paper they both are very capable. The Toyota will probably hold better value over time but given the current market, everything is outrageous. I know this is an LC Forum, but I'm looking for honest opinions.
 
The reason a used cruiser costs the same as a new Power Wagon is it’ll be on the road long after the ram is falling apart.

And yes, I’m a fan of cruisers but objectively these are the longest lasting vehicles available to Americans, and also pretty nice to drive.

They do have different uses.. the power wagon (if memory serves) loses some of the heavy load capability typical of a 2500 ram, but still is intended to be used differently. Given their substantial differences I’d focus on which will do what you want better, but also realize the cost difference is there for a reason.
 
These are 2 very different vehicles. One is a huge full sized 3/4 ton truck. The other is an SUV that is shorter then a 1/2 ton.

If you don’t do technical trails the Ram will be good. If you do technical trails the Ram will be cumbersome and huge, in its shortest bed it is ~3.5’ longer then a 200 series.
 
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I totally agree a used car vs new is tough, but the 200 is so high quality if you find the right one it will feel like that for years to come. You have to decide whether the new car smell is worth more.

I’ve had new cars and both of my used 200s have been my favorites.
 
Wait a year and both will be half price of what they are today.

Outside of that, make a list of your desired "uses" and how many days/year you will do each activity. When you're done, your actual needs will be clear, and that'll guide your choice.
 
-No permanent 4wd/awd in the power wagon
-No 3rd row in power wagon
-200 series is a “midsized” wheelbase vs long on the power wagon…pw will be worse on most trails but probably tow better
-6.4 hemi, IMO, isn’t a bad engine but it’ll tend to be the case that the Toyota 5.7 will be more reliable.
-likely less sound deadening material in power wagon
-solid front axle will never ride as nicely on the road as a good independent front suspension.
 
Don’t get hung up on the Land Cruiser mileage, it could be 3 times as many miles and, if properly maintained, more reliable than the Ram.

For me this would come down to do I want to do truck stuff or not… there is no good substitute for a truck bed. Sure, I can get by with a trailer and the LC but if I wanna haul around dirt bikes and tow a camper at the same time then it’s truck.
 
You clearly came here for evidence that paying the same price as a brand new powerwagon for something older and with 50k+ miles is a better financial decision to help convince your other half lol.

200 won't have all the tech and gizmos the powerwagon has, but like everyone here has said long term the 200 will be smarter and won't have issues with any of the things that'll go wrong on the Ram.
 
I don't know if you will find anyone on the Ram site who sold a Landcruiser or LX570 and bought a Ram.
 
I worked with a guy in that late 90s who had a short bed power wagon from the late 70s or early 80s. He loved that truck. It got like 8 mpg, but he was never selling, and did a bunch of what we’d call over landing now with it.
He had added a spare fuel tank, and was happy as could be with it.
It was nothing like a 200 for comfort, but it was pretty easy to fix when it broke, and it would go anywhere you pointed it.
 
Have owned a 2018 Ram Powerwagon, 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser, and currently own a 2017 Lexus LX570 (wife’s ride). (My current ride is 2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. It flat out depends on what you want to use the vehicle for. I regret getting rid of my powerwagon. It was awesome. Having a truck bed is nice and convenient. We used it for multiple long trips. There is flat out more room in the cab than any of the 200 series. Third row is good for only young kids at best. But that comes with a price. The 200 is going to be easier to maneuver on tight trails. Reliability, we haven’t had any problems with any of them. The engines in both of these have been around a while. If you are going to tow anything significantly heavy, get a diesel Ram 2500. Bottom line, layout your desired uses and let that be the guide for choosing between the two. Hit me up if you have further questions.
 
Don’t have time for a full reply at the moment, but feel free to message me if you want the full rundown of my experience.

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What are your needs do they fit an SUV or Truck better.
Do you need to carry people or carry you and one other.
Do you need truck bed for work or home use more than interior space of an SUV (trailer can make up for lack of bed but you have to store and maintain it).
Do you need to tow more than 8000lbs or tow on a regular basis.
Just a few of cases I can think of for pro/cons list.

I have always owned a truck just some things are easier to do with truck.. I however use my LC for almost everything except going kayak fishing, lowes, garden center, etc... type trips.

If you are thinking of buying an LC because it is just a large 3 row SUV don't bother. If you are buying it because you expect to still be driving it 15+ years from know then it just might be vehicle for you. Tons of reasons not to own one and you will see them posted all over this forum: gas mileage, lack of latest tech s***, cost of repairs and parts, difficulty finding a decent Toyota dealer to work on it if your not DIY mechanic.

I bought mine to carry me and my wife. I bought it and expect it to last me 20+ years. I bought it so I can go where I want when I want and get back. I bought mine to pull my fishing boat about 3000lb and eventually a 25 to 27 foot trailer at 7500lb or less. I bought it because I know what it is and most folks just think its and oversized highlander. I plan to leave mine stock other than tires. So far I am happy as I can be. I pull that boat once or twice a month. I have done 2500+ mile road trips. I have taken it to off road park and wandered around. I have run it up and down Texas beaches. It does everything very well. It is quite, comfortable, goes down the road very well.

Never owned a RAM so got no input for you on that count.
Good Luck with what ever you choose.
 
I've owned both, unless you need the bed get the 200.
 
Looks like @jrmudder92 unloaded his 200 in favor of a new Power Wagon. Maybe twist his ear a bit.

 
Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic trucks and if I were to add another truck it'd be a hard toss up between another PW and the Godzilla motor F-250 Tremor. They are known for transmission issues, both the older 6-speed and the new 8-speed and they won't compare to the build quality of the 200.
 
Looks like @jrmudder92 unloaded his 200 in favor of a new Power Wagon. Maybe twist his ear a bit.


I'm strongly considering doing the opposite. As they say, YMMV.
 
I'm strongly considering doing the opposite. As they say, YMMV.

Power Wagon for 200? That's what I did, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding another PW in the future. That said, if they were selling the new 300 Series Land Cruiser here in the states then we wouldn't be having this convo and there'd be one in the garage next to our 200.
 
Power Wagon for 200? That's what I did, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding another PW in the future. That said, if they were selling the new 300 Series Land Cruiser here in the states then we wouldn't be having this convo and there'd be one in the garage next to our 200.
[Sorry if TLDR, but here's the full Monty discussion]

Right now we have a 75th Anniversary (2021) Power Wagon on 35s with an AT Summit buildout (see Insta feed for pics), a 2013 Land Cruiser (Mud Avatar image), and a 2004 LX 470. And three kids and a dog. We wanted more space than the 200 which the Ram certainly gives, but it's not a perfect solution. At least not for our missions. The truck can handle five of us for short trips by maxes out on longer ventures. Yeah, we could pack less stuff but the truck gets full fast. To solve that we've been running a two-vehicle (Ram + 200) convoy but that's sixteen cylinders to feed and I don't get to sit next to my wife. $200 fill-ups for the caravan add up.

We operate in three modes: mode 1) me + dog (or + one kid). mode 2) full family + dog. mode 3) full family + kid friend + dog. The only way I can solve all three of those is with a third-row SUV plus a trailer. With something like an Xpedition Voyager we can sleep two on top of the 200, two inside the trailer, and 2-4 on top of the trailer. And without the need to have a ground tent (which then require cots/sleeping pads, etc.). My current game plan is to reconfigure the back of the 200 to skinny up the drawers and allow the semi-permanent rear seats to stay in place. When solo, the drawers stay in and it's just the truck. For all other missions its truck + trailer, either with or without drawers depending upon pax count.

The other big consideration is trail presence. I live at 4,200 ft in the Deschutes National Forest. Mountains and forest service roads abound. My most common trip is to find a peak on a map and try to figure out how to get there. The 200 works great in that mission. The best sites are the ones hardest to get to. The Ram often fails due to width or turning radius. A tight turn-around for the 200 on a shelf road is a no-go in the Ram, requiring a long back-up. Not the end of the world but time consuming. And to be fair, this problem would be compounded with a trailer, but when it's the whole gang we're going to known spots. Recon missions are just me and the boy or me and a buddy. And turning the Ram is compounded when in 4WD. Those published turning circles are for 2WD. Try locking your center and doing tight turns. Same for any other SUV or truck without a center diff. This ended up being a bigger deal for my use than I had imagined. ATRAC and full-time 4WD are much more practical in real-world use than F/R lockers and the swaybar disconnect in the Ram.

And not to get off topic, but the base LX 600 is essentially a two row LC 300. No AHC. No third row. Very similar to what we had with the 2020 Heritage. And at 'only' $88k priced very similarly to the outgoing Land Cruiser. We'd definitely consider that over the new Sequoia if it had row numero tres. You need to move up to the $96k price point to get a third row in the LX 600, diminishing the value proposition for us. Most likely, we'll re-home the Power Wagon, keep the 200 as the 'Overlander', keep the 100 as the 'mule', and then eventually put a new Sequoia in a stall as the family mover. Captains chairs in the middle are another big win for the Seq.

Lastly, the 2004 100 (or 'The Mule' as we fondly refer to it as) has found great service as the 'get it done' rig. Ski bus. Home Depot hauler. Dump runs. Whatever. It's big and (relatively) light. And with 172k on the clock it's not a show queen. Nice to have one horse that can be ridden hard and put away wet. Often times literally on both.

I will say, the Ram is incredibly nice to ride in. Quite. Smooth (at least for a 3/4 ton). Fantastic audio system. Great seats. Etc. The engine is definitely less refined (as is any pushrod mill) and there's also the need to disable MDS with every trip to save the cams (read up on 'Hemi Tick'). But the 'Zed-F' 8-speed is a jewel of a trans and I've had only a single problem in 24,900 miles which was to replace an $8 outside temp sensor. On snow, the 20" extra wheelbase and extra weight make it super stable. Mountain pass travel in any weather is a non-event. I cross the Cascade range summits 60-80 times a year (!!) (30-40 round-trips). Add in 20+ ski days last year and my life is a lot about frozen road time. I've really appreciated the Ram for this. Not that I've ever had a problem with the 200 (or the 100) in the snow, it's just a more 'hands on' experience with a smaller SUV. Capable, but a bit more user participation required. Where sometimes I can feel the 200 getting a little loose, the long Ram drives white roads like it's on dry. Which is true for any other long-wheelbase vehicle. And the AT3W 35's seem perfect for the size/weight of the truck.

In an ideal world we'd have many vehicles, each an expert in their own domain. The real-world doesn't allow this. After living with the Ram for the last 18 months I'm just not sure the things it's really good at has the best alignment with what we need to ask it to do. I think if I were to draw a Venn diagram showing the overlapping circles of our mission needs with the two trucks the 200 would have more shaded area in the middle. Not a perfect solution, but possibly a better solution. Jury is still out, but that's where we're leaning right now.
 
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