LC rated most reliable large SUV

[SWUtah]

I stand by my assertion that Consumer reports ratings are goofy. Read the criteria they use for rating cars sometime. They rate the number of failures, not the severity. Frankly I weigh a transmissiion much higher than a radio for example. Your best bet for getting the real scoop on a vehicle is to read carreview.com or another site listing actual owners stories. I've always had good results with reasearching cars that way, and you can actually find out what fails and when.
Sure you will hear more bad stories about domestic vehicles. But there are a lot more of them out there too, and many forget that. They still outsell Japan in trucks by a long shot. So of course you'll hear more bad stuff about them. I think the market had done a perfect job of setting a price for Toyotas. They cost a little more, and they are a little better. Its that simple.

The problem with "used" is just that used. When you buy used you don't really know how it was cared for. I too just bought a 99 with 58K miles. I spent the bucks with my local mechanic to change all fluids to synthetic's and change every rubber hose and belt on the LC including the timing belt. I may end up with other problems like the starter, manifold crack, etc. but it was a very clean AZ LC with no rust. even if I have all of the problems listed and pay retail to fix (which I won't) I will still have a LC for under $30K that is good for 200K+ miles and that is cheaper then any domestic SUV and it is a quality vehicle and looks like a new LC. I had a 95 FZJ80 and loved it, looks, quality and the fact it was a LC. It is just cool to own a LC and you can't get that from any other SUV. JMHO Rule I have read your other posts and it sounds like you got a LC that was from the rust belt and may have had some water damage, I feel for you but I don't think your ownership experience is normal. I hope you have found all your grimlins and they are fixed, but I know once you start having problems with a vehicle it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I had the same experience with a Porsche 928 S4, expensive and not fun. I think I finally fixed all the problems and then I traded it for a Lexus SC400 so someone else got to enjoy my 928

 

[rule303]

Well, it did have some rust but not that bad and definitely no water damage. And how do you abuse and neglect a vehicle to make the alternator go out, the throttle position sensor, cracked manifolds, and starter contacts??? I got a lemon thats all. It happens. But some of you ANTI Americans out there should really stop and think about what you are saying. Where do you think Toyota got most of the technology it uses? They really are not inovators, just good at taking existing technology and making it better. A lot of you guys are probably young, but read your history about the Japanese before you fall in love with them. Read "Flyboys" for the real scoop.
Where do you think most Toyotas are made now anyway? And do you really believe there is no input from Americans design and engineering wise? The difference is very simple. Domestics typically sacrifice some quality but give more features for the money. Its all where they choose to put the money. Plus the Japs don't have the unions to deal with like we do. The Land Cruiser costs $25,000 more than a comparably equipped Tahoe for example. It dang well should be better. I drove a new 4runner the other day. Decent, but nothing special. I could buy a full size Tahoe for the same money. The weasle Toyota salesman took my Land Cruiser keys to get a trade-in inspection and dissapeared for over 30 minutes after I saw the LC back in the parking lot. That was Toyota's way of doing business. Keep me waiting for 30 minutes. I think he thought he was playing some kind of mind game or something. I told him that kind of behavior was exactly why I wouldn't buy the car from him. They think their cars are so great they can treat people like crap and they'll still buy. Well its the drooling Toyota fans that encourage that crappy dealer service they are known for.
Stick to the facts. The fact is I got a lemon. These vehicels have common problems that can be a bit expensive to fix after 50k miles. Oh, I almost forgot, the $2000 master cylinder jobs these need when they fail. The casual buyer should be aware of these things. The "enthusiasts" are going to spend tons on upgrades anyway, so its no big deal to them.

 

[firetruck41]

I guess I'm not racist enough to understand why, if I prefer "Jap" Toyotas to Domestics, I am ANTI American? You intimate that Toyotas are designed and engineered using US influence, assembled in the US, yet if I like Toyotas I am ANTI American? I guess if you like German cars, you are anti semetic too I don't really care who makes 'em, all I know is my Toyotas have been top notch, even after 10-12 years.

My experience with Toyotas and Hondas have been great, so I love them, even though I have not owned many domestics, my family and friends have/do and I value their experiences as well, I still prefer Toyota vs. domestic if they both have a similar vehicle application.

To me car dealers are slimebags regardless of which brand they sell, so I don't put any stock in that when deciding which vehicle I want to buy, I don't put much stock in dealer service either, regardless of brand, other than warranty work I will probably never see the dealership after I buy a vehicle. So while it matters to you, it doesn't matter to me much at all.

 

[ff347]

To me car dealers are slimebags regardless of which brand they sell, so I don't put any stock in that when deciding which vehicle I want to buy, I don't put much stock in dealer service either, regardless of brand, other than warranty work I will probably never see the dealership after I buy a vehicle. So while it matters to you, it doesn't matter to me much at all.

I second that emotion!

I have owned a few domestics and got crappy service/warranty work there too! I (hate to admit this) purchased a new Dodge truck and the dealership and lack of quality convinced me I was a tool for trading my Toyota truck in on it! Never again!

Scott

I found this link and thought what the hell it applies here also!
http://www.hwysafety.org/brochures/...d_lux_util.html

 

[Jim_Chow]

[snip]
Where do you think most Toyotas are made now anyway? And do you really believe there is no input from Americans design and engineering wise? The difference is very simple. Domestics typically sacrifice some quality but give more features for the money. Its all where they choose to put the money.

Since I had the rare opportunity to work for a Japanese electronics manufacturer in Japan for a few years, I thought i'd chime in that they do have unions there, and they do have health care/pension expenses, too (the latter being the bigger cost). In fact, one is required to join the union when joining the company (not me, as i was a contract worker and a gaijin ). Anyways, a big difference is there is no animosity between the union and the management. In fact, the guy sitting next to me used to be the union leader. When I asked why they don't strike, he said if they did, they'd only get like $5/more per week, so it was pointless. Rather, it seems, the unions are there to plan social events, clubs, etc. I worked there in the late 90's when the economy was really down the tubes, bubble had burst years ago, etc. The company was in the red, but everyone (well, except me) had to take paycuts to avoid lay-offs. In fact, the managers took the biggest cuts...about 30%. All the managers entered the company straight out of college as engineers and worked their way up (they'd get transferred to all kinds of jobs. A guy in R&D might get sent to a factory for a few years to learn about production). The college grads all have to take entrance exams when applying for the company.

Anyways, a buddy of mine told me autoworkers got paid the most of any industry in Japan, more than software programmers, electrical engineers, etc. So they get the grads from the best universities. The guys on the assembly lines are college grads, and the managers all worked on those lines at some point. They have an attitude that "it has to be done this way." There's no "that's close enough" stuff.

When I was there, I took part in a opinion survey whereby the company had a few car audio head decks connected. They'd ask me to perform certain tasks and ask questions about the layout, "feel" of the button presses, etc. On the other hand, every domestic car I've driven has had jiggly buttons, cheap plastic, etc. Maybe I notice more because of tests like this, but I don't think US automakers are going into this kind of detail when designing the interior.

BTW, didn't the chairman of GM say they estimated it would have cost $200M to develop hybrid technology, and that in hindsight, they could have justified it as an advertising expense out of their $3 billion annual advertising budget? That's where all lot of their money is going.

One engineer that I worked with in the past used to work for GM. The guy is brilliant, helped them come up with a great design, but upper management canned it, saying it wouldn't sell/cost too much. He quit the company in disgust.

There's no question that this country performs among the best research in the world, but applying those research results to real life use is pretty poor, especially from university research-->production.

 

[a990dna]

I second that emotion!

I have owned a few domestics and got crappy service/warranty work there too! I (hate to admit this) purchased a new Dodge truck and the dealership and lack of quality convinced me I was a tool for trading my Toyota truck in on it! Never again!

I'm a diehard Dodge, Plymouth and GM fan, but only up to the early-seventies. I also bought a new Dodge truck, the thing was a POS.... they're built in Mexico now----the damn interior smelled like solvent. BIG mistake... I got rid of it!

Detroit has been out-of-touch with their core customers since the mid-70s.... everything they did well in the 60s and early-70s went out the window after they bought into the game on Wall Street. This isn't about designing eye-pleasing well-built quality vehicles, it's more about satisfying the stock holders, receiving bonus pay, and earned options up through the food chain.

And now they can't compete due to union wages and those generous pension and high cost healthcare plans...

I believe the big three are backed into a corner now. Ford has probably done more soul-searching to get back on track. I believe the others will struggle until they start offering something worth buying... and just in time for $3.00 per gallon gas.

Reminds me of the mid-70s.

 

[OGBeno]

Well, it did have some rust but not that bad and definitely no water damage. And how do you abuse and neglect a vehicle to make the alternator go out, the throttle position sensor, cracked manifolds, and starter contacts??? I got a lemon thats all. It happens. But some of you ANTI Americans out there should really stop and think about what you are saying. Where do you think Toyota got most of the technology it uses? They really are not inovators, just good at taking existing technology and making it better. A lot of you guys are probably young, but read your history about the Japanese before you fall in love with them. Read "Flyboys" for the real scoop.
Where do you think most Toyotas are made now anyway? And do you really believe there is no input from Americans design and engineering wise? The difference is very simple. Domestics typically sacrifice some quality but give more features for the money. Its all where they choose to put the money. Plus the Japs don't have the unions to deal with like we do. The Land Cruiser costs $25,000 more than a comparably equipped Tahoe for example. It dang well should be better. I drove a new 4runner the other day. Decent, but nothing special. I could buy a full size Tahoe for the same money. The weasle Toyota salesman took my Land Cruiser keys to get a trade-in inspection and dissapeared for over 30 minutes after I saw the LC back in the parking lot. That was Toyota's way of doing business. Keep me waiting for 30 minutes. I think he thought he was playing some kind of mind game or something. I told him that kind of behavior was exactly why I wouldn't buy the car from him. They think their cars are so great they can treat people like crap and they'll still buy. Well its the drooling Toyota fans that encourage that crappy dealer service they are known for.
Stick to the facts. The fact is I got a lemon. These vehicels have common problems that can be a bit expensive to fix after 50k miles. Oh, I almost forgot, the $2000 master cylinder jobs these need when they fail. The casual buyer should be aware of these things. The "enthusiasts" are going to spend tons on upgrades anyway, so its no big deal to them.

LC's are made in Japan and shipped in. LX's/GX's as well. They are not made domestically. Araco makes the chassis and frame for the LC/LX/GX.

And, yes, the early Japanese Bj model LC's in fact did copy American Jeeps (because that is what the American purchase order asked for). The original F/2F engines were a copy cat of American design.

But that was when American car manufactorer actually gave a crap about their products and their customers. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Which is why Japanese make the LC's better than their American counter parts.

FOr me, I'd rather spend more knowing I will get more in the long run.

That's just me though.

 

[carson7]

I believe Toyota gets a lot of mileage from the vehicles they put out during the 80's. I have had several toyotas in the past - and that 22R is about as simple and reliable as it gets. And on those earlier vehicles the little things didnt go wrong because they were so simple - there were no power antennas or power windows to worry about. You ever seen the door panel on a 85 toyota pickup - simple and functional!

You see the same thing from Honda motorcycle enthusiast. Almost a cult like following that refuses to acknowledge any problem, and when pressed states that "well you should expect some problems and these are not really big problems". A starter that leaves you stranded, throttle position sensor that freaks your wife out at a green light, and the other little issues - seat, antenna, etc - all at under 80k - I would put my experience right in line with any domestic, if it werent for the premium I paid for the LC.

I have to say that I am disappointed in the my LC experience, but having owned only one I cannot say that it is a pattern. I have owned 5 toyotas and will likely own more, but I doubt the LC will be one of them.

Carson

 

[tabraha]

Ah yes, the message board blues. It happens on every message board for every car out there. My ______ has had all of these problems, you guys are crazy for thinking that yours is any better. These vehicle have major flaws, we should petition, they should recall, what were they thinking! It happens for every new model car out there. The reality is that there are way more people that haven't had problems that have no need in posting. Who would be interested in, "guess what I drove my LC today and it did just fine, came home, sat in the recliner, had a beer and went to bed!"

Had a bad LC experience? That sucks, we are here to help get you through the problems. That doesn't affect the reality that it IS the best SUV out there, still. There is also the reality that you may have a subpar example of it! Even if every dissatified owner on this board (there aren't many comparitively speaking) refused to buy another LC, it would still have one of the highest %'s of repeat buyers of any model vehicle out there. Happy owners just don't post as much when there's just not much to post about!

 

[Steph23]

Well put, Tad

 

[FirstToy]

LC's are made in Japan and shipped in. LX's/GX's as well. They are not made domestically. Araco makes the chassis and frame for the LC/LX/GX.

.

Actually The GX/4R is made in Tahara. I read that the FJC would be made in Japan but I don't know where. I am going to assume Tahara as well.

Isn't Araco now making Prius?

 

[carson7]

.. the cult speaks! just kidding.. point well taken.

I may have just found a subpar unit. But for kicks try googling "landcruiser starter contacts" sometime..

None are perfect - and I think that was the point of my post - these machines, as fine as they are, have not delivered on my expectations - 100k miles of trouble free driving. In this very post folks are taking the time to bash domestics, and you can be sure somewhere someone has put 100K miles on a Tahoe with nary a problem. Do LC's have fewer issues per unit than the Tahoe - you betcha, but Tahoes dont bring 65k in my neck of the woods. Again, as I slowly back away, the LC is a great SUV, arguable the best made, but not without flaws, and ones which I hope that Toyota improves on.

But on a lighter not, I do appreciated this board. I have found it twice now when LC problems arose, and as others have mentioned the dealer network leaves much to be desired.

Carson

 

[firetruck41]

All vehicles have common problems, but those problems are not neccessarily common occurences

 

[alaskacruiser]

the ford ranger has been a collaboration with mazda for close to a decade now.
...
I think the Ford Ranger is the best example of an American vehicle being able to compete succesfully with the foreign maker's specialty of efficient, reliable, medium size vehicles. But is it competitive because of Ford or rather Mazda? Either way it sure helps Ford's showing in reliability studies.

Sorry, but you're only partially informed on this one. The Ford Ranger / Mazda B-Series is a "joint venture" vehicle only in the sense that Ford built the Ranger and then let Mazda rebadge it as a B-Series. Same with the GMC Envoy and Isuzu- Isuzu is only rebadging the vehicle.

More info:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mazda-b-series

 

[Jim_Chow]

It's clear that the achilles heel of any vehicle sold in this country these days is the electronics. You need one of THESE....

 

[b56tc]

Interesting thread
many models of SUVs are the baby boomers' station wagon - but you cannot call the AWD technology, stiffened frame, off road features such as lockers in a LC a lifted 4x4 station wagon.

I agree the real test is how often does it break? My term for this is from aviation, called "unexpected maintenance". I have put now a total of roughly 330K mi on LC frames; my unexpected maintenance items are exactly 2 power window motors and one dash rattle. Period. I cannot come close to 1/4th that record on the numerous GMs, Fords, and BMWs along the way.

Crappy dealerships aside (although no worse than any other brand except for BMW - great shops - and they need to be), Toyota has earned all the hype in my book.

.02 only

 

[ff347]

Ah yes, the message board blues. It happens on every message board for every car out there. My ______ has had all of these problems, you guys are crazy for thinking that yours is any better. These vehicle have major flaws, we should petition, they should recall, what were they thinking! It happens for every new model car out there. The reality is that there are way more people that haven't had problems that have no need in posting. Who would be interested in, "guess what I drove my LC today and it did just fine, came home, sat in the recliner, had a beer and went to bed!"

Had a bad LC experience? That sucks, we are here to help get you through the problems. That doesn't affect the reality that it IS the best SUV out there, still. There is also the reality that you may have a subpar example of it! Even if every dissatified owner on this board (there aren't many comparitively speaking) refused to buy another LC, it would still have one of the highest %'s of repeat buyers of any model vehicle out there. Happy owners just don't post as much when there's just not much to post about!

Damn, you have hit upon a great idea, a "Happy w/my LC" thread, and so well put! I nominate you for the voice of reason!


Let's be real it does not matter what you drive now, it is going to cost you out the ass to fix it yourself, or have it fixed by a mechanic. It will/would suck to have a starter go out on any vehicle, I did on my 1985 Honda Civic and at the time I was so damn poor I was sleeping in it! $185.00 dollars for a new one was so expensive I roll started it for a month to save the money to buy it! It is really a matter of perspective, you could pay $65.00 dollars a month to have your horses teeth filed if you want that route. Any time a vehicle has a problem it's a pain in the ass, but good God it is just a sign/product of our times.

Their is support here for problems, they happen. Hell half of the people on this site would drive an hour and get dirty just to help ANYONE on this site out.

 

[theRash]

Sorry, but you're only partially informed on this one. The Ford Ranger / Mazda B-Series is a "joint venture" vehicle only in the sense that Ford built the Ranger and then let Mazda rebadge it as a B-Series. Same with the GMC Envoy and Isuzu- Isuzu is only rebadging the vehicle.

More info:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mazda-b-series

Speaking of joint ventures. (plus this thread seemed to be the most appropriate thread to use because of the course its taken.)
--I have heard a rumor that the chevy duramax diesel was designed or joint-ventrured with Isuzu. --
( I have isuzu fans claiming this and I can't find any supporting evidence). Any one know? Or can point me to the source of the answer?
I doubt this claim but its not worth an argument unless I had the evidence disproving their claim. (its a friendly discussion). lol

 

[tabraha]

Sorry, but you're only partially informed on this one. The Ford Ranger / Mazda B-Series is a "joint venture" vehicle only in the sense that Ford built the Ranger and then let Mazda rebadge it as a B-Series. Same with the GMC Envoy and Isuzu- Isuzu is only rebadging the vehicle.

More info:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mazda-b-series

Maybe they are rebadged, I think that when a domestic company buys a major portion of a foreign car maker they do so with more than an intent of having them sell rebadged domestic product. They buy them for engineering and other utilizations of the companies braintrust. Sometimes they'll buy them like GM bought 49% of Isuzu, pillage their ideas and personell, and then sell their shares like GM did. It was quite a good deal for them. Buy Isuzu, get their goods, sell Isuzu as a company with much less going for them. Then let the market chew them up for a while and buy 12% of them back for cheap. If GM had been interested in only rebadging, perhaps they would have chosen not to retain all of the ownership rights to all Isuzu engine designs, which they now have.

There's another reason I wouldn't go quite as far as to say they are just rebadged. Crawl under a Chevy Colorado and guess what you'll see: A 2 speed t-case straight out of an Isuzu D-max truck. With Isuzu being about dead in the US they may be doing some serious rebadging but their parts are still in those products, which is their engineering, which was all I was pointing out.

As for the Ranger with over 33% of Mazda now belonging to Ford, I'd bet there was a little more collaboration than just simple rebadging there too. It is possible it is purely a Ranger but Ford has relied on Mazda plenty before which would make me believe that the Ranger had at least some influence from Mazda engineers. Look at the venerable but ugly 90's escorts that were based on the Mazda 323 platform. The Merc Tracer was basically a rebadged 323. The Ford Escape seems to be proving very popular as well, which is a collaboration with the Mazda Tribute and is based on the Mazda 626 platform. Don't forget about the Mazda 6, the peppy little sport sedan and platform of choice for the newly released Ford Fusion and 2 more Ford models soon to come. With so much Mazda knowledge being tapped into, I bet their engineers were at least a liitle involved in development of the Ranger.

 

[tabraha]

Speaking of joint ventures. (plus this thread seemed to be the most appropriate thread to use because of the course its taken.)
--I have heard a rumor that the chevy duramax diesel was designed or joint-ventrured with Isuzu. --
( I have isuzu fans claiming this and I can't find any supporting evidence). Any one know? Or can point me to the source of the answer?
I doubt this claim but its not worth an argument unless I had the evidence disproving their claim. (its a friendly discussion). lol

Yes, they are referring to alaskacruiser's source here